--- Log opened Thu Sep 15 00:00:19 2022
00:18 < maaku> L29Ah: I'm in California (silicon valley)
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07:29 < kanzure> why is spam and encrypted email and web-of-trust still a problem when we have hashcash and encryption
07:33 < L29Ah> kanzure: because no one cares enough to implement all this
07:34 < kanzure> it can't be an issue of backwards incompatibility, right? there should be several ways to be backwards incompatible.
07:34 < kanzure> er, several ways to be backwards compatible.
07:36 < L29Ah> i even recall a paper describing an implementation of deep network of trust for gnupg, but it didn't end up in the upstream for some reason
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08:53 < ^ditto> [freenode] <web-38> amogus
08:58 < L29Ah> very
08:59 < nmz787> hot take: spam filters are discriminatory to people who are terrible at spelling
09:08 < kanzure> hashcash isn't tho
09:16 < superkuh> Because email has been co-opted by megacorps and they only care about receiving mail from other large email walled gardens.
09:18 < superkuh> I don't really have a problem with email spam though. It's easy to handle. Encrypted email is harder and you're right, there should be some common solution. I guess pgp/gpg's bare minimum function kept things from emerging for a long time.
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09:37 < nmz787> is hashcash yet-another-cryptocoin?
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09:39 < nmz787> is hashcash yet-another-cryptocoin?
09:39 < nmz787> superkuh: well I understand the corps' stance... they try to limit spammers using their services, and as such spammers then tend to run their own servers, which then gives a bad reputation to any "personal"/non-corp servers
09:40 < nmz787> (sorry ergo-split-keyboard fail)
09:40 < nmz787> at least I assume that's their stance
09:49 < L29Ah> nmz787: except it's not a coin as there's no transaction database
09:50 < L29Ah> and it pre-dates bitcoin
10:08 < nmz787> lul
10:09 < nmz787> transactions for bankers and criminals?
10:24 < kanzure> hashcash was a proof-of-work strategy for email where emails would include a hashcash stamp that showed that some amount of work went into sending the email
10:25 < kanzure> but it's not really "cash" or "money"
10:26 < kanzure> by making it costly to create a stamp (through proof-of-work) you could tell your mail client a threshold below which you will reject incoming email without a sufficiently strong stamp (maybe a few cents of compute time?)
10:30 < nmz787> that sounds like it just makes email more expensive
10:30 < nmz787> meaning poor folks are screwed
10:35 < kanzure> idea was that it would only be a second or two of compute time on your desktop
10:35 < sknebel> Problem with balancing cost of "small amounts of compute" so that it's ok even for users on bad hardware but not for spammers is that spammers just have botnets/free services use other peoples compute
10:38 < kanzure> well, you can whitelist people you know, and if your spam problem is high, you could increase your rates and post a public rate card...
10:39 < superkuh> Do you guys have spam problems?
10:40 < superkuh> I question weather it is actually a problem requiring so many sacrifices.
10:40 < superkuh> I even run a catch-all domain.
10:40 < superkuh> I don't think it is a problem for the walled garden email services either.
10:40 < superkuh> But it is an excuse.
10:42 < L29Ah> what sacrifices? a few seconds of cpu time?
10:43 < kanzure> bitcoin-dev mailing list has a spam problem (honestly i should just find the guy running the osuosl mailserver and get him to fix the spam filtering)
10:49 < superkuh> Having to implement yet another email verification service and the inevitable false positives.
10:49 < superkuh> Rather than just free communication with all peers.
10:56 < kanzure> https://metafluidics.org/devices/32-channel-controller/
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13:00 < docl> efficient supersonic is more of an unsolved problem than I consciously realized. overland commercial supersonic is banned by the FAA due to noise pollution complaints
13:00 < docl> .title https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/2016/webt-supersonic-flight-hush-sonic-boom.html
13:00 < saxo> Quick and Quiet: Supersonic Flight Promises to Hush the Sonic Boom | Lockheed Martin
13:02 < docl> for supersonic platforms to be viable, I think it needs to mostly recapture the pressure wave
13:03 < docl> I wonder if it heats up enough to ionize?
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14:28 < nmz787> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zylon
14:28 < nmz787> .wik zylon
14:28 < saxo> "Zylon (IUPAC name: poly(p-phenylene-2,6-benzobisoxazole)) is a trademarked name for a range of thermoset liquid-crystalline polyoxazole." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zylon
14:29 < nmz787> https://polymerinnovationblog.com/polymers-electronics-part-five-redistribution-layers-fan-wafer-level-packaging/
14:32 < muurkha> nmz787: if you like Zylon you might also be excited by polybenzimidazole
14:34 < muurkha> (the article also mentions garden-variety polyimide, polybenzoxazole, and benzocyclobutene, for the record)
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15:23 < kanzure> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvEB05xdAy4&t=2500s
15:23 < saxo> R.B. Woodward Total Synthesis of Vitamin B12 Lecture - Part 1 - YouTube
15:23 < Muaddib> [YvEB05xdAy4] R.B. Woodward Total Synthesis of Vitamin B12 Lecture - Part 1 (130:23)
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15:25 < kanzure> retrosynthetic analysis overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqF5JoU-YRQ (although it seems one would need access to a database)
15:25 < Muaddib> [uqF5JoU-YRQ] Retrosynthetic Analysis (8:36)
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18:09 < nmz787> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=9562536
18:09 < nmz787> .title
18:09 < saxo> A Die-Level, Replaceable Integrated Chiplet (PINCH) Assembly Using a Socketed Platform, Compressible MicroInterconnects, and Self-Alignment | IEEE Journals & Magazine | IEEE Xplore
18:29 < docl> muurkha: actually the speed of sound drops with altitude if we're talking about the stratosphere, so an equatorial sun-synchronous platform is even more supersonic at the equator. temperature and pressure go down without the composition changing much. temperature rises which increases it as you get to the thinner parts of the O3 layer which increases, then it drops again until you get to 100km and 
18:29 < docl> starts going way up due to the composition change to mostly hydrogen and helium
18:29 < docl> there's a graph here: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=speed+of+sound+in+the+troposphere+and+thermosphere
18:40 < docl> since you're not orbiting, (mostly countering earth's rotation, even) you don't get much lift at the pressures where you'd be subsonic. might be possible with very thin wings to cover a lot of surface area, but I don't think it's practical. wings work sort of by making a vacuum on top, so the amount of pressure per square meter to push against the bottom is low. it's fairly ionized though so I can't 
18:40 < docl> rule out there being another mechanism to exploit based on that
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18:46 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=2c4c0582 Bryan Bishop: transcript: austin bitcoin developers socratic seminar 32 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/austin-bitcoin-developers/2022-09-15-socratic-seminar-32/
19:06 < muurkha> docl: hmm, interesting
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--- Log closed Fri Sep 16 00:00:20 2022