--- Log opened Mon Mar 06 00:00:02 2023
04:35 < muurkha> a possible disadvantage of the stratospheric aerosols approach is that public opinion will be biased against it because a key plot point in the Matrix movies is that the machines block out the sun
04:36 < L29Ah> Muaddib: what is your favorite Happy Tree Friends episode?
04:36 < Muaddib> L29Ah: The one where Flippy discovers the consequences of too much irony.
04:36 < muurkha> not to mention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrails
05:03 < muurkha> "Chemtrail conspiracy theorists often describe their experience as being akin to a religious conversion experience. When they "wake up" and become "aware" of chemtrails, the experience motivates them to advocacy of various forms.[31] For example, they often attend events and conferences on geoengineering, and have sent threats to academics working in the geoengineering field.[31]"
05:40 < kanzure> where did all these people come from https://carboncopies.org/new-team/
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06:58 < hprmbridge> poppingtonic> Wow the WBE roadmap was my gateway to neuro and particularly Anders Sandberg
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08:27 < kanzure> "on-demand neural tissue cultures" https://brainxell.com/
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09:04 < kanzure> "... In other studies, instead of using MEAs to apply electrical stimulation, the researchers began to use optogenetic means and digital projectors to input optical stimulation signals. This significantly increased the spatial resolution of input stimulation to the level of a single neuron, which endows these RC systems with better input separability [29,30]." from ...
09:04 < kanzure> ...https://spj.science.org/doi/full/10.34133/cbsystems.0001
09:07 < kanzure> "Reliable neuronal logic devices from patterned hippocampal cultures" https://ocw.snu.ac.kr/sites/default/files/MATERIAL/6622.pdf
09:07 < kanzure> ".. Here, we show that reliable, mesoscale logical devices can be created in vitro by geometrical design of neural cultures. We control the connections and activity by assembling living neural networks on quasi-one-dimensional configurations. The linear geometry yields reliable transmission lines. Incorporating thin lines creates ‘threshold’ devices and logical ‘AND gates’. Breaking ...
09:07 < kanzure> ...the symmetry of transmission makes neuronal ‘diodes’."
09:08 < muurkha> that's good; how much energy do they use?
09:10 < muurkha> it sounds like the researchers are confused about what a diode is
09:14 < kanzure> "A neuronal wiring platform through microridges for rationally engineered neural circuits" https://aip.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/5.0025921
09:17 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Based, yeet... Both words that cool kids are using today that annoy/irk me
09:17 < kanzure> "Experimental validation of the free-energy principle with in vitro neural networks" https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.10.03.510742v1.abstract
09:19 < kanzure> in this manuscript they propose to study biological in vitro neural networks' applicability to machine learning.. by doing a simulation and not testing in vitro? https://arxiv.org/abs/1905.11594
09:21 < kanzure> while i'm on the subject:
09:21 < kanzure> "In vitro neurons learn and exhibit sentience when embodied in a simulated game-world" https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(22)00806-6
09:21 < kanzure> (playing pong is not particularly impressive for 2022 considering we had rat neurons flying fighter jets in 2004 from the demarse lab)
09:22 < kanzure> organoid intelligence https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/science/articles/10.3389/fsci.2023.1017235 https://spj.science.org/doi/full/10.34133/cbsystems.0001
09:24 < kanzure> and perhaps more interesting is this biological reservoir computing manuscript https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0064771   or section 8 of https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0893608019300784#sec8
09:25 < kanzure> or this "spoken digit classifer" https://arxiv.org/abs/2210.02913  mentioned in https://gnusha.org/logs/2023-02-23.log (also had the references for the plug-and-play neural connectoids with surgical implantation of hydrogels into recipient brains)
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09:42 < kanzure> fluorescent calcium imaging for output + optogenetics for input should allow for really massive neural cultures... no electrode scaling problems.
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11:24 < kanzure> https://worldmentalcalculation.com/2018/11/03/marc-jornet-sanz-interview/
11:24 < kanzure> "I use the cross method from right to left, one digit each time, with no soroban. I don’t verbalize nor say the numbers in my head. The numbers just pass through my brain unconsciously, as if I knew the results by heart. In fact, in training, I usually watch TV or think about other things while I do the multiplications."
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12:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> metaphor is pretty good: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1082394926630842551/image.png
12:13 < kanzure> it also finds eg https://www.the-odin.com/diyhumancrispr/
12:13 < kanzure> "computer-generated molecule database for public drug discovery" http://matter.farm/
12:14 < kanzure> the raelian "human cloning" website is still online https://clonaid.com/
12:15 < kanzure> at least this cult was saying they were doing something interesting (who knows if they were) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonaid
12:21 < kanzure> https://www.melonfrost.com/ this should have been the name of a brain preservation startup or nectome competitor (instead they are doing microbial directed evolution/optimization?)
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12:27 < kanzure> genetically modified pigs for human-compatible kidney xenotransplantation https://nzeno.nz/ (seems to be separate from e-genesis?)
12:30 < kanzure> https://www.lygenesis.com/ "organ transplantation by using the patient’s own lymph nodes as bioreactors to grow functioning ectopic organs"  "one donated liver can treat dozens of ESLD patients, and the cell therapy is engrafted into the lymph nodes using an outpatient endoscopic ultrasound procedure"
12:31 < kanzure> ".. hepatocytes (liver cells) transplanted into lymph nodes organize and begin to function as miniature ectopic livers"
12:33 < kanzure> "Ectopic transplantation sites for cell-based therapy" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24480968/
12:33 < kanzure> "Maturation of embryonic tissues in a lymph node: a new approach for bioengineering complex organs" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25531035/
12:34 < kanzure> oops i mean https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4750546/
12:34 < kanzure> "... we observed brain maturation in lymph nodes by showing the emergence of astrocytes with well-developed branching processes"
12:47 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Oh man, I've not heard of raelians for probably 20 years
12:47 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Can barely remember anything about them
12:51 < kanzure> https://www.embryll.com/ "restore youth in aging pets by transplanting young cells into them. We manufacture these young cells using oocyte-based reprogramming and animal cloning technology"
12:53 < kanzure> clone fetus -> inject into animal bloodstream -> ? -> somehow aging stem cells are outcompeted? not sure what they are thinking.
12:54 < kanzure> "There is no Nobel Prize winner at Embryll" you can say that again
12:55 < kanzure> "Ventura Laboratories, Inc., the manufacturer of Lanomax [this is some sort of cataract-dissolving eyedrop for pets], was acquired by Embryll Life Science"
13:00 < kanzure> wonder if https://www.viagenpets.com/ the pet cloning stuff is doing well or not?
13:00 < jrayhawk> I thought cataracts were advanced glycation endproducts? How would stem cells help?
13:03 < kanzure> or sooam
13:04 < L29Ah> raelians are the best christian sect ever
13:04 < kanzure> meanwhile:
13:04 < kanzure> "Boyalife Group and its partners are building the giant plant in the northern Chinese port of Tianjin, where it is due to go into production within the next seven months and aims for an output of one million cloned cows a year by 2020."
13:05 < kanzure> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianjin_animal_cloning_center
13:05 < L29Ah> their swastika star symbol alone is a great achievement, their holy book is great fun too
13:07 < kanzure> "The head of a Chinese firm that is building the world’s biggest animal cloning factory has vowed not to use the technology on people — for now, at least." https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/we-won-t-make-frankensteins-cloning-giant-boyalife-s-ceo-n480891
13:11 < kanzure> this one is a joke site https://familyabeyance.com/ "After nine months, we guide mothers through a safe delivery of the baby and place it in a state of suspended animation. This process is completely safe."   pre-implantation embryos are easier to store.
13:29 < kanzure> "David Brin has questioned "whether small groups of zealots should bypass all institutions, peer critique, risk appraisal or public opinion, to shout ‘yoohoo’ into a potentially hazardous cosmos"" apparently there is some criticism of alex the african grey parrot's mentor irene pepperberg?
13:32 < muurkha> that sounds preferable to having them subject to public opinion
13:40 < fenn> i missed all of this at the time (2000-2006) but apparently the "bioethicists" were against pet cloning when it first became commercially available from the company Genetic Savings & Clone https://web.archive.org/web/20061205023330/http://defendpetcloning.org/
13:41 < kanzure> there doesn't seem to anyone complaining on the matter these days?
13:43 < fenn> there's a lot of negative media on the topic, but it's like, "reasons you shouldn't clone your dog"
13:44 < kanzure> some snark from savulescu: "Everything was going on happily. Shinya Yamanaka received the Nobel Prize for turning water into wine and creating iPS cells from skin cells, bypassing the embryo. Roger Gurdon joined him for cloning a frog decades before. (The Nobel Committee passed poor Ian Wilmut by – cloning frogs is ok but cloning a mammal, well, that is way too close to cloning a human ...
13:45 < kanzure> ...being. Same for James Thomson, who produced human embryonic stem cells – nasty stuff that destroying embryos for stem cells. No Nobel for you.)"
13:45 < kanzure> from http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2015/08/clone-me-up-scotty-a-brief-history-of-cloning-and-ethical-progress/ (which is otherwise uninteresting)
13:46 < docl> crazy how quick people were to invent reasons to oppose cloning. seems like literally the most harmless thing imaginable, not even a germ line intervention
14:12 < kanzure> this company is using neurosphere organoids (~1mm^3) on microelectrode arrays https://finalspark.com/artificial-intelligence-project-status/ "Reliable neurosphere production and preservation (thousands are available now in our lab)"
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14:49 < fenn> i get the impression that cloned dogs and cats are typically pretty healthy, whereas dolly the sheep was "prematurely aged" and died young. what changed? do the pet cloning labs have some secret sauce?
14:57 < kanzure> they get a litter and the healthy one might be game of chance, throw out the rest
15:01 < fenn> i think they give you the whole litter by default
15:04 < kanzure> oh
15:08 < fenn> so like, plane tickets cost less when you buy them way in advance
15:08 < kanzure> wrong channel
15:08 < kanzure> this is the dog cloning channel
15:08  * fenn looks around at all the dogs and apologizes by giving everyone synthetic duck jerky
15:09 < kanzure> if i identify as a dog then can i be cloned?
15:09 < fenn> if your surrogate mom identifies as a dog too
15:19 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://mobile.twitter.com/lemire/status/1632823733617324033
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16:08 < kanzure> nice
16:32 < kanzure> "stem cell banking for pets as seen on shark tank" https://gallant.com/  what
16:33 < L29Ah> https://github.com/facebookresearch/llama/pull/73
16:35 < kanzure> huh, it's still open.
16:35 < kanzure> er, not removed i mean.
16:35 < fenn> i didnt get it because it's 231GB
16:35 < kanzure> "Please exercise caution. I have not verified the files against the official checksums. Also, PyTorch checkpoint files are stored in unsafe pickle files" 
16:35 < kanzure> pickle hahaha
16:35 < fenn> probably should get one of the smaller models, since realistically that's all i'd be able to run anyway due to GPU RAM limits
16:36 < kanzure> have we learned nothing
16:37 < L29Ah> fenn: you can grab pick the smaller one in the torrent
16:37 < superkuh> The ipfs links to the individual small ones are nice and seem fast.
16:40 < kanzure> jed mccaleb is funding a space habitat company https://www.vastspace.com/press-releases/vast-launches
16:45 < L29Ah> > who is renowned for projects such as Stellar
16:45 < L29Ah> we at Montelibero use Stellar for our tokenomics, feels bitrotten tbh
16:45 < L29Ah> > and eDonkey2000
16:45 < L29Ah> it is sad that it was abandoned, it's kinda like ipfs but was created 20 years ago and has a distributed index, unlike anything else p2p today
16:45 < kanzure> also mtgox before karpeles acquired it
17:13 < kanzure> and ripple or stellar.
17:13 < kanzure> or i mean... not the original ripple.. or something.
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17:49 < kanzure> i forgot about damian sullivan (phoenix?)'s mailing list https://mindstalk.net/polymath/polyarc/ with pmetzger/hal finney/eleitl/bostrom/feynman/sandberg/the usual suspects.
17:57 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Hmm, I think the matrix bridge isn’t working anymore
17:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> why's that?
17:59 < hprmbridge> lachlan> messages I send from it aren’t showing up in the discord bridge
18:08 < jrayhawk> There's a matrix room, too?
18:09 < hprmbridge> lachlan> yeah, libera has a matrix bridge
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 07 00:00:03 2023