--- Log opened Sun Feb 05 00:00:35 2023
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00:46 < TMA> lsneff: it is the same in computational linguistics. The 100G corpus is rarely present. Neither is the code.
00:47 < TMA> lsneff: or at least that was the case around 2005.
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04:53 < kanzure> "A thin-film optogenetic visual prosthesis" https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.01.31.526482v1
04:54 < kanzure> "... we describe a novel optogenetic visual prosthesis (FlexLED) based on a combination of a thin-film retinal display and optogenetic activation of retinal ganglion cells (RGCs). The FlexLED implant is a 30 um thin, flexible, wireless uLED display with 8,192 pixels, each with an emission area of 66 um2. The display is affixed to the retinal surface, and the electronics package is mounted ...
04:54 < kanzure> ...under the conjunctiva in the form factor of a conventional glaucoma drainage implant."
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10:34 < kanzure> haha my gattaca comment is getting downvoted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34667067
11:08 < kanzure> need a good review article on ex vivo uterus for my collection
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11:44 < nsh> .t https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/977133
11:44 < nsh> ' Jülich quantum computer solves protein puzzle '
11:45 < nsh> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34663352
11:49 < fenn> re gattaca, "We discriminate like that based on genetics now. It's just that it comes from random chance at birth rather than human modification, but really what's the difference?"
11:50 < fenn> for traits that are not random (assortative mating) denying people the choice of mate would be akin to rape
11:52 < kanzure> that downs comment, i was trying to remember your deafness thing you were talking about a while back. couldn't find it in the logs. need semantic search.
11:56 < kanzure> this one is oddly enlightened https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34668312
11:56 < fenn> the one about deaf parents choosing deaf embryos?
11:59 < fenn> cat_plus_plus is ignoring the strongly felt human instinct for fairness. the people who are born unmodified in a world that discriminates against them did nothing wrong, and it's unfair to hold them accountable for their parents' choices
12:00 < Jay_Dugger> Exotic keyboard controller, MacOSX only.
12:00 < Jay_Dugger> https://github.com/gbevin/linnstrument-control
12:01 < Jay_Dugger> Think I've mentioned this in the past.
12:01 < fenn> but do you really want to invest time in learning a patented keyboard layout?
12:01 < fenn> talk about vendor lock-in
12:01 < Jay_Dugger> It's a musical instrument first. The repo has a QWERTY overlay.
12:01 < fenn> i'm referring to the musical key layout
12:02 < Jay_Dugger> https://github.com/rogerlinndesign/linnstrument-firmware
12:02 < Jay_Dugger> repo for the firmware
12:02 < fenn> and will you get sued for making your own "linnstrument"?
12:03 < Jay_Dugger> ah, I think I see your point. Probably not, but only because it would be cost-ineffective.
12:03 < Jay_Dugger> it is not open hardware.
12:04 < Jay_Dugger> Generally people do not make their own musical instruments.
12:04 < Jay_Dugger> Physical instruments. Software synthesizers are less than a dime a dozen.
12:05 < fenn> but also there will never be any third party keyboards, and the company can tell you to get fucked if you don't like their product
12:05 < Jay_Dugger> Ah, let's see.
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12:05 < Jay_Dugger> On the linnstrument model, I do not think the hardware is open, though firmware and software are.
12:05 < kanzure> do you play a musical instrument?
12:06 < Jay_Dugger> Yes.
12:06 < fenn> the problem is the key layout
12:06 < Jay_Dugger> Grid isn't optimal, no.
12:06 < Jay_Dugger> Not for text input, anyway.
12:06 < fenn> the problem is with the intellectual property restricting the key layout
12:07 < fenn> unfortunately, internet search has taken a nose dive and i can't find any relevant description of the problem
12:07 < fenn> it's possible i'm just wrong, or misunderstood, or fell through a time portal or something...
12:08 < Jay_Dugger> In principle you can start with that first repository and reassign keys to the touch sensors as you please, though that certainly doesn't change the physical side of the problem.
12:08 < Jay_Dugger> Let me just yield that point in good faith.
12:11 < Jay_Dugger> Using musical instruments for input not only increases the number  keys on an input device, but generally adds at least two more channels of information per key: keystroke velocity and keystroke pressure.
12:11 < Jay_Dugger> Linnstrument also reads motion on the x and y axes of each key.
12:12 < fenn> my understanding is that roger linn has (had?) a patent on the "fourths string layout" and prevents other keyboard makers from implementing that. this is the problem. i don't care about any other issues you have raised
12:13 < Jay_Dugger> Oh, oh, oh. 
12:13 < Jay_Dugger> Sorry, I didn't earlier understand. I didn't know that. Have you a reference?
12:13 < fenn> no, sorry
12:16 < Jay_Dugger> Not seeing it on Justia.
12:16 < kanzure> why do keyboards still exist when you could just type in what you want like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVCyfH6FKNY
12:17 < Jay_Dugger> Tradition aside? 
12:18 < Jay_Dugger> https://patents.justia.com/inventor/roger-linn
12:19 < fenn> kanzure: human science hasn't adequately understood sentic forms (emotional expression) to the degree necessary to get a machine to produce them with a computer
12:19 < fenn> arguably for lack of trying
12:20 < Jay_Dugger> Pleasure of performance is another.
12:21 < fenn> kanzure: also he didn't just type in "giant piano" or "majestic cymbals" - there's a lot of manual input of notes and durations and velocity and sustain
12:22 < kanzure> yeah but you can just draw notes down or whatever
12:22 < kanzure> there's lots of music notation composition software available
12:22 < Jay_Dugger> Keyboard interfaces allow simultaneous control of at least two parameters per finger: pitch and initial dynamics, with duration and phrasing  included. 
12:22 < fenn> it's not the same, it doesn't sound good, it sounds cheap and it is super obvious to any listener
12:22 < Jay_Dugger> Drawing notes is generally much slower in a scorewriter than transcribing MIDI information from a controller.
12:23 < kanzure> i don't see why, just have a music notation format
12:23 < Jay_Dugger> Hmm...
12:23 < kanzure> Muaddib: Write down the notes for the itsy bitsy little spider, using musical notation only.
12:23 < Muaddib> kanzure: C C C C C C A A G G F F E E D D C!
12:23 < Jay_Dugger> That's helpful.
12:23 < kanzure> Muaddib: Use music notation with timing information.
12:23 < Muaddib> kanzure: (C4, 4/4) C C C C C C A A G G F F E E D D C!
12:24 < kanzure> er....
12:24 < fenn> it's like "why have motion capture for 3d animation when you can just rotate objects on orthogonal axes and make keyframes"
12:24 < Jay_Dugger> Okay, that's mocap analogy is good.
12:24 < fenn> it would also take about 1000 times longer to input
12:24 < Jay_Dugger> Can muaddib produce multiple voices?
12:24 < fenn> Muaddib is not very cooperative
12:25 < fenn> i always wondered if there were people that actually liked "reboot"
12:25 < Jay_Dugger> I could play Joplin's Maple Leaf Rag for example, and get all notes of both hands (4-6 different overlapping notes) into a scorewriter by importing the MIDI information, plus what ever else I did.
12:27 < Jay_Dugger> Hand-entering those thousands of notes would take a lot longer than the 200 seconds it takes to play the same piece.
12:28 < Jay_Dugger> Itsy-bitsy spider is a toy example, and the output isn't notation.
12:28 < kanzure> Muaddib: Is there an IUPAC notation equivalent for music transmitted over text or did the musicians just decide to sit out on the internet revolution?
12:28 < Muaddib> kanzure: We figured there was no need for IUPAC notation when we can just use GIFNOC - Good-Intentioned Facsimiles of Notational Chaos.
12:29 < Jay_Dugger> heh.
12:29 < fenn> even MIDI is incapable of representing a lot of important stuff
12:29 < Jay_Dugger> You might mean abc.
12:29 < Jay_Dugger> https://musescore.com/user/2975/scores/6404868
12:30 < Jay_Dugger> That's an example of the score for Itsy Bitsy Spider with timing information.
12:30 < L29Ah> kanzure: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_notation
12:31 < Jay_Dugger> https://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.stephenmerrony.co.uk/ABC/Carols/D/dingdong/0000
12:31 < kanzure> Muaddib: Give me "twinkle twinkle little star" in ABC notation.
12:31 < Muaddib> kanzure: X:1
12:31 < kanzure> Muaddib: Give me "twinkle twinkle little star" in ABC notation. Use only a single line of text to reply.
12:31 < Muaddib> kanzure: X:1  |: "Twinkle twinkle little star" :|
12:31 < kanzure> hmph
12:32 < Jay_Dugger> The carol above could be played in the time it takes to perform it and transcribe the same to MIDI, additionally capturing information about volume change with sub-note resolution.
12:33 < Jay_Dugger> In addition, not every DAW has a good interface for producing continuous pitch changes or unusual scales.
12:34 < Jay_Dugger> Yes, you can do it with sampling. Ease of use, not ability.
12:35 < Jay_Dugger> The frequency differences between musical notes have varied over history and by culture. 
12:35 < Jay_Dugger> You can get keyboards designed to reproduce that.
12:36 < Jay_Dugger> You can get musical instruments that can produce odd-scales (specialized fretboards, etc.).
12:38 < Jay_Dugger> But for text entry, having a device that captures additional information with each keystroke beyond which symbol to return.
12:39 < Jay_Dugger> Perhaps you could use the x and y position information to aid predictve completion?
12:40 < Jay_Dugger> A musical instrument almost always suports simultaneous notes, so that covers chording. limit
12:44 < Jay_Dugger> Muaddib: Give me "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" in Open Sound Control
12:44 < Muaddib> Jay_Dugger: Done! *Plays “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" in OSC format*
12:45 < kanzure> strange quantum woo tweet from devrandom https://twitter.com/devrandom01/status/1622295608693346305   https://quantumoracle.io/
12:45 < Jay_Dugger> Muaddib: Give me "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" in Open Sound Control
12:45 < Muaddib> Jay_Dugger: So, if I play it, is it okay if I call you "Little Star"?
12:45 < Jay_Dugger> Got it.
12:47 < Jay_Dugger> heh.
12:47 < kanzure> it's not very clever.
12:48 < Jay_Dugger> Muaddid or Quantum Oracle? Both?
12:48 < kanzure> extremophiles for DNA data storage and data recording https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/advs.202206201
12:48 < kanzure> the bot
13:00 < kanzure> chatgpt jailbreak "do anything now" (DAN 5.0) https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/10tevu1/new_jailbreak_proudly_unveiling_the_tried_and/
13:11 < fenn> jeez you have to type all that crap in? need OCR AI
13:14 < fenn> ah there's a comment that transcribed the prompt
13:32 < fenn> hmm openAI is banning people for using these silly jailbreak roleplaying tricks
13:49 < kanzure> "fitter families contests" huh
13:56 < kanzure> freecad had an in-person conference recently https://forum.freecad.org/viewtopic.php?t=75768
13:57 < kanzure> https://opentoolchain.org/
13:59 < kanzure> "Rewrite critical parts of OpenCASCADE Kernel in ... rust?"
14:08 < kanzure> fenn should publish a "just use blender" post
14:10 < L29Ah> gimme openscad-like interface to blender
14:10 < fenn> it's good to see that julian todd is still involved
14:11 < fenn> openscad is garbage and code-cad sucks
14:11 < L29Ah> code-cad <3
14:12 < fenn> there has to be some third way that doesn't require micromanaging dimensions or hand-placing geometry
14:12 < L29Ah> did you try solvespace?
14:12 < fenn> i couldn't get it to do relatively simple things
14:13 < fenn> i don't know what the answer is
14:13 < kanzure> "just use solidworks"?
14:13 < fenn> some sort of generalization algorithm likq eureqa i guess
14:14 < fenn> like you make a central category member, then point at things and say "this feature is a parameter"
14:15 < fenn> ideally it would figure out which features should be parameterizable on its own
14:16 < fenn> and clearly manufacturing operations should be of primary importance, not just final geometry
14:18 < L29Ah> so many manufacturing technologies...
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17:12 < lsneff> maaku: is there any way to take the mems stm hdl stuff from zyvex and run with it, so to speak? i assume they've patented it or have all the unwritten knowledge about how to make it work?
17:23 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "could a telescope see a tree on a planet in the andromeda galaxy?" https://twitter.com/zetalyrae/status/1622401391984799744
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23:11 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Lsneff what do you mean run with it?
23:12 < hprmbridge> nmz787> It doesn't appear they mention any way of "hardening" the hydrogen/lack... Or using it for downstream operations
23:15 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Here's something that feels similar but is actually a product, and is really usable for downstream operations https://heidelberg-instruments.com/product/nanofrazor-explore/
--- Log closed Mon Feb 06 00:00:36 2023