--- Log opened Tue Jan 31 00:00:30 2023
03:25 -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-59-252-206.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:09 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0::4249] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:31 -!- hellleshin [~talinck@108-225-123-172.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:31 -!- hellleshin [~talinck@108.225.123.172] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:59 -!- deltab [~deltab@user/deltab] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
06:00 -!- deltab [~deltab@user/deltab] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:02 -!- TMM_ [hp@136.243.23.165] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
06:03 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:11 < muurkha> fenn: this idea of coating things in naphthalene to scan them is pretty cool
09:38 -!- cthlolo [~lorogue@77.33.23.154.dhcp.fibianet.dk] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:46 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:57 < kanzure> ".. we're funding work at Keinice Bio, whose groundbreaking cryopreservation technology employs ultra-cold helium gas in lieu of traditional liquid perfusates. This method results in vitrification so rapid that no biologically significant ice crystal formation occurs, whilst also avoiding the toxicity associated with traditional cryoprotectants"
10:08 < muurkha> wow, that's fantastic
10:08 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Link?
10:09 < kanzure> https://levf.org/
10:11 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Very interesting
10:11 < hprmbridge> lachlan> For organ transplants
11:55 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamamoe@46.204.77.68.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:00 -!- cthlolo [~lorogue@77.33.23.154.dhcp.fibianet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:37 < muurkha> potentially very interesting for freezing your head too
12:38 < kanzure> there was some rant somewhere- or it was conveyed to me in person- about why we should be doing gas perfusion instead of liquid
12:38 < kanzure> possibly this was a rant from mike darwin
12:43 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamamoe@46.204.77.68.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:46 < hprmbridge> docl> are they doing anything of significant size? that's where vitrification by cooling very fast gets tricky
12:47 < hprmbridge> docl> I know mike darwin has ranted about persufflation, might be a blog post on chronopause about it
12:47 < kanzure> fenn may have been party to this rant and might remember
12:50 < Llamamoe> What's chronopause?
12:51 < muurkha> docl, agreed, but you ought to be able to squirt cold helium through inflated capillaries quite a bit faster than you can do it with liquids
12:53 < fenn> does gas perfusion mean you run helium through the veins?
12:56 < muurkha> Yes, that's what we're talking about; quoting from almost three hours ago:
12:56 < muurkha> 17:57 < kanzure> ".. we're funding work at Keinice Bio, whose groundbreaking cryopreservation technology employs ultra-cold helium gas in
12:56 < muurkha> lieu of traditional liquid perfusates. This method results in vitrification so rapid that no biologically significant ice
12:56 < muurkha> crystal formation occurs, whilst also avoiding the toxicity associated with traditional cryoprotectants"
12:57 < fenn> it wasn't obvious that it would be pumped through the veins
12:57 < fenn> so, why is this a new thing?
13:00 < muurkha> Presumably through the veins, the arteries, and the capillaries, no? Isn't that what you do with perfusates in vitrification? Maybe I'm making an unjustified inference here.
13:00 < kanzure> i remember one about pumping it into lungs to help cool core body temp
13:01 < kanzure> by "i remember" i mean "i barely remember"; not my fault this is all poorly documented. maybe nobody was working on it so someone picked it up.
13:01 < fenn> it just seems like something that could have been done at any time in the last 50 years
13:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> @eleitl Do you have a reference for gas perfusion cryonics?
13:03 < muurkha> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryopreservation#Persufflation suggests it dates to at least 02013
13:03 < muurkha> and, yes, I agree that it seems like it could have been done at any time in the last 50 years
13:03 < fenn> keinice bio seems to be run by tanya jones of alcor
13:03 < muurkha> possibly there are non-obvious difficulties
13:04 < hprmbridge> docl> I guess he titled the blog chronosphere but the domain name was chronopause
13:04 < hprmbridge> docl> http://chronopause.com/
13:11 < hprmbridge> docl> I remember something about pumping cold saline into the lungs, not helium. Can't find the persufflation rant anywhere, but I know Mike Darwin described the idea to me in person at one point.
13:37 < kanzure> colossal (mammoth resuscitation project) raised $150m https://twitter.com/itiscolossal/status/1620421772167315456
13:37 < fenn> wow if only we could get that kind of funding for resuscitating humans
13:38 < fenn> i guess the mammoth project has better odds of success
13:39 < fenn> dodo project*
13:39 < kanzure> are you referring to a proto-ancestor that we killed off?
13:40 < fenn> i'm referring to cryonics as a field being chronically underfunded
13:40 < fenn> you said resuscitation and i was just reading mike darwin's blog
13:42 < fenn> why are people "investing" in de-extinction companies? is it supposed to make money?
13:43 < fenn> i find it odd that it's couched as a startup with the typical VC funding language
13:45 < kanzure> maybe they will be selling dodos to zoos?
13:45 < fenn> is the idea that governments and nonprofits will pay more to de-extinct organisms in the future?
13:45 < fenn> i dont think zoos have that kind of money
13:47 < kanzure> disney's animal kingdom has >10 million guests/year, multiply that by a few dollars per guest
13:47 < fenn> looks like they're using left handed dna technology
13:48 < fenn> (wrong handed helix on the pigeon)
13:48 < kanzure> they are supposed to be here in austin, maybe i will go say hello
13:51 < fenn> i'd like to see colossal's answer to why developing the capability for de-extincting species won't just make humans even more careless about causing extinctions in the first place
13:54 < kanzure> if we keep feeding growth hormones to crocodiles can we open jurassic park
13:56 < fenn> cassowaries?
13:58 < fenn> they're proceeding from the bubble where every person cares deeply about animal conservation and protection, and if everyone thought like that, then indeed de-extinction would make sense. but a lot of people are poor ignorant subsistence farmers or ranchers and there is a direct conflict of interests between keeping their family alive and keeping the animals alive, and we know how that choice goes
13:59 < fenn> "rich western scientists can just de-extinct it in the future" becomes an excuse to slash and burn with abandon
14:03 < L29Ah> 22:42:38] why are people "investing" in de-extinction companies? is it supposed to make money?
14:03 < L29Ah> i think Steller's cow could be a quite profitable cattle
14:06 < fenn> there are similar creatures alive today; dugong, manatee. why aren't they farmed then?
14:07 < fenn> it seems like an insufficient reason
14:09 < kanzure> oh hmm there's an idea
14:13 < L29Ah> > Even in the best conditions, a population is unlikely to increase more than 5% a year
14:13 < L29Ah> this makes dugong awful cattle
14:13 < L29Ah> manatees are farmed it seems
14:13 < kanzure> hm? we should try artificial insemination of dugong just like any other industrial livestock
14:14 < kanzure> evidence of manatee as livestock?
14:14 < kanzure> we have a population of 50 billion chickens that we produce each year, we might as well have a few hundred million manatees and rhinoceros
14:15 < kanzure> (would you eat unicorn i mean rhinoceros to support global conservation?)
14:18 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamamoe@46.204.77.68.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
14:32 < fenn> rhinoceros beetle grubs
14:33 < fenn> kinda looks like a dumpling? https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1076/1438532552_8c92f1536a.jpg
14:35 < fenn> witchetty grubs are apparently pretty tasty: https://www.canesbarandgrill.com/wp-content/uploads/Witchetty-grub.jpg
14:35 < fenn> high fat content
14:35 < fenn> why did industrial scale algae culture never happen?
14:36 < L29Ah> https://www.facebook.com/sunrisemanateefarms/ ok not sure if trolling or real enterprise
14:36 < L29Ah> rhinoceros farming sounds dangerus
14:36 < fenn> spirulina is confined to the supplement industry only, but it totally could be used for animal feed or refined into food additives
14:37 < fenn> and there are better performing algae than spirulina, like chlorella
14:37 * L29Ah waits eagerly for duckweed-as-food research
14:37 < fenn> that too
14:37 < L29Ah> at least i can see duckweed and strain it easily
14:37 < fenn> spirulina settles out with gravity
14:38 < L29Ah> still washing it to remove the growing medium would be a PITA
14:39 < L29Ah> or just very slow
14:40 < fenn> hmm apparently the preferred harvesting method is flocculation and skimming
14:40 < fenn> they have gas vesicles for neutral buoyancy
14:41 < fenn> so, plants lose a ton of water because they need to exchange CO2 and O2 with the air, whereas algae doesn't have this problem
14:43 < fenn> CAM plants can uptake CO2 at night and store it for the day when it is hot and they would lose more water to transpiration
14:45 < fenn> "the reason for CAM in aquatic plants is not due to a lack of available water, but a limited supply of CO2. CO2 is limited due to slow diffusion in water, 10000x slower than in air."
14:46 < fenn> so maybe closed solar bioreactors with aquatic CAM plants being fed CO2 directly in the water
14:46 < fenn> or C4 aquatic plants
14:47 < fenn> or maybe nanocatalysts that directly generate short chain hydrocarbons will render all of this moot
14:59 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has quit [Quit: the new machine the parts]
15:34 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
15:37 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:56 < hprmbridge> MatthewGoodman> CO2 isn't the limiting factor for most, iirc it's iron, you can cause huge blooms with seeding
18:10 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
18:16 -!- Jay_Dugger [~jwd@47-185-201-55.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
18:37 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2601:5c4:c780:6aa0::4249] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:40 -!- stipa_ [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:41 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:41 -!- stipa_ is now known as stipa
21:03 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:52 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
21:55 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:54 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
23:24 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has joined #hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Wed Feb 01 00:00:31 2023