--- Log opened Fri Feb 05 00:00:36 2021
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08:13 < kanzure> .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26036508
08:13 < saxo> 23andMe goes public through SPAC | Hacker News
08:21 < archels> .title https://videocast.nih.gov/livew.asp?live=41364
08:22 < saxo> NIH VideoCast - Brain Connectivity Workshop Series: Significance of mapping complete neural circuits (Workshop 1)
08:22 < archels> live now
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11:39 < archels> .title https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_DqrGP2hvSgOkU_3nlXDP4g
11:39 < saxo> Webinar Registration - Zoom
11:39 < archels> RFID (and other) implants, functional consequences
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14:16 < lsneff> .tw https://twitter.com/PhysRevLett/status/1354866900036153352
14:16 < saxo> Pulsar-timing data @NANOGrav pointing to a nanoHz gravitational wave background could be from / black hole mergers / cosmic strings / https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.041305 / https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.041304 / primordial black holes / https://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.126.041303 / https://journals.aps.org/prl/accepted/7707bY19J421ce6937f2015130
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16:11 < kanzure> https://balthazar.space/wiki/Balthazar
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16:33 < lsneff> ^ > "Detachable USB gender-changer dongle"
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17:07 < fenn> the article summary feature in this library is rather interesting: https://newspaper.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
17:07 < fenn> e.g. https://www.fishfarmingexpert.com/article/feed-pipe-wear-putting-tonnes-of-plastic-into-sea/ ❝Thus, Naturvernforbundet estimates a potential of 325 tonnes of microplastic from Norwegian fish farms a year.❞
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17:30 < kanzure> sauropods https://svpow.com/
17:31 < L29Ah> nanoHz gravitational wave background sounds like earth moving around sun
17:43 < fenn> 32 years
18:43 < kanzure> "However, a large number of countries (India, Thailand, Canada, most all of Europe, and many others) have now outlawed, or severely restricted, birth by commercial surrogacy after seeing numerous abuses, such as baby mills"
18:44 < kanzure> hah "Americans once fought a civil war over the buying and selling of human life. But now, if you have the money, you can buy a brand new human in New Hampshire"
18:47 < fenn> what's a baby mill
18:49 < fenn> better send a swat team to https://www.bizapedia.com/ca/the-baby-mill-llc.html
18:49 < fenn> i heard they're making illegal babies
18:50 < apotheon> Is a baby mill like a place where you grind their bones to make flour for your bread?
18:50 < fenn> you grind them up to make baby food
18:50 < fenn> this is the impression i get from a short web search
18:52 < apotheon> baby food made from babies, like strawberry cupcakes made from real strawberries and girl scout cookies made from real girl scouts
19:02 < kanzure> you're really just renting a womb more than anything, you're not buying someone else's embryo
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19:39 < apotheon> Wait -- why am *I* renting a womb?  I don't want it!
19:43 < kanzure> because you are not equipped with an incubator
19:45 < apotheon> I don't think I need an incubator.
19:51 < kanzure> well that's just poor salesmanship right there
19:53 < apotheon> I agree: you're doing a poor job of selling this to me.
20:02 < kanzure> oh the old switcheroo
20:13 < docl> my wife might not be able to have as many children as we'd like due to her fragile health and biological clock, so the option of hiring a surrogate has some appeal. I worry a bit that the surrogate might become attached, since that's what mothers normally do wrt their offspring
20:17 < docl> using eggs from a different surrogate (my wife is considered too old for this and doesn't seem to have as much interest in propagating her genes as I do) could help provide another layer of separation, but that would probably add to the expense.
20:18 < docl> the real solution seems to be to become wealthy before this becomes an issue.
20:20 < docl> egg donation is not a trivial thing, involves mucking with hormones and thus apparently carries a cancer risk. kind of unfair
20:27 < kanzure> think that applies even when it's not donation
20:31 < apotheon> I'm . . . *potentially* interested in propagating my genetic material in spare-parts clones for longevity.
20:31 < apotheon> I'd need to consider the ethical implications.
20:31 < fenn> "saviour sibling" blech
20:32 < fenn> just dress it up in religious connotations and everything's fine
20:32 < fenn> ~
20:33 < apotheon> I'd only want to go the spare parts clone route if it could be guaranteed to not, at any point, be even remotely capable of consciousness, I think.
20:33 < fenn> we can do a full mouse cell life cycle in a petri dish. humans shouldn't be much different
20:33 < apotheon> . . . thus not a "sibling" at all; just an organ farm.
20:34 < fenn> my point was that people already do this with walking talking organ farms, and there isn't any ethical stampede
20:34 < fenn> just make it not look creepy
20:34 < fenn> better if you store your spare organs in a pig
20:34 < apotheon> I am not down with walking talking organ farms, basically.
20:34 < fenn> then it just looks like a pig and you don't get ethics nazis
20:35 < apotheon> I'm not too keen on parts-slavery (maybe there's a better term for this) of pigs, either.
20:35 < fenn> well too bad
20:35 < fenn> you need to have something that can provide blood, immunity, lymphatic system, etc
20:35 < apotheon> Pigs are smart enough to make me uncomfortable with that, ethically.
20:36 < fenn> fine, whatever animal is dumb enough to make you comfortable then
20:36 < apotheon> need something dumber
20:36 < apotheon> Oh, okay, that's cool, then.
20:36 < fenn> how about a mentally retarded pig
20:37 < fenn> the pig dies at the end
20:37 < fenn> spoiler alert
20:37 < fenn> why do we still not have seeded "ghost" organs?
20:37 < apotheon> I eat elk, so . . . y'know, an elk might be okay.
20:37 < fenn> feisty
20:38 < apotheon> Elk is tasty, and not too smart.
20:38 < fenn> i've never played chess with an elk
20:38 < apotheon> nor have I
20:38 < apotheon> The elk would just walk across the board and drop feces on it, probably.
20:38 < fenn> so would the pig
20:39 < apotheon> Some pigs would do other things.
20:41 < fenn> with ghost organs you could have an elk heart, or a hart heart
20:42 < apotheon> or a hard heart
20:42 < apotheon> maybe
20:42 < fenn> i don't get it
20:42 < apotheon> almost like a pun, but not very good
20:43 < fenn> the point is, with a clone and normal development, you're stuck with human physiology. with ghost organs there's a lot more design freedom
20:44 < fenn> and then you can experiment with development modifications on ethically cheaper organisms
20:44 < fenn> i wish someone would hurry up and make a coherent ethical framework, preferably a quantitative one
20:45 < fenn> then we can just hire ethical accountants to handle all that boring calculation stuff, and get back to the interesting work
20:46 < fenn> i guess this is an opportune time to mention http://www.tabootrades.com/
20:51 < apotheon> carbon swaps for ethics
20:52 < apotheon> (in other words, totally not really ethical)
20:52 < apotheon> (just fucking weird)
20:52 < apotheon> the world makes me tired
20:53 < fenn> whoosh
20:54 < fenn> reality is broken
20:54 < apotheon> I'm aware it's almost certainly satire.
20:55 < apotheon> There's no whoosh here.
20:55 < apotheon> I'm tempted to request a "moral good" from Taboo Trades, though.
21:13 < docl> .title https://www.xprize.org/prizes/carbon/teams/dimensional_energy
21:14 < saxo> Dimensional Energy | Carbon XPRIZE
21:14 < apotheon> damn
21:15 < apotheon> I was hoping that would turn out to be zero-point energy harvesting or something like that.
21:15 < docl> I'm not so sure about the use of a solar concentrator -- that won't be as cheap as if they can just lay out panels. but at least someone is taking the idea of photocatalysts seriously for that
21:15 < docl> lol yeah
21:17 < apotheon> "We use information transfer through intertemporal wormholes to create timeline forks, then trade dissipative entropy from our timeline for high-density energy streams from those other timelines."
21:18 < apotheon> "Unfortunately, our original idea of just stealing polymers turned out to be more expensive in early tests than stealing energy and producing the polymers in localtime."
21:19 < docl> I think the best form of this looks like plastic stuff you roll out on fields and it makes fuel. or maybe suspend particles in a pond and collect the hydrocarbons from the surface. setting up mirrors has a bit complexity penalty, which is why csp (concentrated solar power, i.e. mirror systems) is currently losing to pv panels.
21:20 < apotheon> yeah
21:22 < docl> but if your catalyst is expensive (platinum group metals e.g) you might use mirrors for that reason
21:24 < docl> or if it needs to be in specially formed cells that are hard to make, etc
21:26 < docl> if you want acres and acres of the stuff, seems like cheap plastic units that push synfuel out through hoses is what you really want though. make it more cost efficient than farmland and suddenly farmers have a crop they don't have to irrigate
21:28 < fenn> hm i guess the punchline never made it to the website. in the end, when you have enough moral goods being exchanged it's possible for everyone to dump their raw (to them) negative goods onto the market in exchange for refined entirely positive goods (to them)
21:30 < fenn> so you can e.g. trade a negative abortion in the UK with a missionary condemning birth control in africa, for a net positive vegetarian
21:31 < fenn> because the african is likely unable to afford meat
21:32 < fenn> everybody wins!
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 06 00:00:37 2021