--- Log opened Mon Dec 19 00:00:49 2022
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06:13 < nsh> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYH8CQS6Ab0
06:13 < saxo> YOW! 2016 John Lamping - The One Weird Trick for Analyzing Big Data ... Eyeball it Early and Often! - YouTube
06:13 < Muaddib> [jYH8CQS6Ab0] YOW! 2016 John Lamping - The One Weird Trick for Analyzing Big Data ... Eyeball it Early and Often! (33:24)
06:14 < nsh> (John Lamping figured out (in the sense of Lévy) how to optimally reduce lambda calculus expressions)
06:14 < nsh> now he works in human longevity and all that hubris y'all are into
06:21 < nsh> 5 minutes belabouring the point of externalities lol
06:22 < nsh> i forget how stupid everyone is until i see them being incredibly verbosely excited over a trivial idea that took half a second to grasp two decades ago
06:30 < kanzure> fenn: what about asking them for a backup
06:30 < kanzure> they could probably even sell it
06:31 < L29Ah> nsh: that's how you earn monies on youtube, son
06:31 < nsh> true
06:31 < nsh> at the peril of your immortal soul
06:31 < nsh> or at least, dignity
06:31 < L29Ah> do e-thots have souls?
06:32 < L29Ah> Muaddib: do e-thots have souls?
06:32 < Muaddib> L29Ah: That depends on how you define a soul....
06:32 < nsh> Muaddib, what might be some modern examples of the classical narrative trope of selling ones soul in a bargain with the devil for wordly gain?
06:32 < Muaddib> nsh: An example of selling one's soul in exchange for worldly gain in the modern world might be the pervasive influence of money, fame, and power. The temptation to compromise one's principles in pursuit of these goals can be strong, and can lead to compromised moral values.
06:33 < nsh> Muaddib, how might one go about compromising their moral values these days using examples of modern trends in culture and technology?
06:33 < Muaddib> nsh: One way to compromise one's moral values these days is through social media. With the ability to pressure and influence people with the click of a button, it's easier than ever to convince someone to do something they wouldn't normally do in exchange for likes, shares, and followers.
06:33 < nsh> indeed
06:33 < nsh> Muaddib, can you give three more examples along the same lines as above?
06:33 < Muaddib> nsh: Sure thing! Other modern trends that can lead to compromises in moral values include the pursuit of material possessions, such as expensive cars and designer clothes; gambling for financial gain; and a focus on physical appearance to the point of obsessing over minor flaws.
06:34 < L29Ah> .t https://aip.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.5085251
06:34 < saxo> Cookie Absent
06:34 < nsh> .in 3y have preachers been replaced by AI yet?
06:34 < saxo> nsh: Will remind at 19 Dec 2025 08:34:20 UTC
06:35 < L29Ah> a fren replicated that paper today and made a SEM probe out of a 90µm tungsten wire with a household gas burner
06:35 < nsh> nice
06:36 < L29Ah> https://tinystash.undef.im/il/2xveEt9Lkr3kADKV8FdENimXcpyrRbz7omaE3xAh2Yg8urUuMtHbXsgcdbEdDscVDarfrLdusjsdzGr9F4wPAMwaquRE1qh8H4YYjkdeZAjsmu.jpg
06:37 < kanzure> nsh: machines aren't allowed to recite scripture
06:37 < L29Ah> https://cs.pikabu.ru/post_img/2013/07/15/7/1373884473_1570139098.jpg
06:38 < L29Ah> there's a robo-pope character in .ru memesphere
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06:40 < nsh> (maybe patriarch rather than pope)
06:41 < nsh> 'The supreme governing bodies of the Russian Orthodox Church are the local council, the bishops' council and the holy synod chaired by the patriarch of Moscow and All Russia. The patriarch is elected for life. The local council consists of the bishops and representatives of the clergy, monks and laity.'
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08:46 < muurkha> L29Ah: huh, "flame etching"
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12:14 < kanzure> using somatic cell lineage tracing as a human longevity biomarker https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.12.14.520419v1
12:14 < kanzure> or mutation tracing, rather.
12:14 < kanzure> from attilla csordas
14:37 < kanzure> "Loss of epigenetic information as a cause of mammalian aging" https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3951490
15:55 < FourFire> kanzure, do you think the field is close to making a standardized set of biomarkers for aging?
16:24 < kanzure> i haven't been paying close attention to aging biomarkers
18:57 < fenn> how did nsh get Muaddib to answer a simple question?
18:58 < fenn> Muaddib, how might one go about creating a map of the cat?
18:58 < Muaddib> fenn: By following the trails of furballs, whiskers and hairballs, of course!
18:59 < fenn> Muaddib, can you provide three industry standard methods of feline cartography?
18:59 < Muaddib> fenn: Paw prints, fur patterns, and meows.
19:13 < fenn> fourfire there is too much economic incentive for your company's biomarkers to "win" for anybody to agree to agree
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19:24 < fenn> i thought methylation goes up with aging so i'm having a hard time imagining that as information loss
19:24 < fenn> graph of methylation (beta) vs age https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/gb-2013-14-9-r102/figures/1
19:29 < fenn> restoring a specific pattern of methylation in most of the cells of the body would be difficult
19:30 < fenn> fortunately, i think epigenetic clocks are a "symptom" and not a cause
19:31 < fenn> it's possible to delay or advance epigenetic clocks with lifestyle interventions e.g. exercise
19:44 < fenn> hmm.. "Active DNA demethylation of the paternal chromosomes is an important part of the early development of the fertilized zygote. TET-mediated DNA demethylation is likely to be critical for this process."
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19:45 < fenn> so maybe the program to generate a youthful methylation pattern is already there and just needs to be reactivated
19:46 < fenn> i really should read more about epigenetics in aging
19:54 < muurkha> my hypothesis about cellular aging is that it prevents cancer
19:54 < muurkha> this is surely not original to me
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20:29 < fenn> cancer risk goes up with age
20:30 < fenn> due to the thymus shrinking i believe
20:34 < muurkha> cancer risk certainly does go up with age, but my hypothesis is that that's sort of unavoidable
20:35 < muurkha> I mean the longer your cells haven't gone through a genetic bottleneck, the more "they have an incentive to compete"
20:40 < fenn> they always have an incentive to compete
20:40 < fenn> mutational load goes up due to random damage, sure
20:42 < fenn> a healthy immune system will detect and destroy cancerous cells before they become a problem. what process reliably stops this from happening?
20:42 < fenn> well, often
20:44 < fenn> if cellular aging is solely a mechanism to prevent cancers, you'd expect thymus cancer to be a common problem, because letting the thymus cells go wild into old age will prevent many other cancers
20:44 < fenn> thymus cancer is one in a million
20:45 < fenn> about 1% of all cancers
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20:55 < L29Ah> 05:42:13]<fenn> a healthy immune system will detect and destroy cancerous cells before they become a problem. what process reliably stops this from happening?
20:55 < L29Ah> the fact that the rate of getting new (and more exotic) cancerous mutations grows over time, due to accumulating non-cancerous DNA damage in cells
20:56 < L29Ah> ideally you should have tissue-specific DNAs backed up in a lead vault and new cells produced for you from that reference
20:57 < L29Ah> meanwhile immune cells{, predecessors} are getting mutations as well, and otherwise tend to go haywire
20:58  * L29Ah have acquired some annoying allergy at ~25yo
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21:55 < L29Ah> https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3612786
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--- Log closed Tue Dec 20 00:00:50 2022