--- Log opened Wed Jan 13 00:00:14 2021 00:45 -!- sorki [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has joined ##hplusroadmap 00:46 -!- srk [~sorki@gateway/tor-sasl/sorki] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48 -!- sorki is now known as srk 01:02 < nmz787_> fltrz: yes the big expensive equipment demands it... I have a nanotech workhorse that needs to learn some new tricks for my pony show 01:04 < nmz787_> the whole "undocumented codes" thing is presumably some Intel hack, but I don't think people in the know really thought much about it... I am not one that much in the know... but like, I can say I don't think it achieved much in the way of helping me with any of my projects! 01:07 < nmz787_> fenn: exactly like that, it has a few different levels of percent change, so you can do a binary search sort of thing 01:07 < nmz787_> it also has some autofocus and autocontrast and brightness buttons 01:08 < nmz787_> but it gets a little confused since it's not like a touchscreen phone camera app where you touch where you want it to focus to give it some hint 01:08 < nmz787_> though I supposed you can zoom in to a place for that to be essentially the same thing 01:09 < nmz787_> I think I may have actually misinterpreted some of the GUI buttons and there might actually be some coarse/fine/superfine controls 01:21 < nmz787_> actually now that I check on xoreaxeaxeax/sandsifter... it does look like finding issues with the debugger/disassembler would be interesting to me, as well as checking the CPU for bugs... wouldn't want the expensive toy to break 01:21 < nmz787_> there are some odd bugs in the software it came with, which is part of the reason I'm hacking things for better usability 01:22 < fltrz> I wasn't saying the undocumented codes thing was particularly useful, just a very brilliant insight on how part of the processor would leak the existence of undocumented codes. 01:23 < fltrz> I'm not sure how it would help in your project, as it seems much more likely any errant behavior is a pure software bug rather than a ISA / CPU bug 01:25 < nmz787_> well, from what I read it's just a fuzzer 01:26 < nmz787_> yeah likely just bad software 01:32 < fltrz> well he calls it a fuzzer himself, but I think its closer to brute force trying all codes and distinguishing 2 types of fault: faulty instruction and page fault, by progressively moving the instruction in byte steps over a page boundary 01:33 < fltrz> its the latter part that I think was pure genius 01:33 < fltrz> the type of fault leaked information about instruction length 01:34 < fltrz> its in the whitepaper 01:38 < nmz787_> I'm not much of a CPU core geek 01:39 < nmz787_> but have done some fuzzer work 01:40 < nmz787_> helping hacking on afl-smart when my wife wanted to extend it for bit manipulations (not just bytes), since things aren't always byte-aligned in things like certain file formats 01:41 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235180112.dynamic-4-waw-k-4-0-0.vectranet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap 01:43 < fltrz> your wife is a programmer? 01:44 < nmz787_> hardware security researcher 01:44 < nmz787_> I'm more of the programmer 01:45 < nmz787_> she's been helping me get a sense of the whole reversing thing 01:49 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 02:48 -!- darsie [~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined ##hplusroadmap 03:31 < nmz787_> oh, btw, here's a screenshot of the FIB from remote desktop with all the various debug windows open https://imgur.com/a/SLmUAAO 03:53 < Llamamoe> nmz787_: What's that? :O 04:57 < dunno> so those are the windows that you found access to? 04:58 < juri_> nmz787_: I realize you don't need any encouragement, but have some anyways. keep up the good work. :) 05:02 < nmz787_> dunno: some were from finding a "service" password just by dumping the strings of the binary and finding one that caught my eye, and another is from some debugging of the running binary and patching some assembly code 05:02 < nmz787_> Llamamoe: the controls of my FIB microscope 05:02 < nmz787_> juri_: thanks! 05:10 < dunno> do you have a driving license for that thing? 05:10 < dunno> how long does it take to learn to use it? 05:42 -!- CryptoDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdjbyodtxngdriha] has joined ##hplusroadmap 05:42 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0:30ac:9e51:38b3:11ba] has joined ##hplusroadmap 06:45 < kanzure> nmz787_: what remote desktop tool you using? 07:14 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15 -!- mgxm [~mgxm@unaffiliated/mgxm] has quit [Quit: ....] 07:15 -!- mgxm [~mgxm@unaffiliated/mgxm] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:15 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:17 < dunno> thet operating system that controls the microscope, OS-9, is a neat general purpose system 07:17 < dunno> i found sdk for it few months ago 07:18 < dunno> it has internal filesystem, you could actually dig into the software on the controlling computer itself 07:20 < dunno> https://github.com/HoldcroftJ/os9_68k_sdk_v12 07:20 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:27 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:42 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44 < dunno> and i would tottally want to look at the contents of that hard drive if you dumped it 07:45 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:47 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:51 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 07:58 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:00 < dunno> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X68000 08:01 < dunno> this is a japanese computer that was sold with OS-9 and hard drive, it has similar specs, it might have been used as a dev kit or it might be a part of that microscope 08:02 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02 -!- Codaraxis [~Codaraxis@91.193.4.10] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:22 < dunno> https://img.aucfree.com/d344520487.2.jpg 08:23 < lsneff> Was talking to a spacex manager/recruiter recently, but it seems he has ghosted me. Is a shame. 08:41 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined ##hplusroadmap 08:43 < Llamamoe> lsneff: What did you talk about? 08:44 < fenn> Growing Unculturable Bacteria, Splitting the Atom, Knowing the Unknowable, and Other Mysteries 08:44 < fenn> ghosting is a crime 08:44 < fenn> call the FBI 08:47 < fenn> dunno: those are installation floppy disk labels, if you were wondering 08:51 < dunno> yes, sharp sold the microware OS-9 with their X68000 and it was like solely a japanese thing 08:52 < dunno> OS-9 was usually used only in industrial applications without graphical user interface, but in japan it was something more 08:59 < dunno> these floppies were released to general public, on the consumer market, making it more likely for japanese people to familiarize themselves with it 09:15 < dunno> and in case this whole thing it confusing: that FIB microscope was made by Seiko Instruments, a japanese company 09:20 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 09:23 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamagedd@178235180112.dynamic-4-waw-k-4-0-0.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:30 < fenn> imgur is really going out of its way to make it impossible to see images 09:39 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has quit [Quit: this isolation is killing us] 09:56 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@unaffiliated/malvolio] has joined ##hplusroadmap 10:32 < juri_> lsneff: I had a good month in december; had facebook, spacex, tesla, and amazon head hunting me. still at my dayjob. :) 10:33 < juri_> spacex was tempting tho. seriously. 10:35 < fenn> why didn't you go for it? 10:44 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:07 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:12 < lsneff> juri_: lucky 11:23 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 11:38 < juri_> fenn: I like my dayjob, and don't feel like moving back to the states is a good idea. 11:43 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:09 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:16 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Quit: preview] 12:18 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 12:32 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:12 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:16 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 13:42 < lsneff> That's a fair point 13:43 < lsneff> juri_: what were they recruiting you to work on? 14:21 < fltrz> I only get head hunted by figures like the 3rd prince of Ethiopia, who urgently needs me to wire $1k so he can unlock his funds and reward me extravagantly 14:24 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 14:28 < apotheon> I only get headhunted by people who dislike my opinions. 14:28 < apotheon> . . . or maybe all the recruiter emails are going to spam. That's entirely possible. 14:31 < fltrz> apotheon, who know beforehand they dislike your opinions? those might be good employers if they willingly seek people with other opinions 14:31 < TMA> I do not get hunted. I just get offered drugs to enhance sexual potency and alleviate joint pains. Oh and manufacturing services from China. 14:32 < fltrz> well, unless its the theological society of ... 14:35 < fltrz> TMA, i just cross forward those to each other 14:41 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:08 < apotheon> fltrz: I was making a joke about people literally hunting for my head. 16:28 < abetusk> What does adjoin.io actually do? 16:28 < abetusk> *adjoint.io 16:43 -!- jackalhaleyw [jackalhale@d50-92-26-216.bchsia.telus.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap 16:43 < jackalhaleyw> @search 16:43 < jackalhaleyw> any books on nutrition here? 16:45 -!- jackalhaleyw [jackalhale@d50-92-26-216.bchsia.telus.net] has left ##hplusroadmap [] 16:47 < abetusk> .tw https://twitter.com/smdiehl/status/1349307219318345728 16:47 < saxo> Let's have a frank discussion about bitcoin hype. Bitcoin is really an symptom of the problems of our era, of a post-truth world awash in crackpottery and of a breakdown of trust in our institutions. 🧵 (1/) (@smdiehl) 16:48 < apotheon> Are people starting to use "an" before words starting with "s" now? 16:48 < apotheon> Every year, it seems to get used with more words. 16:50 < fltrz> apotheon, yeah that did fly over my head sorry 16:50 < apotheon> no biggie 16:50 < apotheon> I'm here to explain. 16:50 < apotheon> probably all week 16:50 < apotheon> It wasn't a great joke anyway. 16:50 < fltrz> is that a joke again? 16:51 < apotheon> What -- the "here all week" thing? 16:51 < fltrz> jk 17:00 < fltrz> abetusk, yeah, historical Incumbent system I is expected / purported to maintain certain desirable properties, while in the background scientists and mathematicians work, then novel Subjacent system S implements the same or similar desirable properties but in a provable way, and uses the lingering science and math to do so. This naturally prompts a lot of questions: why did the Incumbent system with its political and financial power not utilize 17:00 < fltrz> these methods? why did they not generate unity among its populace by *proving* it implements the desirable properties? etc. Its cheap to accuse "modern times" or "crackpots" of destroying trust in institutions if said institutions put in no effort in proving its desirability, and instead relies on not making cryptography and formal verification a common part of high school education... obviously the system *DID* use crypto (banks, military, ...) but 17:00 < fltrz> systematically not to prove the system free of corruption... 17:02 < fltrz> the crackpots absence of evidence *IS* evidence of absence of *proofs* that the Incumbent system really implements the expected desirable properties 17:12 < abetusk> A complicated way of saying that the boomer is shaking their fist at cryptocurrency to "get off it's lawn". @smdiehl is the CEO of adjoint.io, which claims that they ".... offers a smart contract platform and distributed ledger solutions ... built using the latest research in cryptography, type systems and formal verification." 17:13 < abetusk> which explains the Haskell focus, I guess. I suppose it ties into what you're saying...they're trying to reinvent what cryptocurrency is doing but not like that, like this 17:14 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0:30ac:9e51:38b3:11ba] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30 < fltrz> does anyone know a website that takes a url and renders it to simple static html or such? 17:39 < superkuh> archive.is 17:39 < fltrz> abetusk, first he claims there is no intrinsic value, then near the end "And it cloaks itself in this techno-libertarian narrative about financial independence from the state." but that *IS* the intrinsic value 17:40 -!- preview [~quassel@2407:7000:8423:b00::4] has joined ##hplusroadmap 17:56 < fltrz> superkuh, thanks but it didn't work on the local news site... 18:14 < apotheon> fltrz: Have you tried skipping the website-to-render-a-website approach and just "save as" to get a local copy? 18:14 < apotheon> . . . or are you having trouble getting something to load properly in the browser at all? 18:14 < fltrz> I caved in and disabled the adblocker 18:14 < fltrz> ... 18:14 < apotheon> ugh 18:14 < apotheon> sorry to hear it 18:15 < fltrz> didnt load at all, I guess it detected non cookies, non js 18:15 < fltrz> it should be possible to figure out the non js thing, but too lazy 18:24 < fltrz> I'm surprised people don't build technology similar to adblockers, with list of check functions used on sites / in libraries, and minimal js functions that effectively give lip service and pretend the user sure is running js 18:26 < fltrz> like if a site has some js code that does 3+5, and does a get with the result so they can server side check if they continue serving you, that it receives the 8 (or whatever function evaluation) but doesn't do the other crap 18:39 < fenn> how do you know which ones matter 18:40 < fenn> they don't usually check, there's just a