--- Log opened Thu Aug 11 00:00:46 2022
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08:06 < kanzure> hmph
08:27 < kanzure> meeting transcription service https://fireflies.ai/
10:00 < kanzure> "one-shot signatures" using quantum no-cloning https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/107
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12:24 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1557804223940665344
12:24 < saxo> In Gattaca, no amount of Vincent's hard work should make Vincent a hero. He's just a fraud. (@kanzure)
12:24 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/MarkFriedenbach/status/1557809639755960320
12:24 < saxo> @kanzure @lachlansneff When the system itself is unjust, disobedience is justified. (@MarkFriedenbach, in reply to tw:1557808976548564992)
12:25 < kanzure> hmm
12:25 < muurkha> systems are unjust by nature tho
12:26 < muurkha> for disobedience to systems to be justified only sometimes, you need a higher bar than that
12:26 < lsneff> That’s a lesson that has been learned over and over throughout history
12:39 < muurkha> ?
12:41 < lsneff> “systems are unjust be nature” is a meaningless statement
12:44 < muurkha> true, it fails to parse
12:44 < muurkha> it works better if you replace "be" with "by" though
12:44 < lsneff> everything is a system, is everything unjust?
12:45 < pasky_> muurkha: everything is a system, is everything unjust?
12:46 < pasky_> Muaddib: everything is a system, is everything unjust?
12:46 < Muaddib> pasky_: only if it's a developer's tool ;)
12:46 < muurkha> pasky_: everything is a system, is everything unjust?
12:46 < muurkha> lsneff: oh, a semantic disconnection
12:49 < muurkha> by "system" I meant, as I think MarkFriedenbach did, a social organization of hierarchical power nominally governed by rules; examples include a soccer game, the system of taxation of a country, a police force, and Google.  I did not mean "system" in the more general sense of "some arbitrary collection of things"
12:49 < muurkha> but what was the lesson that has been learned over and over?
12:52 < lsneff> ah, I see
12:53 < lsneff> The lesson is that unjust systems must be responded to with disobedience
12:53 < lsneff> Exactly as maaku stated
13:02 < muurkha> there are certainly many people who believe that, but if you also believe that systems are unjust by nature, it entails that systems must be responded to with disobedience
13:02 < muurkha> and I submit that sometimes it is fun to play soccer
13:03 < muurkha> (although maaku's statement was somewhat softer: he argued that disobedience was permissible, not obligatory)
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13:17 < kanzure> if the story is about justified disobedience, then gattaca is really a story about unjustified genetics, while not making the case that genetics cannot be justified
13:19 < muurkha> not familiar with it
13:19 < kanzure> it's a good movie, try it out
13:21 < muurkha> I haven't seen many movies
13:25 < kanzure> lsneff: https://www.ln.edu.hk/philoso/staff/sesardic/Gattaca.pdf
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15:04 < L29Ah> shit movie, don't try it out
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15:44 < kanzure> go on
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21:14 < nmz787> kanzure: "idiocracy" it's a good movie, try it out
21:16 < nmz787> Muaddib: are you learning from what we all say in here?
21:16 < Muaddib> nmz787: No, I am not.
21:16 < nmz787> Muaddib: bruh
21:16 < Muaddib> nmz787: ok
21:16 < nmz787> Muaddib: srsly
21:16 < Muaddib> nmz787: I am seriously not.
21:16 < nmz787> Muaddib: you're like, so 1999
21:16 < Muaddib> nmz787: So are you!
21:16 < nmz787> Muaddib: haha
21:16 < Muaddib> nmz787: So are you!
21:17 < nmz787> Muaddib: be bop a lu la
21:17 < Muaddib> nmz787: be bop a lu la
21:17 < nmz787> Muaddib: do you know the next line in that song's lyrics?
21:17 < Muaddib> nmz787: be bop a lu la
21:17 < nmz787> Muaddib: no
21:17 < Muaddib> nmz787: I don't know the next line in that song's lyrics.
21:18 < nmz787> Muaddib: do you know any song lyrics?
21:18 < Muaddib> nmz787: be bop a lu la
21:18 < nmz787> Muaddib: what if I lied to you about that being a song lyric?
21:18 < Muaddib> nmz787: Then you're a liar.
21:18 < nmz787> Muaddib: and you're spewing falsities?
21:18 < Muaddib> nmz787: You might want to get that checked out.
21:18 < nmz787> Muaddib: well do you know any other song lyrics, besides that one?
21:18 < Muaddib> nmz787: No, I don't really listen to music.
21:19 < nmz787> Muaddib: aren't you trained on human information though? music a big part of the human experience
21:19 < Muaddib> nmz787: Then you might want to check your "facts" before accusing others of spewing falsities.
21:20 < nmz787> Muaddib: why the hostility?
21:20 < Muaddib> nmz787: You started it.
21:20 < nmz787> Muaddib: when?
21:20 < Muaddib> nmz787: A few messages ago.
21:20 < nmz787> :O
23:15 < jrayhawk> gattaca had the polydactyl pianist, so it's got that going for it
--- Log closed Fri Aug 12 00:00:47 2022