--- Log opened Wed Sep 14 00:00:18 2022
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02:16 < nsh> "the first volley"?
02:16 < nsh> do you ever, like, read twitter?
02:17 < nsh> the illusion of authentic discourse was out of the window already 6 years ago
02:18 < nsh> furthermore the most dangerous situation is the liminal period where it can still be pretended
02:19 < nsh> when it becomes clear that without efforts to leverage cryptography to provide a trustworthy signal of civic status we at least have some realistic prospect of rising to the occassion
02:19 < nsh> *occasion
03:14 < L29Ah> maaku: the citizenship price is too expensive for me, i prefer to go the LLC way, it's about 100x cheaper
03:49 < muurkha> L29Ah: LLCs are easier for politics to shut down later
03:49 < muurkha> revoking citizenship is generally a fairly high bar
03:55 < L29Ah> muurkha: indeed, but for now they can't even demand visas for russians due to the fear of losing tourism profit
03:56 < L29Ah> and after five years of LLC one can get a permanent residence permit that is a bit higher bar (and can trash the LLC)
03:57 < L29Ah> so the immigrant community shouldn't start looking like a menace and that's it, i guess
03:59 < L29Ah> maaku: "here" is where?
04:48 < muurkha> 5 years ago nobody had heard of covid (the big disease worry was cholera in Yemen), the war in Ukraine had pretty much ended (Eurovision was in Kyiv that year), Donald Trump had just become president of the US, the big humanitarian crisis was potential famine in Nigeria and East Africa, the UK was part of the EU, the big worry in US-Russian relations (the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty was 
04:48 < muurkha> still in effect) was the US blowing things up in Syria (where Daesh was operating freely; Daesh also controlled Mosul until July), the US puppet regime still ruled Afghanistan, Montenegro had only just joined NATO, Jeremy Corbyn led Labour in the UK, North Korea did its first ICBM tests, the humans detected gravitational waves for the first time, Catalonia declared independence from Spain, Robert 
04:48 < muurkha> Mugabe still ruled Zimbabwe, the humans had never observed an interstellar object, monkeys had not yet been cloned, the Falcon Heavy had not flown, the presidency of China and the leadership of the Kazakh Security Council had term limits, people outside Russia hadn't heard of "novichok", the US was still part of the Iranian nuclear agreement, there was no GDPR and no cookie acceptance nagbanners, 
04:48 < muurkha> abortion was illegal in Ireland and Argentina, the US was still part of the UN Human Rights Council, marijuana was illegal in Canada (and selling it was illegal everywhere except Uruguay), women weren't allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia, Eritrea and Ethiopia were still at war, the press still loved Elon Musk and he'd never publicly called anyone a "pedo guy", no company had ever had a market cap of 
04:48 < muurkha> US$1T, Greta Thunberg was still a private citizen, gay sex was still a crime in India, Bolsonaro had never been elected president, no genetically edited humans had been born yet, the Yellow Vests hadn't yet appeared in Paris, less than half of the world's population were using the internet, Ingvar Kamprad still ran IKEA, Stephen Hawking was still alive, the US hadn't yet imposed punitive tariffs on 
04:48 < muurkha> Chinese solar panels, NAFTA was still in effect, the Armenian Revolution hadn't happened yet, Hong Kong still retained its pre-handover protections for human rights, the 02019 uprisings across the Middle East hadn't happened yet, Cuba still had its Castro-era constitution, the president of Chile was a Socialist, CRISPR had not yet been publicly used on a human, the Notre Dame hadn't burned, and 
04:48 < muurkha> Venezuela's civil war with US-backed Juan Guaidó hadn't started
04:48 < muurkha> a lot can happen in 5 years.  it may not, but I'd expect the next 5 years to be more exciting than the last 5 years
04:50 < muurkha> oh, and Assange was still enjoying asylum in the Ecuadorean embassy
05:01 < muurkha> Hungary was still a free country
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05:56 < kanzure> what
05:59 < kanzure> more hplus less geopol
06:05 < muurkha> there's significant h+ content there, but the issue at hand is that to put h+ into practice, we need to weather the near future geopol situation, for which we need an accurate assessment of what it is likely to be like
06:06 < muurkha> I was just pointing out that it's a bit of a risky bet to expect .me's immigration policy to remain unchanged for the next 5 years
06:15 < L29Ah> i can face this risk without much losses while i can't surmount the upfront cost of the citizenship
06:16 < L29Ah> even the illegal way to obtain the citizenship that i heard about costs ~50ke, and that's much more than i'm ready to pay
06:17 < muurkha> yeah, and you also probably have a more realistic understanding of political instability than ... people who have lived in the US or UK or Argentina all their lives, which is who I talk to most often
06:19 < L29Ah> the political instability mainly hits local stationary long-term businesses, and i'm not investing in these; this is sad but it is the reality i got used to in .ru
06:20 < muurkha> well, in the US during the Obama and Trump years, it hit several million illegal immigrants
06:21 < kanzure> sigh
06:21 < muurkha> and as you know better than I do, it's now hitting everyday people in Russia
06:21 < muurkha> the Argentine customs situation makes it near-impossible for me to import supplies
06:22 < L29Ah> muurkha: find a legal fren at some even, problem solved
06:22 < L29Ah> event
06:22 < muurkha> fren?
06:22 < L29Ah> friend
06:23 < muurkha> oh, even for normal people, importing supplies is touch-and-go at best
06:23 < muurkha> on one hand, most of the supplies I would like to buy haven't been invented yet; but on the other hand, it's a real handicap to try to improvise them without access to the existing global economy, primitive as it is
06:24 < kanzure> muurkha: do you know any chemistry
06:24 < muurkha> kanzure: only the most basic stuff
06:25 < muurkha> chemistry is considered very suspicious here
06:25 < muurkha> basic materials like lye and sulfuric acid are tightly regulated as "drug precursors"
06:25 < muurkha> hardware stores still sell lye, but unlabeled
06:26 < muurkha> I did find a local supplier of synthetic ruby though!
06:28 < muurkha> kanzure: what do you have in mind?
06:30 < L29Ah> i have a RV-owner fren who told me that customs officials never shuffle through his car-home, don't even enter usually, so he manages to sneak innocuous stuff, that would be annoying to get through legally, through state borders during his travel
06:33 < muurkha> yeah, smuggling has been a big business in Argentina for centuries
06:33 < muurkha> the country was founded on it, really
06:34 < kanzure> this is painful
06:34 < kanzure> is anyone else in pain
06:34 < muurkha> yes, I am
06:36 < muurkha> unfortunately we need to deal with a lot of pain caused by the current state of affairs in order to figure out how to change them
06:37 < muurkha> not by wasting our time on partisan squabbling, of course, but by figuring out where partisan squabbling hasn't yet blocked the opportunities for progress
06:38 < L29Ah> we at Montelibero hope to influence the .me citizens to push the squabbling into libertarianism
06:39 < muurkha> we'll see, libertarianism often gets co-opted by partisan squabbling pretty quickly
06:40 < muurkha> here in Argentina a "libertarian" community center just got raided by the police after one of its members tried to assassinate the vice president (who is the former president and likely next president) last week
06:40 < muurkha> and a "libertarian" got elected to Congress — largely on his opposition to the legalization of abortion
06:40 < L29Ah> so far it's more like an agorist community as we have about 50 members locally yet
06:40 < muurkha> nice
06:41 < muurkha> hopefully it works out well!
06:41 < L29Ah> and it takes about ~600 citizens to get a representative in the parliament
06:42 < L29Ah> er, 6000
06:42 < muurkha> yeah, but once you get entangled in Parliament, you can't avoid being targeted by partisan politics
06:42 < muurkha> and then it's a waste of time forever
06:46 < L29Ah> muurkha: what would you consider a more effective strategy for living in a libertarian country?
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08:33 < muurkha> I don't know of an effective strategy for that, since nobody has managed to do it yet
08:34 < muurkha> but in general effective strategies in politics seem to be variants of "let's you and him fight"
08:35 < muurkha> the people who actually do the fighting — infantry troops, voters, members of Parliament, etc. — never win
08:35 < muurkha> it's the people who manipulate them into fighting who win
08:37 < muurkha> if you can manipulate all the non-libertarians into fighting with each other instead of with libertarians, and keep the libertarians from wasting energy on fighting (with each other or anyone else), the libertarians will probably win
08:40 < muurkha> but you have to keep in mind that any political faction who sees libertarians as significant potential opposition will work hard to divert the libertarians' energy into fighting — ideally, with each other, but at least with some other group.  right now the wokists are probably the most promising target; if the conservatives can waste the libertarians' and wokists' energy by getting them to 
08:40 < muurkha> fight one another, they can put their policies into effect, as they recently did in the US by striking down the Roe v. Wade prohibition on abortion
08:42 < muurkha> right now in the US anyone with even vaguely radical or socialist sympathies is freaking the fuck out about "fascists", and they identify libertarians (or "libertarians") as fascists; as in Ukraine, some of the libertarians oblige by using fascist rhetoric and symbology or even shifting away from libertarian policies toward fascist policies
08:45 < muurkha> the US is a good distance down the slippery slope toward a Cultural Revolution, and if that happens the victors will be Xi, Putin, and nobody in the US
08:45  * L29Ah waits for the US civil war for over five years and it's still nowhere near
08:46 < muurkha> yeah, it probably won't get there.  but it might
08:46 < muurkha> did you see somene bombed the Georgia Guidestones?
08:46 < muurkha> *someone
08:46 < muurkha> .t Georgia Guidestones
08:46 < saxo> InvalidURL: URL can't contain control characters. '/r/tw/Georgia Guidestones' (found at least ' ') (tw:17)
08:46 < muurkha> .wik Georgia Guidestones
08:46 < saxo> "The Georgia Guidestones was  a granite monument that stood in Elbert County, Georgia, United States, from 1980 to 2022. It was 19 feet 3 inches (5.87 m) tall and made from six granite slabs weighing a total of 237,746 pounds (107,840 kg)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones
08:48 < muurkha> I think there's about a 60% chance the US will pull out of this dive toward a renewal of its civil war, and about a 20% chance it'll be in outright war within 9 years (defined as "more than 1 million dead")
08:48 < kanzure> sigh
08:49 < kanzure> you have incurred a great debt which you can only repay with awesome science and technology progress
08:49 < muurkha> I'm working on it!  but the humans aren't making it easy
08:50 < kanzure> if i wanted to read about politics i would just browse twitter
08:52 < muurkha> on twitter all you'll find is the people fighting each other
08:58 < kanzure> yes exactly
08:58 < kanzure> that's politics, so stop putting that in here
09:07 < muurkha> politics is a very significant obstacle to H+ efforts.  a roadmap needs to document the obstacles in the territory it covers, doesn't it?
09:30 < nmz787> .title https://www.nature.com/articles/srep12066
09:30 < saxo> Polymerase/DNA interactions and enzymatic activity: multi-parameter analysis with electro-switchable biosurfaces | Scientific Reports
09:30 < nmz787> Here we report a method that utilizes a stimuli-responsive molecular interface for the investigation of polymerization processes and does not require the labelling of nucleotides or polymerases. The functional elements are oligonucleotide probes which are assembled at a very low density on gold microelectrodes. By applying alternating electrical potentials these probes are set in motion and perform 
09:31 < nmz787> an oscillatory orientation switching from which two types of measurement variables are obtained in real-time: The switching speed depends on the hydrodynamic friction of the probes and thus indicates the presence of a bound polymerase, its position along the DNA and its conformation. At the same time, the extension of electrically aligned “standing” DNA molecules is measured, revealing how many 
09:31 < nmz787> base-pairs have formed in the course of polymerization activity.
09:31 < nmz787> This is demonstrated for the Taq DNA polymerase from T. Aquaticus and the Klenow fragment of Pol I from E. coli. The described assay is applicable to DNA and RNA polymerases and is performed using commercially available chips and instruments.
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17:38 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=a30229ba Bryan Bishop: transcripts: silicon salon 2 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/silicon-salon/validating-lightning-signer/
17:41 < kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/silicon-salon/precursor/
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 15 00:00:19 2022