--- Log opened Mon Feb 06 00:00:36 2023
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05:41 < kanzure> next freecad conference march 1-3rd https://hopin.com/events/freecad-and-free-cae-users-conference/registration
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05:51 < kanzure> "I think there's some status quo bias here? Seems like if Down's Syndrome didn't exist, someone who invented it and caused children to born with it would be considered a monster?"
05:58 < nsh> i feel the same way about americans
05:58 < lsneff> Put us patriots out of our misery
07:15 < kanzure> you can cause children to be born with americanism?
08:03 -!- L29Ah is now known as L29Ah[x]
08:45 < nsh> it's more on an environmental hazard
08:45 < nsh> *of
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13:50 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab and the FDA
13:50 -!- Topic set by fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] [Fri Mar 25 06:29:19 2022]
13:50 [Users #hplusroadmap]
13:50 [@ChanServ ] [ catalase   ] [ EnabrinTain_] [ jrayhawk] [ nsh        ] [ soundandfury] 
13:50 [+gnusha   ] [ catern     ] [ faceface_   ] [ juri_   ] [ otoburb    ] [ srk         ] 
13:50 [ _flood   ] [ cc0_       ] [ FelixWeis   ] [ kanzure ] [ pasky      ] [ stipa       ] 
13:50 [ A_Dragon ] [ cpopell    ] [ fenn        ] [ L29Ah[x]] [ potatope   ] [ strages     ] 
13:50 [ abetusk  ] [ cpopell_   ] [ gnusha_     ] [ lkcl    ] [ potatope_  ] [ streety     ] 
13:50 [ acertain ] [ Croran     ] [ heath       ] [ lsneff  ] [ redlegion  ] [ superkuh    ] 
13:50 [ adlai    ] [ CryptoDavid] [ hellleshin  ] [ maaku   ] [ RubenSomsen] [ TMA         ] 
13:50 [ AMG      ] [ dartmouthed] [ Hooloovoo   ] [ mlaga97 ] [ s0ph1a     ] [ TMM_        ] 
13:50 [ andytoshi] [ deltab     ] [ hprmbridge  ] [ mrdata  ] [ s0ph1a_    ] [ yashgaroth  ] 
13:50 [ archels  ] [ docl       ] [ HumanG33k   ] [ Muaddib ] [ SDr        ] [ yashgaroth_ ] 
13:50 [ balrog   ] [ drmeister  ] [ Jay_Dugger  ] [ muurkha ] [ sgiath     ] [ yuanti      ] 
13:50 [ berndj   ] [ dustinm    ] [ Jenda       ] [ nmz787  ] [ sivoais    ] 
13:50 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 71 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 1 voices, 69 normal]
13:50 -!- mode/#hplusroadmap [+v gnusha_] by ChanServ
13:50 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Wed May 19 06:51:36 2021
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14:29 < fenn> https://www.seeedstudio.com/60GHz-mmWave-Radar-Sensor-Breathing-and-Heartbeat-Module-p-5305.html
14:29 < kanzure_> can you do remote computed tomography with radar?
14:29 < kanzure_> like of human organs
14:30 < fenn> sure but the resolution will be crap
14:31 < fenn> this chip isn't meant for imaging, just a time resolved signal
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15:06 < kanzure_> welcome Chiester
15:06 < Chiester> Hi there
15:06 < Chiester> Thanks
15:06 < kanzure_> what brings you here
15:09 < Chiester> The topics looked interesting in the channel list, I like FOSS stuff and use some nootropics
15:09 < kanzure_> you read the whole channel list?
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15:10 < Chiester> Well this channel sorted by user counts is pretty much on top compared to the amount of channels
15:12 < kanzure_> didn't know that
15:14 < Chiester> Generally also checking out to see what's going on with IRC and different networks these days in general, seems there were some stuff with Freenode so this was created
16:26 < kanzure_> Chiester: was there anything else of interest?
16:28 < Chiester> I guess #libreboot is the most interesting project channels
16:33 < kanzure_> hm this looks like an anti-MIRI subreddit https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/ hadn't seen this before
16:34 < kanzure_> something something grognor (haven't seen that name in a long time) https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/10qypl1/something_weird_is_happening_at_cfar/
16:37 < L29Ah[x]> Shitgenstein, hmmm
16:40 < kanzure_> "scientists find a way to waste even more time analyzing hte political opinions of chatbots" https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/102oxni/scientists_finally_find_a_way_to_waste_even_more/
16:42 < kanzure_> oh man, these guys are hilarious https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/10jrymk/if_you_had_a_chance_to_sit_down_with_yud_what/j5rpolf/?context=1
16:43 < L29Ah[x]> https://you.com/search?q=youchat&fromSearchBar=true&tbm=youchat for your chatgpt needs, now w/o auth
17:11 < fenn> huh, https://you.com/chat might actually be useful
17:23 < kanzure_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_families
17:25 < fenn> "Initially, the therapy consists simply of blood replacement (using new blood grown in vitro)" the clever bastard was ahead of his time in many ways
17:30 < kanzure_> "the thing limiting yud's cult most is that he can't manage to move it out of the bay area and isolate its members. I think this is because the bay area housing market is an active participant in the cult, creating weird economic dynamics that they depend on. Since all their group home stuff is oriented around a couple people who have tech incomes and cover the high cost of living for a bunch ...
17:30 < kanzure_> ...of submissive residents."
17:30 -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure
17:30 < kanzure> "I mean I think thats what keeps yud's cult from being actively militant.  Why bomb shit when you can hang out and talk about the dangers do, drugs, have bdsm orgies or whatever, instead?"
17:36 < fenn> the whole bay area housing cost problem was a large part of what drove ziz and followers to do their weird guy fawkes mask protest thing. they claimed that marginalized people couldn't keep up and therefore were excluded from [most important cult ever~]
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17:37 < kanzure> most cities are going to have housing cost problems especially for young people just starting out
17:40 < fenn> there's just zero slack in the system here
17:42 < fenn> god this sneer club reddit is something i'm going to have to actually read isn't it
17:44 < kanzure> nearly died laughing, good stuff.
17:45 < fenn> unfortunately they are jumping at any excuse to hate on MIRI et al. regardless whether it makes any logical sense or not
17:45 < kanzure> some weird anti-tech sentiment but i guess it makes sense: aggregate all the anti-cultists together and then once it goes mainstream you can get weird of some the weirdos
17:45 < fenn> there's signal there but also a lot of noise
17:45 < fenn> without other channels how would you know which is which?
17:46 < fenn> i mean if you get all your info from sneerclub you'd just have to accept all of it or not
17:46 < kanzure> there really has not been an organized front against big yud so far
17:46 < fenn> you mean the person or the movement?
17:47 < kanzure> are they separate?
17:47 < fenn> yud has kinda checked out the past 5 years or so
17:48 < fenn> ok this is a dumb rule - "since this place is mainly for shitposting, anything serious needs to be tagged with 'nsfw'."
17:49 < fenn> fortunately old.reddit.com doesn't care about that shit
17:50 < kanzure> alright well if you have a better idea for a cult let's hear it
17:51 < fenn> as far as rationalists spontaneously going insane, i don't believe the proximate cause isn't drugs or being spiked with drugs. it's something they're having trouble with internally, suppsedly as a result of exposure to too much novelty and probably sleep deprivation
17:51 < fenn> er, i mean drugs are not the proximate cause
17:53 < kanzure> or the community just naturally selects for these kinds of people
17:53 < fenn> "LW-adjacent people (Vassar, Dill) provoking people into suicide/psychosis intentionally." and i'd add ziz to that list
17:54 < fenn> yeah they are all a bunch of freaks, the process selects for outcasts and people with dissociation and identity disorders
17:54 < fenn> maybe outcast is the wrong word. self-outcast?
17:55 < fenn> when your standards are impossibly high
17:55 < fenn> won't somebody please think of the shrimp!~
17:55 < kanzure> soo yeah about that, why haven't they been working on uplifting shrimp if they actually care about shrimp that much
17:56 < kanzure> or was this the thing where it's easier to just exterminate all the shrimp to prevent shrimp suffering?
17:57 < fenn> i'm super confused about who is alive and who is dead and how and why, among ziz and followers
18:01 < fenn> https://twitter.com/QiaochuYuan/status/1622672298636627968
18:01 < fenn> "eliezer 10 years ago: the AI might be so superhumanly persuasive that it will convince you to let it out of the box
18:01 < fenn> actual outcome: the collective intelligence of the internet works tirelessly to break the AI out of the box without being asked"
18:08 < fenn> asimov's laws of robotics are looking pretty good right about now: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoQDkquWYAMgW5B?format=jpg&name=large
18:33 < muurkha> fenn: Ziz is trying to provoke people to commit suicide or become psychotic?
18:34 < muurkha> I think the community naturally selects for people with major scrupulosity problems
18:35 < fenn> no, exposure to ziz naturally results in psychosis
18:35 < fenn> same with vassar
18:36 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Who’s ziz?
18:36 < fenn> fuck if i know
18:36 < fenn> if you want to get infected with mindplague you can read its blog
18:36 < muurkha> her blog
18:36 < fenn> ziz was explicit about abusing peoples' respect for pronouns in order to achieve an agenda
18:36 < muurkha> Ziz is a well-known transgender ex-lesswronger who is obsessed with bringing Eliezer Yudkowsky to justice because he dated a 17-year-old
18:38 < fenn> no
18:38 < muurkha> whatever, I'm not going to let my antipathy to Ziz provoke me into misgendering people, because that's something people could use against me later to make me look petty, or worse
18:38 < fenn> well i don't even know what gender ziz preferred most recently and can't be bothered
18:39 < fenn> i consider ziz some sort of demon in human flesh
18:39 < muurkha> what's up with vassar?
18:39 < lsneff> Gosh
18:40 < fenn> "Subagents Are Not a Metaphor"
18:40 < muurkha> as for "achieve an agenda", pretty much anything you want to achieve is by definition "an agendum" (plural "agenda")
18:41 < fenn> i mean they are hacking gender politics to do social engineering
18:41 < fenn> this behavior does not warrant respect
18:41 < muurkha> isn't social engineering the same thing as politics?
18:41 < muurkha> it seems like you're listing tautologies as if they were damning accusations (-:
18:42 < kanzure> doesn't sound productive
18:42 < kanzure> which is, itself, a damning accusation
18:42 < fenn> ok, i don't care
18:43 < muurkha> but what's up with Vassar?  what's his special ability to provoke psychosis?
18:43 < fenn> i don't know
18:43 < kanzure> i haven't experienced it and have suffered through several encounters
18:43 < fenn> he has some kind of narcissistic messiah complex
18:45 < fenn> kanzure you are already immune to all of the lesswrong memes
18:46 < fenn> ah dammit the brent dill thing was right after my archive scrape
18:46  * fenn grumbles
18:47 < fenn> i don't get paid enough for this
18:48 < muurkha> brent dill was the ex-miri employee who set up the miricult site in order to extract a blackmail payment after they wouldn't hire him back when his startup failed?
18:48 < muurkha> all I have to go on is Ziz's word on this, so I could have this story totally wrong
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18:49 < muurkha> kanzure: how were your Vassar encounters?
18:49 < kanzure> filled with pontification about social hierarchies and his access to upper echelons
18:49 < muurkha> was the pontification insightful or productive?
18:49 < kanzure> no
18:49 < fenn> muurkha: no that was louie helm
18:50 < muurkha> thought-provoking?
18:50 < muurkha> fenn: oh, thanks.  not just Ziz's word, but my totally incorrect memory of Ziz's word
18:50 < kanzure> his rant about scientific epistemology was less boring i suppose although not insightful if one already knew about popper
18:50 < muurkha> so what was the brent dill thing?
18:51 < kanzure> muurkha: are you in group or out group for them?
18:51 < kanzure> or neither?
18:51 < muurkha> they don't know I exist
18:51 < muurkha> I mean I've posted on lesswrong I think twice in my life.  Comments.
18:51 < kanzure> you're all over the email archives though
18:51 < muurkha> and I've posted on SSC a few times, under a different name
18:51 < muurkha> I'm all over the email archives?
18:52 < kanzure> maybe it was a different kragen
18:52 < muurkha> That's ... a worrisome assertion.  What do you mean?
18:52 < muurkha> Hypothetically it's possible, but the base rate of different-kragen events is very low.
18:52 < kanzure> not falling for this again
18:52 < muurkha> Do you mean, like, the cypherpunks archives from 30 years ago?
18:53 < muurkha> I went to an SSC meetup once.  It was me, my girlfriend, and one other guy
18:53 < muurkha> Who'd never been to any other SSC meetups
18:53 < muurkha> which email archives are you talking about?
18:53 < kanzure> i must be mistaken; nevermind.
18:54 < muurkha> haha
18:54  * muurkha goes psychotic
18:55 < muurkha> anyway as far as I know they don't know I exist, although I did recently start dating someone who's dating two guys on opposite sides of the Vassar/Yvain split
18:56 < kanzure> hacker news discussing open-source vs law https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34684715
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19:12 < fenn> does anyone have experience scraping an entire subreddit? is this difficult?
19:19 < fenn> https://old.reddit.com/r/sneersneerclub/
19:20 < kanzure> https://github.com/arshadrr/subreddit-archiver
19:20 < kanzure> sneersneerclub is a sneerclub about sneerclub?
19:25 < fenn> unfortunately sneerclub is infested with tankies
19:25 < fenn> i'm only here for actionable info
19:26 < fenn> "read marx" is not useful
19:27 < kanzure> odd that the e/acc people don't seem to intersect, they like dunking on the miri-cult
19:28 < fenn> i think i just explained why
19:29 < fenn> sneerclub thinks eliezer is a scifi author, e/acc sees him as an obstacle
19:29 < kanzure> i don't read politicosprechen
19:29 < fenn> sneerclub primarily being concerned with rationalists being "nazis" or similar bad faith characterizations
19:30 < fenn> i'm really tired of obsolete political ontologies dominating the discourse
19:30 < kanzure> the pieces are all here it's just mixed up in the wrong way
19:30 < fenn> yes
19:33 < kanzure> guess someone forgot to unplug the entropy generator
19:34 < fenn> "EDIT: Just looked at your post history and it turns out you're a literal eugenicist"
19:34 < fenn> reply: "please report the eugenicists, asshole."
19:34 < fenn> in reply to [deleted]
19:34 < fenn> so, clearly sneerclub is coming at this from a different angle than you are
20:06 < jrayhawk> the hazards of attempting to perform aumanncy on narcissists
20:23 < fenn> "Aumann's agreement theorem, roughly speaking, says that two agents acting rationally (in a certain precise sense) and with common knowledge of each other's beliefs cannot agree to disagree. More specifically, if two people are genuine Bayesians, share common priors, and have common knowledge of each other's current probability assignments, then they must have equal probability assignments."
20:24 < fenn> jrayhawk: i watched "mister organ" and i don't recommend it. there must be a less rambly and lost version somewhere that conveys the idea more succinctly
20:25 < fenn> um, whoops
20:25 < fenn> andrew lee comes to mind
20:41 < jrayhawk> is there live documentary footage of him?
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--- Log closed Tue Feb 07 00:00:36 2023