--- Log opened Fri Apr 02 00:00:13 2021
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07:20 < docl> balloon+nylon seems less expensive and smaller scale than a car tire. more desktop optimal
07:21 < L29Ah> what about a PET bottle?
07:23 < L29Ah> could be pumped through a separate hole while in use unlike a balloon
07:24 < L29Ah> > This allowed us to increase the operational inflation pressure of a latex balloon from 2.5 to 25 kPa.
07:24 < L29Ah> a PET bottle holds 800kPa w/o popping in my experience
07:32 < docl> hmm. you could probably fit a lot of pressurized air in a 2-liter soda pop bottle
07:34 < L29Ah> i tested it on a 30g 2L bottle; CocaCola's 2L bottles weigh 40g so probably can sustain more pressure
07:35  * L29Ah wants to store propane/butane mixture in a soda bottle but failed to install a decent enough valve that won't leak over months
07:36 < L29Ah> otoh i have a bottle with some butane lying for half a year already closed with the regular soda bottle cap, didn't lose even a gram of weight over that time
07:49 < darsie> I have steel bottles for propane/butane.
07:55 < L29Ah> and they are HEAVY and rusty
07:56 < darsie> heavy, but not rusty.
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08:41 < docl> what pressure is butane usually stored at? is there a reason they usually use metal containers instead of plastic? flame hazard might be a reason
08:46 < docl> well, cheap plastic cigarette lighters are a thing so maybe it's just metal for larger quantities.
08:52 < L29Ah> a few atmospheres
08:52 < L29Ah> metal doesn't accumulate static electricity
08:53 < L29Ah> and steel is cheaper than PET
08:54 < L29Ah> lighters are usually PS btw that is cheaper but is fragile
08:54 < darsie> docl: The vaporpressure corresponding to ambient temperature.
08:55 < darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butane_(data_page)#Vapor_pressure_of_liquid
09:04 < darsie> In Torr :(
09:11 < darsie> 5 bar at 50 C.
09:11 < darsie> 50 C might soften PET sufficiently so it can't contayn 5 bar.
09:13 < L29Ah> ah yes, all my experiments were done at 20-25°C
09:14 < darsie> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vapor_pressure_chart.svg
09:16 < darsie> https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/cbook.cgi?ID=C106978&Mask=4&Type=ANTOINE&Plot=on#ANTOINE
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17:31 < fenn> i would think that some polymers are weakened by being in contact with butane
17:32 < fenn> storing butane in a cheap soda bottle is just a bad idea
17:32 < fenn> unless you're _trying_ to get someone killed
17:33 < fenn> still probably a bad idea
17:41  * L29Ah bought n-hexane in PET from a chem store about 4 years ago, it's still in there
17:41 < L29Ah> and plenty of other, cruder oil rectification products are sold in PET here
17:43 < L29Ah> interestingly, finding pentane is a pita, but ~butane and ~hexane are omnipresent
17:46 < fenn> because pentane is used for making illegal drugs~
17:46 < L29Ah> what
17:46 < fenn> (note snark mark)
17:46 < L29Ah> i'm pretty sure it's not a controlled substance here
18:35 < nmz787__> fenn jrayhawk are hemp hearts ok in terms of being stable against oxidation, or should  I stick with  whole seeds?
19:01 < fenn> i don't even know what a hemp heart is
19:03 < fenn> it's just a shelled hemp seed
19:03 < fenn> probably about the same
19:05 < fenn> "Once opened, you can expect a bag of hemp seeds to last for about a year in the refrigerator or freezer. If you keep a package in your pantry, however, that shelf life will be more like 3 to 4 months"
19:08 < fenn> "The one thing you want to look for when buying a bag of hemp seeds is a totally opaque package that doesn't have a window for you to look at the actual seeds. A window means the contents of the bag are being exposed to light"
19:09 < fenn> some special types of plastic are oxygen barriers, but most are not
19:09 < fenn> ideally they'd come in those metallic foil pouches or a metal can or a glass jar
19:11 < nmz787__> ok, good enough reasons not to buy from the bulk section of the grocery store
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--- Log closed Sat Apr 03 00:00:14 2021