--- Log opened Fri May 06 00:00:15 2022
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03:33 < docl> interesting, the prospect of wallet cracking is incentivizing APM (since it's the only way to get scalable quantum computing)
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04:43 < nsh> docl, what makes you say 'only way'?
04:44 < nsh> that would seem to me a somewhat staggering level of certainty about something like QC
04:46 < nsh> (i would agree it's promising and inevitably once viability is established then a production process similar to what's branded as APM is inevitable)
04:46 < nsh> s/production/fabrication/
04:47 < nsh> here's a reasonable phrasing:
04:47 < nsh> --
04:47 < nsh> Positioning of single dopant atoms is a promising route to creating a quantum computer, in which the digital bits of a classical computer are replaced with quantum bits, or qubits. This would allow certain classes of problems, such as cryptography, to be calculated much faster than what is currently possible with classical computer technology. Single phosphorus atoms have established advantages for quantum computing, including single-electron and nuclear 
04:47 < nsh> spin-1/2 states with exceptionally long coherence times situated in the industrially-relevant silicon platform. Proposals for silicon:phosphorus donor-based quantum computing architectures are all founded on a regular periodic array of phosphorus donors at a nanoscale pitch. Atomic-precision phosphorus placement via scanning tunneling microscopy (STM) and hydrogen depassivation lithography (HDL) mitigates the stochastic spatial scatter, inherent to more 
04:47 < nsh> conventional ion implant techniques, that is predicted to have severe impacts on 2-donor-gate interactions. To scale these devices up from 1 to 2, to 4 or even 10 qubit devices, tools for patterning with atomic precision, with high reliability and throughput, are required.
04:47 < nsh> -- https://www.zyvexlabs.com/apm/rd/science-of-apm/
04:48 < nsh> but it's not the totality of what's necessary, just a potential key component in the nexus of technologies required for realisation
04:48 < nsh> as much has to be done in the space of coding and other more theoretical aspects
04:48 < nsh> not to mention algorithmics
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05:20 < nsh> .wik Braess's paradox
05:20 < saxo> " /  / Braess's paradox is the observation that adding one or more roads to a road network can slow down overall traffic flow through it." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess's_paradox
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06:09 < docl> ah, my wording was a bit uncareful there. sorry
06:09 < docl> seems very hard to do QC without APM though
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06:10 < docl> (at scale, that is)
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06:23 < docl> the 30mg vyvanse dose seemed too high yesterday so I'm doing volumetric dosing this morning, 10mg for now along with my usual coffee (2-3 cups)
06:30 < muurkha> one problem with extended release formulations of things is that once you've swallowed them, you're committed for the duration; you can't reduce the dose a little later in the day
06:30 < muurkha> or in some cases, later in the week
06:32 < docl> yeah
06:34 < docl> I think there was a noticable amount in my system when I got up in the morning. more alert without coffee than I'd typically be. luckily low enough by the time I went to bed that I could sleep
06:36 < docl> so that's good news, I can probably benefit at less than a full pill a day
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06:45 < lsneff> If qc drives apm development, I’m all for it
06:46 < lsneff> We’ll just sample the state of the art when it’s mature
06:49 < docl> yeah... maybe people storing btc in wallets with QC crackable public keys could be an act of philanthropy :)
06:51 < docl> (not actually good if your wallet gets robbed due to insecure public keys though)
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07:12 < docl> DOD extended the funding to spiroligomer research another 18 months
07:12 < docl> https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23clasp?from=1651824719
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07:34 < lsneff> Whomever commented on your Twitter post had a good idea
07:35 < lsneff> Satoshi’s wallet
07:37 < docl> yeah if satoshi never moves those (being dead or having lost the key or whatever) it could be pretty lucrative
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09:01 < lsneff> maaku: do you know if zyvex ever got the mems array STMs working?
09:12 < maaku> lsneff: if they have I don’t think they’ve been public about it.
09:13 < maaku> nsh: chief problem with QC is error correction. APM approaches massively reduce errors (obvs) which mitigates that issue
09:14 < maaku> I don’t think there is any other technology with as much promise for near-term QC, baring some fundamental breakthroughs in quantum error correction 
09:15 < lsneff> Why are larger corporations not going for this?
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10:05 < maaku> lsneff: going for what, quantum computers?
10:05 < maaku> I don't think there's much of a market opportunity tbh
10:05 < maaku> the most transformative effect of QC is breaking encryption, which could be the source of some government contracts
10:06 < maaku> but otherwise it's really hard to make a QC for solving real world problems which is more efficient than classical computers
10:07 < maaku> in a broad sense of the word "efficient". even if you technically get quantum supremacy in some search algorithm, is it worth the engineering pain to rearchitect your whole system to use it
10:07 < maaku> is the latency good enough, are there bottlenecks, etc.
10:08 < maaku> I may be talking out my ass here though. It's not my field.
10:09 < lsneff> Large corporations are pouring billions into qc
10:09 < lsneff> Msft, google, ibm
10:10 < maaku> innovation labs for the most part, the place where good ideas go to die (but sometimes generate enough positive PR to make it worth while)
10:10 < maaku> D-wave hasn't exactly been a smashing success
10:11 < maaku> are you asking why aren't they investing in AFM-based quantum computers?
10:11 < maaku> Idk. Maybe it doesn't pass the sniff test. Sounds too much like science fiction. Not respectable. :shrug:
10:12 < lsneff> Yes, that is what I was asking
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11:02 < lsneff> https://www.zyvexlabs.com/apm/products/zyvector/
11:05 < lsneff> https://www.sbir.gov/node/2151579
11:05 < lsneff> .t
11:05 < saxo> High-Speed Platform for Highly Parallel STM Lithography and Hierarchical Assembly | SBIR.gov
11:05 < lsneff> This was just awarded last year
11:10 < maaku> wow you can actually buy it
11:10 < maaku> good find, thanks
11:14 < lsneff> I can’t figure out how zyvex is a self-sustained business
11:37 < docl> maybe it loses more money than it makes but the owner keeps sinking more in to try and maintain progress?
12:05 < maaku> it's a research lab attached to a successful maritime manufactuirng company?
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12:05 < maaku> i thnk they also sold off some of their nanotube stuff a few years back
12:26 < nmz787> I thought the major desire for QC was chemical reaction simulations
12:26 < nmz787> (aside from crypto salvation/damnation)
12:29 < nmz787> lsneff: you mean "why aren't big corps going for [STM litho]"?
12:29 < nmz787> presumably they /are/ but it just isn't viable for making money right now
12:30 < nmz787> they still need to recoop the EUV investments
12:31 < nmz787> and single-atom is just too slow when your factory speedometer is measured in units of WPM or WPH (wafers per minute/hour)
12:55 < lsneff> you’d know better than us, as well
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15:11 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/Labrigger/status/1522654962756452352
15:11 < saxo> Exotic things to patch clamp? These people patched sperm. And not even the head, the tail. And it keeps flapping. / https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-12-397944-5.00004-3 https://twitter.com/EmbraceTheCoda/status/1522580697772343298 https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSGOMppUYAAqBUu.png https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSGOYwoUcAEKKoj.png (@Labrigger)
15:12 < kanzure> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/B9780123979445000043?via%3Dihub
15:19 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/Rainmaker1973/status/1522674217493405698
15:19 < saxo> The Hubble Ultra Deep Field led to an estimate that the observable universe contained at least 200 billion galaxies. But a research from 2016 suggests that number is at least 10 times too low leading to a total of 2 trillion (2,000,000,000,000) galaxies: https://go.nasa.gov/3s40UOR https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSGf4dcXEAAOHS_.jpg (@Rainmaker1973)
15:25 < superkuh> https://xkcd.com/2596/ - needs an update then
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15:48 < fenn> zyvex sells carbon fiber additives, but i know what you mean
15:49 < fenn> for increasing the bonding strength between carbon cloth and epoxy in composites manufacturing
15:51 < fenn> "In April 2007, Zyvex Corporation reorganized itself into three independent companies to ensure continued product focus: Zyvex Performance Materials LLC, Zyvex Instruments LLC and Zyvex Labs LLC. Assets were distributed among the three companies and dedicated management was hired for the Materials and Instruments businesses."
15:52 < fenn> "Zyvex Labs funding comes from government R&D contracts, private investment and contract research."
15:58 < fenn> "Our sister company, Zyvex Instruments (currently owned by ThermoFisher), is the world leader in nanoprobe testing of integrated circuits."
15:58 < fenn> so i guess they sold off part of the company
15:59 < fenn> the useful old version of the website is still online http://www.zyvex.com/nano/
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16:31 < docl> .title https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acs.orglett.2c01295
16:31 < saxo> Just a moment...
16:32 < docl> not on sci-hub yet apparently
16:32 < docl> "Development of Fmoc-Protected Bis-Amino Acids toward Automated Synthesis of Highly Functionalized Spiroligomers"
16:35 < docl> "We report the fluorenylmethoxycarbonyl (Fmoc) protection of functionalized bis-amino acid building blocks using a temporary Cu2+ complexation strategy, together with an efficient multikilogram-scale synthesis of bis-amino acid precursors. This allows the synthesis of stereochemically and functionally diverse spiroligomers utilizing solid-phase Fmoc/tBu chemistry to facilitate the development of 
16:35 < docl> applications. Four tetramers were assembled on a semiautomated microwave peptide synthesizer. We determined their secondary structures with two-dimensional nuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy."
16:41 < docl> there's an un-paywalled supporting information doc detailing how to make the building block molecules
16:50 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/ucsenoi/status/1426998775378182145
16:50 < saxo> Can you undo an eFUSE by reading it over and over again? // Reading the fuse value means applying power to it and measuring the resistance. So with enough power (and heat? for lower R) electromigration should reverse. // Do poly eFUSEs have protections against this kind of thing? https://twitter.com/colinoflynn/status/1426241456931545096 (@ucsenoi)
16:50 < lsneff> Is there consensus that spiroligomers are actually stiff and don’t flail around that proteins
16:57 < kanzure> https://google.github.io/xls/
17:02 < muurkha> maaku: I don't really understand QC but couldn't Grover's algorithm give you a quadratic speedup on a pretty broad class of problems?
17:03 < maaku> muurkha: yes
17:03 < maaku> but if you're talking about what I said ealier, the problem is that quantum computers are slow
17:03 < muurkha> necessarily slow or just happen to be so so far?
17:04 < maaku> huge constant factor difference between quantum computers and classical computers
17:04 < muurkha> inherently?
17:04 < maaku> so it only really makes sense when the algorithm gain is insanely unbalanced due the massive search space
17:05 < maaku> not inherently, no.. part of the appeal of atomically precise QC is that it gets rid of a lot of the high cost that comes from error correction
17:05 < serge74> where do you see society in 10 years
17:06 < muurkha> serge74: in the future
17:06 < serge74> :o
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17:13 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/colinoflynn/status/1426241456931545096
17:13 < saxo> @_MG_ @EspressifSystem So... polyfuses (common e-fuse implementation) can re-grow. If they don't "blow" enough they can actually later change state, it's rare but possible. Example ref - https://bunniestudios.com/blog/images/efuse.pdf (@colinoflynn, in reply to tw:1426238789668663297)
17:13 < kanzure> chiastre: welcome
17:20 < serge74> any undervalued promising nanotech stocks ?
17:20 < maaku> we don't do stonks here
17:20 < muurkha> prolly
17:21 < serge74> i thought that predicting the future while making loads of money  fits with the subject
17:22 < muurkha> nothing wrong with predicting the future while making loads of money, but it hasn't really been my strong point so far
17:22 < serge74> same haha
17:22 < muurkha> I know a lot more about what can happen than what will
17:22 < serge74> yeah good point
17:23 < serge74> lots of stuff can change in unforeseen way in any time
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23:44 < maaku> lsneff: Zyvex's current capabilities as of 6mo ago: https://youtu.be/TC5I-q5Wuik
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--- Log closed Sat May 07 00:00:16 2022