--- Log opened Sat Dec 26 00:00:56 2020 00:06 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnqvtyxcgioniauq] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:13 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:29 < nmz787> fenn: ok, but what source? 02:02 < fenn> nmz787 there are plenty of sources for this sort of data. the point is to show a worked example so you can make your own decisions. since the risk factors are different by orders of magnitude, the precise numbers don't matter 02:15 -!- Alchemical [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:16 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lnqvtyxcgioniauq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 02:17 -!- Alchemical [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has quit [K-Lined] 02:23 < fenn> http://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/03/COVID-CFR-by-age.png the case fatality rate went down over time by about 3-5x depending on which country you're in, either due to better testing or better medical procedures, so old graphs like this do not represent the current risks (which are lower) 02:24 < fenn> south korea's risks have remained about the same though 02:29 < nmz787> umm, yeah I don't think I'm convincing anyone with 9 month old stats 02:30 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:COVID-CFR-by-age-CN-KR-ES-IT-latest-nolegend.svg more recent data 02:36 < nmz787> hmm, ok, well that shows Italy is like 1/62.5 for under 49, but that's a stark contrast (or I'm being a real idiot) from these CDC data which seem to say 300k people have died in total (which being out of a total of 300M population, would be 1/1000) https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex 02:37 < nmz787> I guess 1000:62 is not that big of a jump compared to the others in your worked example tho 02:37 < nmz787> I was chatting with a friend who said he's starting to send his 2 y/o to daycare in a week 02:37 < fenn> these are case fatality rates, not infection fatality rates 02:38 < fenn> you have to be sick enough to go get tested before you become a case 02:38 < nmz787> but if you weren't sick enough, you wouldn't die? 02:38 < fenn> right 02:39 < fenn> do note that there are other consequences besides dying 02:39 < nmz787> I thought you were talking about covid-death statistics 02:39 < fenn> i am 02:39 < nmz787> "fatalities" 02:39 < nmz787> so why are you bringing "non [covid] case" into the picture? 02:39 < fenn> unfortunately that is all we have statistics for 02:40 < fenn> huh? 02:40 < fenn> i'm not talking about "non [covid] case" 02:40 < nmz787> case fatality vs infection fatality?? 02:40 < nmz787> I don't understand 02:41 < fenn> if you're infected with SARS-CoV-2 it doesn't always turn into a full blown case of COVID-19 02:41 < fenn> (i hate this terminology btw) 02:41 < nmz787> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgIRaO2FmcU 02:41 < nmz787> .title\ 02:41 < fenn> we can only measure "cases" because we don't know who has actually been infected 02:41 < nmz787> but if you don't get a full blown case, then you're not dying, and not adding to the fatalities stats 02:42 < fenn> if you want to know your personal risk, you look at what happens when you get infected 02:43 < fenn> your risk of dying is always going to be lower than the case fatality rate 02:43 < nmz787> but isn't this some sort of "less testing means less cases" sort of bogus logic? 02:44 < nmz787> I mean, if you get infected, why would your risk be any different whether you got tested or not 02:44 < fenn> it's not different 02:45 < fenn> i don't know man, it's just statistics 02:45 * nmz787 reads wikipedia on case fatality rate 02:45 < fenn> as testing goes up, CFR goes down 02:45 < fenn> there are also other things that complicate the picture, like improved medical care (or worsened as hospitals get overwhelmed) 02:46 < fenn> this is the article the graph is from http://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid 02:47 < fenn> i have no idea why italy was so bad for so long 02:48 < nmz787> it seems like the difference in stats is regardless of being infected, but whether you got sick at all, or were asymptomatic 02:48 < nmz787> annnd i think I just heard a coyote 02:48 < fenn> they can smell your fear 02:49 < nmz787> like 4 more times 07:17 -!- Alchemical [~al@unaffiliated/alchemical] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:32 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-48-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=584477f3 Michael Folkson: Add JJ on Let's Talk Bitcoin >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/lets-talk-bitcoin-podcast/2016-12-25-christopher-jeffrey-consensus-barnacles/ 09:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=08091aee Michael Folkson: Merge pull request #195 from michaelfolkson/add-jj-ltb >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 09:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=44b87ab7 Michael Folkson: Add Matt on BetterHash >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/london-bitcoin-devs/2019-02-05-matt-corallo-betterhash/ 09:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=21c5f169 Michael Folkson: Merge pull request #196 from michaelfolkson/add-matt-betterhash >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 09:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=63f74950 Michael Folkson: Edits to Bryan on python-bitcoinlib >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/tokyo-2018/edgedevplusplus/python-bitcoinlib/ 09:01 < gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=cdee74a6 Michael Folkson: Merge pull request #197 from michaelfolkson/bryan-python-edits >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/ 09:07 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnjazonkwrgtlhji] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:10 -!- spaceangel_ [~spaceange@185.216.35.116] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:13 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-89-177-48-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26 -!- spaceangel__ [~spaceange@ip-89-177-48-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:29 -!- spaceangel_ [~spaceange@185.216.35.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:33 < superkuh> Are the MinION sequencers (related) really enough for a competent person of moderates means to sequence their own genome at home these days? 10:33 < superkuh> (and related) 10:46 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_(2014_film) 10:51 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:52 < kanzure> https://www.reddit.com/r/eink/comments/kjvsoj/dasung_just_released_a_25_inch_eink_monitor/ 11:11 < juri_> fun looking, but expensive. 11:13 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:28 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:55 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:11 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:28 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Killed (hitchcock.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 13:30 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:40 < fenn> wonder why e-ink corporation took so god damn long 13:42 < kanzure> tw https://twitter.com/_benkaufman/status/1342724295856955392 13:42 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/_benkaufman/status/1342724295856955392 13:42 < saxo> “You don’t need privacy” and “privacy is only for criminals” are lies criminals tell you to make their job easier. (@_benkaufman) 13:48 -!- galambo_ [~galambo@host-92-28-78-158.as13285.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:53 -!- galambo [galambo@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/galambo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07 -!- prometheus_1 [~root@88.230.141.47] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:09 -!- prometheus_1 [~root@88.230.141.47] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37 -!- shawwwn [uid6132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rnjazonkwrgtlhji] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 15:05 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:05 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:20 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:22 < juri_> fenn: they have a monopoly. pretty simple. 16:32 -!- spaceangel__ [~spaceange@ip-89-177-48-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:02 < apotheon> Monopolies breed stagnation. 17:10 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 18:26 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:40 < nmz787> superkuh: I know a guy who lives with his mom and uses one in his plant lab (Sebastian Cocioba) 19:42 < nmz787> superkuh: I think the sample prep was key, maybe more difficult with plant cells vs mammallian, to reduce shearing of the DNA and thus aide the computer processing side 19:55 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 20:17 -!- ShellcatZero [~ShellcatZ@71-218-74-142.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20 -!- ShellcatZero [~ShellcatZ@174-29-48-19.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 22:10 < lsneff> Tooling similar to wasm interface types should exist for native libraries 22:10 < lsneff> https://github.com/WebAssembly/interface-types/blob/master/proposals/interface-types/Explainer.md#lifting-and-lowering-lists 22:15 < fenn> i think that kind of thing is in haskell, but i'm pretty ignorant of type magic 22:16 < lsneff> Ah, that'd be cool 22:16 < lsneff> It does kind of need to exist on both sides 22:17 < lsneff> I've been doing some investigation, and I think I can add it adhoc to rust and maybe c++, but I'm not as good at c++ magic as rust magic. 22:20 < fenn> here's some words that may be relevant http://twitter.com/withoutboats/status/1027702531361857536 22:22 < fenn> i try to write dumb code so i don't have this problem 22:25 < fenn> this guy is giving it the ol college try https://varkor.github.io/blog/2019/03/28/idiomatic-monads-in-rust.html 22:29 < lsneff> Well, not really the same thing. While some of the same type system trickery is necessary, interface types are about letting static/dynamic libraries use rich types in the interface, even between different, incompatible, languages. --- Log closed Sun Dec 27 00:00:57 2020