--- Log opened Tue Jan 24 00:00:23 2023
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01:54 < muurkha> Drexler mentions he's been spending his time at FHI at Oxford; isn't that Nick Bostrom's group?
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02:35 < adlai> has anyone ever tried doing summaries of this channel and/or the news spaces that get linked from here?
02:36 < adlai> by 'summaries', I mean something useful for someone at my resolution of disconnect; i.e., more of a weekly magazine than "here are 8 hours of headlines for your toilet reading"
02:42 < adlai> in conversations with older folks [approximately 'boomer' generation], one suggestion frequently encountered for improving mental health is to disconnect from the daily news firehose
02:43 < adlai> the older folks who do this, seem to stay subscribed to various weekly magazines, delegating the task of stomaching realtime news to professional editors.
03:28 < muurkha> the daily news firehose is also mostly wrong
03:29 < muurkha> quite aside from the mental health aspect
03:29 < muurkha> even weekly news is mostly wrong
03:34 < adlai> I'm much less interested in tertiary sources than secondary aggregation of primaries (irc, journals, public statements of individuals actually doing things, etc)
03:35 < adlai> it simply pisses me off that all the folks doing aggregating, with whom I've spoken, seem to think nobody reads news at frequencies low enough to justify taking an entire week before deciding whether anything is newsworthy.
03:53 < hprmbridge> kanzure> adlai: feel free to make summaries yourself, i'm sure people would read them.. or use gpt-3. could also be useful to have semantic search over the logs.
03:54 < muurkha> well, clearly they are mistaken
03:55 < muurkha> I edited the weekly Python-URL for a while, which was kind of like that, though obviously for Python stuff rather than H+
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05:32 < kanzure> also, i hope you don't see this as a news channel; a few of us do have differently relevant projects that are of interest.
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06:25 < muurkha> we do talk about news a lot
06:30 < kanzure> maybe we should ban that
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07:16 < kanzure> https://lilianweng.github.io/posts/2021-07-11-diffusion-models/
07:20 < muurkha> I think I learn a lot from the news, but I might be fooling myself.
07:21 < kanzure> projects are usually the way to make progress
07:22 < muurkha> agreed
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08:22 < adlai> kanzure: it is often a link-dump without any conversation.
08:23  * adlai can't help but consider all suggestions involving GPT and its various iterations to be similar to "why don't you pay my cousin's retard nephew to tie your shoelaces, you spend too much energy doing that yourself"
08:31  * L29Ah has a monopoly on brushing his teeth, and this sucks
08:39 < adlai> you never allow dental hygienists to do more thorough work?
09:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.nanolett.1c02847
09:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787>
09:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Bringing Electrochemical Three-Dimensional Printing to the Nanoscale
09:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787>
09:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Julian Hengsteler, Barnik Mandal, Cathelijn van Nisselroy, Genevieve P. S. Lau, Tilman Schlotter, Tomaso Zambelli, and Dmitry Momotenko
09:05 < L29Ah> adlai: yeah, it doesn't seem cost-effective
09:05 < hprmbridge> nmz787> """Herein, we employed quartz nanopipettes with opening diameters of 1.6±0.7, 2±1, 45±10 and 253±88 nm as print nozzles. As the probability of aperture clogging by the electrodeposited feature increases at the nanoscale, we introduced an automated feedback mechanism that eliminates this issue."""
09:09 < hprmbridge> nmz787> adlai: I basically don't look at the news... unless for whatever reason Google decides to put something in my swipe-down menu, or on the "new tab" page
09:12 < L29Ah> i subscribed to lifespan.io news recently
09:13 < L29Ah> otherwise my news firehose are the chats i idle in and µblogs i subscribed to
09:14 < superkuh> http://superkuh.com/feeds9.html http://superkuh.com/2022-11-04-feedlist.opml
09:16 < L29Ah> doesn't seem like you actually read all these
09:17 < superkuh> Certainly not. I skim through the titles of most categories a couple times a week.
09:17 < superkuh> I only read a small fraction.
09:25 < kanzure> nmz787: consistent pipette fabrication is an interesting problem
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09:51 < maaku> muurkha: he was at Bostrom's group. he is now at Astera
09:52 < maaku> [Drexler]
09:52 < muurkha> maaku: I wonder if that was an influence on Bostrom endorsing a totalitarian surveillance approach to reducing x-risk
09:53 < muurkha> nmz787: thanks for the link, that's pretty great
09:53 < maaku> I think Bostrom has been advocating that since before Drexler was involved, but maybe it had an impact
10:10 < hprmbridge> nmz787> kanzure FIB can normalize pipette tips... I've cut them in my FIB and the other FIB I originally trained on
10:11 < hprmbridge> nmz787> with some automation (tool holder sort of stuff) they could be trimmed/cleaned up relatively fast.... like a minute or three each
10:23 < kanzure> what were you cutting? glass?
10:23 < hprmbridge> nmz787> yeah
10:24 < hprmbridge> nmz787> coated in carbon first, to make conductive to the cut beam
10:24 < hprmbridge> nmz787> later the carbon can be ashed off with oxygen/residual-air plasma
10:25 < hprmbridge> nmz787> or like, they could be coated in gold if you wanna be fancy, and don't care to restore optical clarity through the tip (Though optics at that scale is likely gonna require monochromatic light, and maybe super-resolution)
10:26 < hprmbridge> nmz787> your cell will likely be way bigger, if you're talking about microinjection
10:26 < hprmbridge> nmz787> but organelles and such, would be smaller
10:30 < kanzure> are there nanopipettes used for organelle sampling in practice? like organelle patch clamp or something?
10:35 < kanzure> here someone did lysosome patch clamp https://web.sas.upenn.edu/ren-lab/research-overview/endolysosome/
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11:39 < adlai> nmz787: what is that three-letter acronym, 'FIB' ?
11:41 < adlai> L29Ah: I have, multiple times in my life, stood hungover/withdrawing/grumpy/etc in front of the mirror, and told myself that brushing teeth is going to be my number one cumulative regret when my life gets mapreduced in front of my dying third eye... yet still, I own brush, buy the occasional tube of paste, etc
11:41 < kanzure> focused ion beam
11:41 < adlai> ... and even pay the professionals, occasionally.
11:41 < kanzure> adlai: have you tried dry brushing
11:42 < adlai> no, how dry we talking?
11:43 < kanzure> you just brush
11:43 < adlai> supposedly the feral human toothbrush is simply chewing on some twig and using that instead of plastic bristles and creamy pharmaceutical crap full of more ions than can be sketched on one napkin
11:44  * adlai always reckoned that truly feral humans would die from violence younger than starvation due to tooth decay would have significant effect, although civilisation matures in unexpected ways
11:46 < adlai> I suppose one extreme would be to never brush myself, and visit professionals maybe once weekly
11:46 < kanzure> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31584031/
11:46 < adlai> although, that would probably get expensive; even if all you consider is the resources, and pretend the invisible hand will work out fair prices for the monetary values.
11:47 < adlai> .title
11:47 < kanzure> bot is currently on strike
11:47 < adlai> good for bot! too many people cheapening the value of artificial workers
11:49 < adlai> "Aims: This study was aimed to assess the efficacy of wet and dry brushing on cleaning outcome of tooth surfaces."
11:51 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Jrayhawk should have info on not brushing. Or did you alter your dental practices since (a decade ago?)?
11:51 < adlai> "Conclusions: Dry and wet brushing did not show a significant difference in their capacity to remove plaque [...]" and the study was of 43 preteens, ffs; what sort of rigor is that!?
11:52 < adlai> I suppose it removes lots of confounding factors
11:53 < adlai> once upon a time, I expected that clinical studies all were conducted on cohorts of adults compensated to live in a research hospital and do nothing except for abstain from smoking tobacco while obeying the study instructions
11:54 < adlai> now, some studies actually do have the participants segregated from the world like this, although it's far from the most common. the most common is more similar to that tooth brushing study, where they give kids some instructions and touch base one week later to gargle charcoal.
11:55 < adlai> are most people honest participants in such studies? ... depends, what were the regulations, what could be the penalties of violation, etc
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12:23 < jrayhawk> plaque is only as pathological as its contents, same as an appendix
12:24 < jrayhawk> its contents are more controlled by your immune system and diet than by brushing
12:25 < jrayhawk> if you want your teeth to be polished to a shiny white, though, brushing remains the most sensible way of doing so
12:31 < jrayhawk> calcium homeostasis is dependent upon osteocalcin is dependent upon menatetrenone, retinoids, and vitamin d https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/beyond-good-and-evil/#:~:text=a%20balance%20between
12:35 < jrayhawk> immunology is more individualistic, though epithelial integrity and long-chain essential fatty acids seem to be universally important areas of concern
12:35 < jrayhawk> along with aforementioned fat-soluable vitamins
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 25 00:00:24 2023