--- Log opened Sun Sep 18 00:00:22 2022
01:45 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:51 < maaku> nmz787: you can get back to taking classes when they're in school
01:51 < maaku> i'm doing that now
01:52 < maaku> docl: sounds reasonable but did you mean to tag muurkha?
01:53 < maaku> I'm liking the amount of space launch stuff in the backlog though
04:56 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0::1909] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:23 < docl> maaku: yeah that was for muurkha 
06:26 < docl> lsneff: yeah actually I think I probably haven't met anyone here in person. I'm living in Idaho right now
06:32 < docl> nmz787: yeah, totally. adorable as all get out, but an attention sink for sure
06:40 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.bb.vodafone.cz] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:48 < muurkha> you can definitely get a Bernoulli-effect suction on the outer edge of a torus, yes
08:55 < docl> thought so! I wonder if there are interesting/unappreciated uses for this. maybe ultra high gas pressures can be maintained without a pressure vessel?
08:56 < docl> does the pressure reduction reduce the friction, enabling kinetic energy storage at a low cost? I'm imagining a hurricane drinker
08:59 < nmz787> maaku: we've been home-schooling so far, the goal is to send him to kindergarten next year tho
09:00 < nmz787> not sure I'll have enough other projects checked off my list by then, to be able to sanely start taking classes again
09:10 < docl> maaku: I think part of why I'm in science ideas brainstorming mode lately is I finally got back on vyvanse. (my regimen was interrupted by the move / paperwork for a few months)
09:16 < muurkha> I'm not sure how you'd get ultra high gas pressures by reducing the pressure below atmospheric with the Bernoulli effect
09:17 < docl> well the gas has to go somewhere if it's being sucked in from outside. it's low dynamic pressure but should be high hydrostatic pressure if I understand right. the high speed doesn't translate to a greater actual volume in the torus
09:22 < docl> hmm, looks like jordan sparks (oregon cryonics) hired a biology guy for the cryonics lab work, and has finished the new building
09:23 < docl> http://forum.oregoncryo.com/viewtopic.php?p=415#p415
09:26 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
09:32 < docl> muurkha: it's counterintuitive, but I can't see it not creating a plume of higher particle density if you let air in from outside, there's just nowhere else to go. and all the other walls of the torus are low dynamic pressure as well
09:33 < docl> maybe it also functions as a cooler though? every wall-bounce robs some of the non-directionalized momentum?
09:35 < muurkha> I suspect you have gotten dynamic pressure and hydrostatic pressure interchanged
09:36 < muurkha> maybe it would be worthwhile to code up a simulation and see if you can reproduce the venturi effect
09:37 < docl> ah, I might have them interchanged, checking wiki
09:38 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:42 < muurkha> aside from the stuff people do in weather simulations and stuff, there's a common 2-D Navier-Stokes simulation that people code up for visual effects; that might be a good starting point
09:43 < muurkha> there's a Coding Train video where the guy walks you through it
10:18 < docl> awesome, I somehow hadn't heard of the coding train
10:19 < docl> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alhpH6ECFvQ
10:19 < Muaddib> [alhpH6ECFvQ] Coding Challenge #132: Fluid Simulation (54:31)
10:19 < saxo> Coding Challenge #132: Fluid Simulation - YouTube
11:55 < fenn> i found this amusing, unsure if accurate. comparison of "just throw the head into liquid nitrogen" vs "the best vitrification tech currently available" http://forum.oregoncryo.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=124
11:58 < fenn> is anyone else besides nectome intending to offer aldehyde-stabilized cryonics as a service?
12:12 < fenn> oh, oregon cryonics is likely to pursue aledhyde-stabilized cryonics
12:13 < fenn> hmm. jordan sparks says "The chance of biological revival is not the slightest bit reduced by the use of aldehyde. The reason is that there is other damage which is far more significant. The presence of some crosslinks is, by comparison, trivial to fix."
12:13 < fenn> which is clearly incorrect
12:13 < fenn> anyway he seems more interested in digital uploads these days
12:18  * L29Ah aldehyde-stabilizes fenn
12:29 < kanzure> just huff some crosslinker you know you want to
12:29 < kanzure> (to be cited as the jonestown crosslinker incident)
12:37 < docl> I'm not convinced there's a significant probability space containing revivals from cryonics that don't also contain revivals from aldehyde + cryonics
12:37 < docl> I would of course qualify that heavily -- there is significant improvement possible for cryonics which would change that
12:56 < fenn> probably 90% of alcor's patients were incorrectly done even by their own procedures, which may not work even when done according to spec in the best of circumstances
12:57 < fenn> the lack of an organizational accountability process or a market feedback mechanism is concerning
12:58 < fenn> maybe we need a cryonics underwriters association to provide unbiased third party assessments of quality of service
13:01 < fenn> "When a patient is admitted to a hospital for a routine medical procedure there is usually an obvious expectation of what the desired outcome should be – even to people without a medical background. ... In cryonics, however..."
13:03 < fenn> btw "90%" was a figure i pulled out of my ass
13:04 < fenn> to their credit they do maintain a reasonably transparent catalog of patient cryopreservation data and note egregious incidents in the log
13:04 < fenn> it's just that this doesn't end up being translated into fixing the process that resulted in those incidents so that it doesn't happen again
13:05 < fenn> instead we are too busy worrying on twitter about what the CEO may or may not have implied in the 1980s in a libertarian zine
13:08 < fenn> i wonder if we can calculate refractive index of brain tissue from near-IR scattering
13:08 < TMA> well, normally we expect dead people stay dead indefinitely; the exploration of other possibilities in fiction yields overwhelmingly scary narratives (zombie apocalypse) with some rare exceptions (The Case of the Carpenter from Nazareth)
13:09 < TMA> I am just saying, that the baseline expectation for death-reversal procedure is basically: "I hope it does not work"
13:12 < fenn> unless it's YOUR dog
13:15 < TMA> Ah, yes. I am normally a bit depressed, therefore a deathist (I don't want my dysthymia to continue indefinitely). But when my grandmother died I wished for her to be preserved, making me a lifeist for a while.
13:17 < fenn> i don't agree that deathism and depression are necessarily related
13:20 < fenn> many religions have this concept of a happy place where there is no suffering, which is often used to justify deathism. a depressed person may wish for simply the suffering to end, or may fantasize about going to the happy place where there is no suffering. it's not quite the same, and different people may end up with different fixations
13:45 < fenn> damn i wish chocolate would cause me to go do the task instead of internetting harder
13:50 < fenn> ugh i stored desenex foot powder in a small ziploc bag in the same pocket as my supplement cpasules and now they all taste like it
13:50 < fenn> special gross foot powder flavor
13:50 < kanzure> but why do you know what foot powder tastes like
13:50 < fenn> it tastes just like it smells
13:51 < fenn> the nearby capsules do anyway
13:51 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE4UXdJSJM4&t=20s
13:51 < Muaddib> [lE4UXdJSJM4] Full Interview with a GNU/Linux user in 2022 - Partition 1 (5:59)
14:03 < fenn> the ongoing flamewar over whether his name is pronounced goo-ics or gwicks
14:03 < superkuh> That's about right.
14:12 < maaku> docl: what part of idaho?
14:14 < maaku> docl: isn't this how the original/real flying saucer worked? jet flowing over a spinning saucer wing
14:14 < docl> maaku: I'm in nampa. pretty centrally located between where my folks are (parma) and boise
14:14 < maaku> docl: I need to get back on vyvanse... been off for the better part of a year
14:15 < maaku> fenn: we need a new cryonics organization. want to set it up?
14:15 < docl> possibly, haven't dug into the flying saucer rabbit hole much. would make sense if there was one doing something counterintuitive with air jets
14:16 < maaku> we also need late night infomercials on basic cable selling cryonics insurance plans. i'm not even joking
14:16 < maaku> docl: it was sortof the answer to "what would a jet helicopter look like?"
14:17 < maaku> the structure was dynamically unstable though, and couldn't really be flown with 1950's technology.
14:17 < maaku> now though, I think it's an idea worth revisiting
14:17 < maaku> docl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar
14:18 < maaku> no mention of spin there though. maybe i'm misremembering
14:19 < maaku> > Service ceiling: 10,000 ft (3,000 m) (estimated), 3 ft (0.91 m) (actual)
14:19 < maaku> lol
14:38 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
14:45 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:03 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in]
15:05 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:39 < L29Ah> that contraption reminded me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JH1_ZKV7t4
15:39 < Muaddib> [7JH1_ZKV7t4] The Spinning Drone Paradox (8:44)
15:41 -!- spaceangel [~spaceange@ip-78-102-216-202.bb.vodafone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:59 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:29 -!- Guest5218 [~Guest52@85-156-109-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #hplusroadmap
16:56 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
18:22 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0::1909] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:36 < docl> thinking about how to make cheap circular underground tunnels, starting with trenches. if you drive down stakes in a circular shape, then wrap a string around them, you can cut soft dirt by a few cm by pulling the string along. rocks would be beyond it. however, with a little binder you could get dirt to stick to it as a crude ceramic. that would both protect the string and increase its cutting power
18:38 < docl> the ceramic would be brittle enough that you don't want to bend it too much at a time, which means the polygon of stakes can't be too sharp edged. but it should be able to take a degree or so
18:39 -!- Guest5218 [~Guest52@85-156-109-34.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
18:41 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:41 < docl> once you get to the desired depth, you could unspool more thread to the sides, making it a belt. then you can dig up by pressurizing the bottom or down by pressurizing the top (after filling in the trench)
18:43 < docl> when you get the ability to apply pressure, you can maybe use sintering instead of binder for most of the additional construction. it would tend to create a lot of homogeneous dust averaged from the whole circle, which should make a decent ceramic that way
18:43 < L29Ah> i think your "a little binder" idea is a little beyond reality
18:44 < docl> the cool thing is it isn't complex to automate, so no need for construction crews. just some engines and rollers
18:44 < L29Ah> try digging something with "a little binder"-based tool, you'll be disappointed
18:44 < L29Ah> an excavator is some engines and rollers btw
18:44 < L29Ah> could be hacked easily to run circles, but won't handle too big rocks
18:48 < docl> this also makes the trenches narrower than can be easily done with other approaches. if you have 1cm of dirt based ceramic on a 1mm string it's a 1cm trench
18:48 < docl> which could be driven deep
18:50 < docl> like, you can use blades like a chainsaw to make trenches but hard to get very deep with that
18:54 < docl> the overall mechanical complexity of even a single excavator is way higher than a single piece of thread moving continuously around some poles stuck in the ground with some engines pulling it around in a circle
19:04 < docl> "a little binder" -> binders are something you mix with powders to fill in the cracks to make them stuck together. you need less of the binder than the stuff you're sticking together. for example, in asphalt it's typically 5-6%
19:05 < docl> the ratio for ceramics appears to be similar
19:06 < docl> e.g. this supplier says to use 2.5-5% https://www.chempoint.com/insights/methocel-ceramic-binder-processing-aid
19:06 < docl> so I really don't get why you think that's a funny idea
19:10 < docl> also automating a mobile piece of complex equipment to "run around in circles" doing work that usually needs a human operator is obviously a much harder thing than setting up some stationary equipment to keep a string moving or keep applying a binder to its surface continuously
20:59 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has quit [Killed (tungsten.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))]
20:59 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:26 -!- Croran [~Croran@71.231.214.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
22:33 -!- Croran [~Croran@71.231.214.173] has joined #hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Mon Sep 19 00:00:23 2022