--- Log opened Thu Jan 21 00:00:22 2021
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06:24 < Llamamoe> fltrz: Are you around?
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07:12 < fltrz> Llamamoe, now yes
07:13 < fltrz> fenn, what pattern did you see in the graph?
07:13 < Llamamoe> fltrz: Do you have any insights on how I might choose something that I can use to bond PCL with silicone ?
07:13 < L29Ah> lol
07:14 < L29Ah> choose mechanical joints
07:14 < fltrz> its not the kind of thing I would know. I someone put a gun to my head, I'd use locking shapes, assuming the silicone is flexible enough?
07:15 < L29Ah> oh, you want both things to be solid even, at the time of joining?
07:15 < L29Ah> can't you pour silicone over pcl or vice versa?
07:18 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: Pour as in some sort of resin?
07:18 < Llamamoe> I do not really know much about things
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07:20 < L29Ah> well, silicone is a resin until crosslinked, and PCL is a thermoplastic
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07:39 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: What causes the crosslinking? Is temperature involved? How would I choose a silicone resin?
07:40 < Llamamoe> The main two things I wanna do is 1) bond PCL x silicone, and 2) apply silicone to memory foam to make it air-tight
07:40 < Llamamoe> IDK if #2 sounds viable at all
07:44 < L29Ah> a chemical; no; dunno, you can just grab some kit for making forms or PDMS and "hardener" separately
07:44 < L29Ah> the proportion of the polymer and the hardener defines the physical properties of the product
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07:46 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: How do I tell what is body-safe? (or rather, safe to breathe air that goes around it)
07:46 < L29Ah> also you can grab a silicone caulk if you're okay with some acetic acid
07:46 < L29Ah> dunno; grinders used both caulk and other options, and i don't remember any problems with them
07:47 < Llamamoe> How can I tell if I might mind acetic acid? O.o
07:47 < L29Ah> medically-approved silicones use a hardener and a tin- or platinum-based catalyst afair
07:47 < Llamamoe> I see :o
07:47 < L29Ah> if it's single-component, then most likely it hardens when exposed to moist air, producing acetic acid fumes in the process
07:50 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: I presume those can be ventilated out with time, though?
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07:51 < L29Ah> yeah, but i think some acid will be trapped in the polymer virtually forever
07:51 < L29Ah> those aren't physiologically relevant quantities for a human though i think
07:52 < L29Ah> if it no longer stinks then it's safe
07:53 < Llamamoe> Makes perfect sense
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08:08 < lsneff> .t https://github.com/zalo/CascadeStudio
08:08 < saxo> GitHub - zalo/CascadeStudio: A Full Live-Scripted CAD Kernel in the Browser
08:10 < L29Ah> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/zalo/CascadeStudio/master/icon/Fillet.png openscad = pwned
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08:45 < lsneff> openscad can't do fillets?
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08:58 < L29Ah> almost
08:58 < L29Ah> there are very cpu-intensive kludges that work in some cases
09:35 < fltrz> <Llamamoe> L29Ah: How do I tell what is body-safe? (or rather, safe to breathe air that goes around it) << breathe through mouth or nose? if its through mouth the mouth will get dry, through nose is huge surface area of mucous membranes that moisturize air
09:35 < fltrz> at least thats what I always thought
09:35 < Llamamoe> fltrz: Through nose, and I mean after curing.
09:36 < fltrz> what motivates the preference for silicone? its elasticity?
09:36 < fltrz> also perhaps drawing some pictures for #1 and #2 might help us explain the considered ideas
09:36 < fltrz> *might help explain to us the ...
09:39 < Llamamoe> fltrz: I want to make a face mask, for a PAP(I say PAP because it's a BPAP, not a CPAP, but people are mostly only familiar with CPAP) machine, or rather something that attaches to an existing mask's frame.
09:40 < Llamamoe> The current idea is to use PCL to make a mold of my face that slots into the frame, then glue memory foam for comfort and better fit as I move my head around(the straps are laid out in a way that head-neck position changes fit slightly, and impregnate it with some sort of silicone epoxy to reduce air leakage(a slight amount is fine, in fact desirable, even if ideally it should be a constant amount leaking per minu
10:06 < Llamamoe> fltrz: L29Ah: What consistency does silicone resin have? Do you think I could use it to stop air from leaking through a memory foam? How would I apply it? Spread it over a surface to which it does not bind, press the foam against it, rub it around a bit, let it cure, maybe apply more layers?
10:07 < L29Ah> depends on the molecular weight
10:07 < L29Ah> oily liquid
10:08 < L29Ah> the crosslinked silicone is more like a rubber, the exact consistency depends on the concentration of the crosslinker
10:08 < L29Ah> just like with other rubbers
10:09 < Llamamoe> L29Ah: There are different crosslinkers, I assume?
10:09 < L29Ah> if your foam has open pores, it would help adhesion
10:09 < L29Ah> yea, but i don't know much about them
10:09 < Llamamoe> It does, yes
10:09 < Llamamoe> Hm
10:09 < Llamamoe> Oh right I can search youtube to see how people work with diff stuff
10:09 < Llamamoe> Maybe
10:10 < Llamamoe> Does moisture cure food-grade silicone on the base of "Polysiloxane (alkoxy)" sound good? O.o Gaaaahhh so much stuff that needs to be known T_T
10:16 < Llamamoe> This one apparently polymerizes due to moisture. And idk about reading the material properties x_x
10:16 < Llamamoe> Seems sufficiently soft for my purposes, SHA 20
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11:17 < fltrz> Llamamoe, I have thought a lot about sealing masks to faces (especially since corona), my conclusion was that the best / non wounding seal should be compliant and distribute the pressure over large area, imagine an inflatable bicycle inner tube, but a very very small one, perhaps for childrens bicycles, semi inflated and with the mask shape such that it has a rim roughly shaped with average face shape, then the semi inflated tire will comply to the
11:17 < fltrz> face spontaneously. that would make an airtight seal though, but you can make a controlled leak in the mask part itself
11:18 < fltrz> I don't know how biocompatible / unhealthy inner tubes are though.
11:19 < Llamamoe> fltrz: Yeh but for a mask you wear to sleep that has to keep forming a tight seal against up to 20mmH2O pressure(in my case 12-14, but that's still a fair bit), it also needs to be comfortable for a long time despite being strapped on tight
11:19 < fltrz> or perhaps inflatable wheelbarrow inner tube, not sure what type of product already has the right size... also depends on covering whole face or just nose and mouth or ... it would also be more tolerant of movement, like opening mouth to lick your lips etc...
11:20 < Llamamoe> I know that two main approaches in commercial masks are A) thin silicone that inflates against the face, forming a seal, sometimes with an extra layer of thicker silicone, and B) memory foam, which is leaky but works great
11:20 < Llamamoe> I do not think the memory foam I got is anywhere near as good as the one they use specially for the purpose
11:20 < fltrz> Llamamoe, its exactly because of the strapped on tight that I think a compliant inner tube is better than a hard specific shape
11:20 < Llamamoe> I also need to air it fuck knows how long to get rid of its smell
11:21 < Llamamoe> But IMO, PCL face-mold + memory foam + thin layer of silicone rubbed onto one side of the foam = a winning idea
11:22 < fltrz>  A) thin silicone that inflates against the face << sounds like equivalent to my idea, didn't see that yet, equivalent except instead of using a prefabricate using silicone rubber custom shaped inner tube instead of say wheelbarrow inner tube
11:23 < fltrz> I was considering prefabricates because it would be easier and less hassle and probably cheaper for DIY custom face masks
11:24 < lsneff> It's starting to sound like you're making space suits
11:24 < fltrz> do you know a good page showing the inflatable silicon masks?
11:25 < fltrz> quite curious now
11:26 < fltrz> lsneff, not sure what I propose would be safe in vacuum :S if mouth and nose get pressure but rest of body doesn't, breathing out will be hard
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11:28 < fltrz> I guess pressure could be oscillated
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11:29 < L29Ah> if you wrap the body with some spandex and film, a mask would be enough
11:29 < L29Ah> until you care about cosmic radiation, then you need tons of shielding
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12:32 < Llamamoe> fltrz: Search about for CPAP masks
12:33 < Llamamoe> fltrz: ResMed has I think the most variations in terms of designs
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13:55 < juri_> so, human brain in TFLOPS?
13:56 < juri_> still 36,800?
14:04 < L29Ah> a tiny bit higher than 0
14:05 < L29Ah> humans are bad at FLOPS
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14:42 < apotheon> flip-flops, on the other hand
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17:53 < docl> .tw https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1352413001068896258
17:53 < saxo> @Erdayastronaut It’s a good path for fully renewable rocket energy, so solves part of problem, but longer chain hydrocarbons than CH4 are needed to be solid at room temp (@elonmusk, in reply to tw:1352393301689847808)
17:55 < docl> er, meant to paste this one
17:55 < docl> .tw https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1352392678177034242
17:55 < saxo> Am donating $100M towards a prize for best carbon capture technology (@elonmusk)
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18:44  * fenn is reading "dressing for altitude" about the history of pressure suits, the precursors to space suits
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21:12 < fenn> http://beta.space tiny burning man for space entrepreneurs
22:11 < lsneff> https://www.eventbrite.com/e/betaspace-2030-tickets-75010463315
22:20 < fenn> transportation not included
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 22 00:00:22 2021