--- Log opened Mon Apr 17 00:00:35 2023
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03:57 < nsh> .gpt what can you tell me about impact markets?
03:58 < gptpaste> ​Impact markets refer to financial markets that focus on investments that generate positive social or environmental impact alongside financial returns. These markets are also known as sustainable, responsible, and impact investing (SRI) or Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) investing.Impact investors seek to invest in companies that have a positive impact on society a - http://sprunge.us/bmEPen
04:04 < L29Ah> interesting rebranding of charity
04:05 < L29Ah> .gpt Is impact investment the same as charity?
04:05 < gptpaste> ​No, impact investment is not the same as charity. Impact investment involves investing in businesses or organizations that aim to generate a positive social or environmental impact while also generating financial returns for investors. Charity, on the other hand, involves giving money or resources to support a cause without expecting any financial return. While both impact inve - http://sprunge.us/XlG0oM
04:12 < hprmbridge> kanzure> we gonna launch?
04:14 < hprmbridge> Perry> probably.
04:14 < hprmbridge> Perry> 8am CT
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04:42 < hprmbridge> eleitl> In an half an hour, unless they'll cancel.
04:50 < hprmbridge> lachlan> 90 minutes from now
05:04 < hprmbridge> kanzure>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1097492773223006278/DALLE_2022-07-21_15.47.22_-_anonymous_billionaire_in_a_suit_admiring_the_andromeda_galaxy.png
05:30 < L29Ah> starspill
05:43 < hprmbridge> eleitl> Liftoff in about 35 min.
05:45 < hprmbridge> Perry> Humans are awesome! Posthumans will be even more awesome!
06:02 < hprmbridge> Perry> Whether this gets off the ground or not, the design almost certainly works and they will make this happen. I’m amazingly pumped.
06:08 < darsie> https://pad.riseup.net/p/%23%23space SpaceX Starship launch streams.
06:09 < L29Ah> healthy reminder that singularity is now and that one should start living it instead of fantasizing like some cyberhipster
06:09 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Hearing no-go
06:09 < hprmbridge> Perry> https://www.youtube.com/live/L5QXreqOrTA
06:09 < hprmbridge> Perry> I’m in like six chat channels. Everyone is going crazy for this.
06:12 < hprmbridge> Perry> Scrub. 😦
06:23 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Wednesday!
06:23 < hprmbridge> lachlan> I hope it’s a few hours later though
06:23 < hprmbridge> Perry> Unlikely.
06:23 < hprmbridge> lachlan> I can’t miss racquetball again lol
06:23 < hprmbridge> Perry> Sadly you will have to miss raquetball again.
06:24 < hprmbridge> lachlan> 😞
06:24 < hprmbridge> Yoda> I love racquetball, if you come to SLC we should play 🙂
06:33 < juri_> L29Ah: could not agree more.
06:35 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://robertmcdougal.substack.com/p/dear-smart-people-and-society-please
06:41 < L29Ah> ok, my artificial knees can wait for this poor guy, allergy tho...
06:42 < hprmbridge> SteveGremory> 🤞
06:42 < hprmbridge> SteveGremory> Can't be too sure, but yeah, I hope so too
06:42 < hprmbridge> SteveGremory> least we can do for them is hand over our research, I guess
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07:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> hmmm https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1097533205176918167/embryo-flight.png
07:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> better not drop the embryo dewar https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1097533296084263076/embryo-delivery.png
07:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> from https://www.embryocourier.com/
08:31 < hprmbridge> lachlan> God, poor guy
09:46 < hprmbridge> eleitl> He need cryoonics. The non cargo cult science kind. Unfortunately, he's SOL. As are we all.
09:46 < hprmbridge> Perry> No, you are SOL.
09:47 < hprmbridge> Perry> Speak for yourself.
09:48 < hprmbridge> eleitl> Unfortunately, I have a very good idea of the state of cryonics. You, of course, can believe in whatever comforts you. So just let's agree to disagree.
09:50 < hprmbridge> Perry> You are unrelentingly negative about everything. We have fully reusable spacecraft about to launch, we have cures for malignant melanoma, we have next day delivery of any book printed book I can imagine and electronic delivery the same minute. We have good quality electric cars, and the only thing preventing self driving is the last fractional percent of perfection. I have computers that can write
09:50 < hprmbridge> Perry> programs for me now. Things are great.
09:50 < hprmbridge> Perry> You keep telling us how we’re all going to be huddled alone in the dark as the last of technology fails around us. That’s you maybe. The rest of us are going to the stars.
09:51 < hprmbridge> Perry> I eat strawberries, *good quality strawberries*, in January! I eat good quality blueberries in January too!
09:51 < hprmbridge> eleitl> How old are you now, Perry? I'm turning 57 this year.
09:52 < hprmbridge> Perry> The world is fantastic and keeps getting better. Go and hang out with your friends in the catastrophist reddit groups.
09:52 < hprmbridge> Perry> Let them tell you how we’re about to run out of energy and raw materials and will all be huddled around candle flames waiting to die.
09:53 < hprmbridge> eleitl> When I was about 17 I figured out that life extension won't happen in my lifetime. The only other option was something I figured out should be possible, cryonics. I was ecstatic when I found that there are people who actually were doing it.
09:53 < hprmbridge> Perry> So if it won’t work, don’t do it. Leave the rest of us alone.
09:53 < hprmbridge> Perry> I don’t enjoy being around depressive catastrophists.
09:54 < hprmbridge> Perry> Leave the rest of us to our “foolish fantasies”.
09:54 < hprmbridge> Perry> If you’re sure nothing will work and you’re going to die horribly etc., then have the grace to do it with people who want to share in your misery.
09:55 < hprmbridge> Perry> The rest of us morons can work on the future unaware of your wisdom. We’ll be happy fools together.
09:55 < hprmbridge> Perry> When we inevitably die as you’re so certain will happen, perhaps in the midst of some terrible global collapse, we’ll at least have hope instead of being bitter people.
09:56 < hprmbridge> Perry> That alone is superior to wallowing in self-pity.
09:56 < hprmbridge> eleitl> I was sufficiently interested to emigrate to the U.S. and spend two years working with these people. It didn't work out. Those people factors I keep mentioning. The last time I tried helping with that was in 2018. It did look good then, but the cryonics school project did not happen, as far as I'm aware.
09:57 < hprmbridge> Perry> I don’t care, Eugen. There are enough people in the world who want to tell me how I should feel miserable all the time. You will have to wait in the queue behind the rest of them.
09:58 < hprmbridge> eleitl> The last person who I know has been doing good work is Robert McIntyre. I wonder what he's been up to in the last 5 years.
10:00 < hprmbridge> eleitl> I don't want to drag you down, Perry. Just don't listen to me, it should be easy enough to do.
10:02 < hprmbridge> eleitl> I was watching my electricity meter running backwards during much of today, and it was a pretty cloudy spring day. Things are not hopeless. But we need a lot of people working on the right things.
10:05 < hprmbridge> docl> I believe someone was scheduled to talk about a brain scanning tech at the austin meetup, but wasn't able to attend. idea was infusing gold nanoparticles and then using a lot of x-rays (while one is alive) if I got the gist right. I did a short presentation on some basic cryobiology stuff (also mentioned robert's work and jordan's org). would have been cool if you could have been there eugen. we
10:05 < hprmbridge> docl> need more basic research in this area.
10:07 < hprmbridge> docl> part of this group's focus that gets me excited is extending basic capability. stuff like an auto pipetter kit that brings elaborate lab procedures to near the 3d printing range seems like low hanging fruit
10:07 < hprmbridge> eleitl> You need a lot of young, driven people. These are in scarce supply lately. I don't think AI will get good enough to substitute for those in time to matter, but of course I don't know this for sure.
10:08 < hprmbridge> eleitl> The last place I worked for got acquired by a group who were automating synthesis. Unfortunately, they didn't knew what they were doing.
10:08 < hprmbridge> docl> We had several there. Need way more. Someone should clone Lachlan 🙂
10:09 < hprmbridge> docl> A common pathology, I understand
10:10 < hprmbridge> lachlan> There are a lot of young, driven people out there
10:10 < hprmbridge> docl> The hair on fire tech guys are mostly all programmers. It comes with pros and cons. Teaches systematic thinking, but leaves you naive to some of the intricacies of biology
10:10 < hprmbridge> lachlan> More than ever
10:10 < hprmbridge> eleitl> Exactly, docl.
10:10 < hprmbridge> lachlan> My manager from this past fall on starlink said one of the teams there just extended an offer to a 14 year old
10:11 < hprmbridge> lachlan> Young people are extraordinarily impressive these days
10:11 < hprmbridge> docl> blockchain guys going into AI now are the basic demographic. get some of those doing real experiments with pipetters and we might get some of that much needed experience
10:11 < hprmbridge> eleitl> Lachlan, do you have statistics for lots of impressive young people?
10:12 < superkuh> "blockchain guys going into AI now" ... why are we talking about the subset mostly made out of scammers?
10:12 < hprmbridge> lachlan> I do not
10:13 < superkuh> I am not implying blockchain users are scammers, merely that the subset moving to "AI" are.
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10:13 < superkuh> Following the hype to use as camo.
10:13 < hprmbridge> eleitl> My subjective impression is that the 1970s in the US were special. I don't know enough about Asia to know whether they can replicate that, but my impression that they're not as creative in the right areas.
10:15 < hprmbridge> docl> we're mostly talking technophiles who want in on the next big thing. there's a scammer subset obviously, but I wouldn't say that's like a majority (that wouldn't be sustainable)
10:15 < hprmbridge> eleitl> AI can be very seat of your pants solid. I've just attended Large Language Models and Generative AI Briefing from Google, and this is really useful stuff.
10:16 < superkuh> I'm not saying LLM and such are not useful. I'm saying the money cashers are by and large the scammers, and I'm glad to see them move on to AI.
10:16 < superkuh> chasers.
10:16 < hprmbridge> eleitl> Yes, there are plenty of scammers. They're pretty much deep in Quantum Computing too.
10:17 < superkuh> It remains to be seen if the scammers will overload the meaning of AI like they did with cryptocurrency. Hopefully not.
10:21 < hprmbridge> docl> 3d printing as well of course
10:22 < hprmbridge> docl> that has more exposure to reality / credible people working in it though
10:28 < hprmbridge> docl> elietl, were you involved with a cryonics research startup at one point? I remember seeing a website with lots of really interesting ideas like perfusion of nanotubes to increase thermal transfer
10:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> Nectome is doing good work. I was hoping for an update from them last weekend but last minute illness....
10:59 < hprmbridge> kanzure> docl: the x-ray technique is searchable under "brain backups"
11:00 < hprmbridge> docl> Was that the gold nanoparticle concept?
11:00 < hprmbridge> docl> Ahh
11:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> I am not at my keyboard right now but you should find something with that.
11:02 < hprmbridge> docl> https://www.brainbackups.com/
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11:08 < hprmbridge> lachlan> 1 micron resolution?
11:40 < muurkha> Perry: please do not tell eleitl to go away.  His presence is very valuable.
11:41 < hprmbridge> Perry> Not if he’s Mr.  Depression.
11:41 < hprmbridge> Perry> He needs to dig himself out.
11:42 < muurkha> superkuh: scammers have been overloading the meaning of AI since the 01950s
11:43 < muurkha> Perry: knowledge doesn't have to come with cheerleading to be valuable
11:43 < muurkha> don't listen to him if it bothers you
11:43 < hprmbridge> Perry> it does have to come with not telling everyone that anything they do is futile and useless.
11:44 < hprmbridge> Perry> if I want to listen to that, I can join Eliezer’s cult.
11:44 < hprmbridge> Perry> Though admittedly BDSM orgies aren’t really my thing.
11:45 < nsh> tolerance is oft considered a virtue 
11:45 < muurkha> I don't see eleitl telling everyone that anything they do is futile and useless
11:46 < hprmbridge> docl> Let's just toughen up and not catch it, eh? Not everyone would necessarily be worth doing that for but he's technically savvy and the occasional dose of cold water can be healthy. Fair to set some boundaries of course. I don't go on about AGI risk stuff here.
11:46 < hprmbridge> Perry> AGI reward is awesome.
11:46 < hprmbridge> docl> Sure is
11:48 < nsh> perhaps a culture of reverence and respect for all beings might tend towards the better application of emergent technologies, and fostering such is more within our means than holding back the tide 
11:53 < juri_> yeah, we're boned.
11:54 < muurkha> can you elaborate, juri_?
11:55 < juri_> also, jesus christ on a pogo stick, am i tired of having this conversation over and over again. yes, AI is awesome. yes, there is a lot of potential. no, that doesn't mean you just get to stop doing stuff, and wait for the diamond age to gold plate your toilet paper. so much wasted conversation, so little doing stuff.
11:56 < hprmbridge> docl> IMO a balanced perspective is important. We do need to engineer for a low-risk outcome, it's allowed to work on that. Businesses need insurance, and spending a few cycles on x-risk should be par for the course. Definitely good to detect and shut down empty catastrophizing, take a few minutes to ground and center yourself if you notice it catching. Stick to your self care routine, improve it if it
11:56 < hprmbridge> docl> isn't working. Some comments you just have to let roll off like water from a duck's back. Working on constructive things and even just making constructive suggestions can be a powerful panacea.
11:57 < juri_> muurkha: as someone who has been regularly assaulted by people for being transgendered, and has had to flee my place of residence twice because of goddamned nazis, the odds of us suddenly deciding to have a culture of tolerance are much smaller than my odds of sprouting wings, and flying about the room.
11:58 < hprmbridge> Perry> What kind of wings wouldn’t you prefer after they come on the market?
11:58 < hprmbridge> Perry> (would you prefer)
11:58 < muurkha> juri_: oh, I see.  that sucks pretty hard
11:59 < muurkha> doing stuff is harder than chattering
11:59 < hprmbridge> Perry> I prefer doing too.
12:00 < juri_> i'm just seeing this same conversation everywhere, and people seem immune to saying we have hard problems to solve. i'm grumpy.
12:00 < hprmbridge> docl> Justifiably so
12:00 < muurkha> yeah
12:01 < juri_> also, white feathery wings.
12:01 < hprmbridge> Perry> personally, by the way, I don’t want wings. They seem like a big pain in the neck.
12:01 < juri_> i think i'd have to lose some weight to actually fly, too..
12:02 < juri_> tl;dr: currently bedridden because of a hip operation gone sideways. i'm at least 15 pounds over my norm, just because i can't get up and do anything.
12:03 < muurkha> oh shit, that doesn't sound very enjoyable at all
12:03 < muurkha> were you getting a hip rplacement?
12:03 < muurkha> *replacement
12:04 < juri_> no, i was basically having everything resurfaced. found out the hard way a few years back that if it's supposed to be round in my body, that it's a little warped. i don't think i've been able to run for 8 years.
12:06 < juri_> this is the second "take me apart, dremmel down the pieces, put me back together" operation i've had. hips gave out before the shoulders, in my case. my father had to have the shoulders done.
12:06 < juri_> if you wonder why i'm obsessed with bioprinting.. you try having my biology. :)
12:29 < docl> btw Perry is math-smart and may have constructive comments on your PGA software
12:30 < docl> this was the paper you referenced last time, I think https://arxiv.org/abs/1901.05873
12:34 < juri_> help is always appreciated, but i'm not in any deep holes right now. my next step is implementing more of https://diglib.tugraz.at/download.php?id=5c4a4913a9ed9&location=browse , followed by some improvements i've been working on, to allow for holes in the objects being sliced.
12:34 < juri_> I implemented some of it, and have dragged that implementation about as far as it can go.
12:34 < docl> right on
12:35 < juri_> .. god, i didn't realize that's 80+ pages. seems so small, now. :)
12:36 < docl> https://github.com/Haskell-Things/ImplicitCAD this project, right?
12:37 < juri_> nope. try https://github.com/Haskell-Things/HSlice :)
12:37 < docl> ahh
12:38 < juri_> If you know your PGA, https://github.com/Haskell-Things/HSlice/blob/master/Graphics/Slicer/Math/PGAPrimitives.hs is interesting. or maybe GeometricAlgebra.hs .
12:39 < juri_> the latter is a mutant framework that implements geometric algebra by discovering a subset of operations, and using the discovered operations to implement the more standard operations.
12:40 < juri_> instead of just wedge and dot, i've got like, unlike, and reductive operators.
12:41 < juri_> its all the same math in the end, but by using the more primitive operators along with knowing what i should be expecting as a result, i can save some CPU time.
12:41 < docl> nice! while AI is no substitute for doing things, I do get something out of having chatgpt explain topics to me. infinite patience for my dumb questions.
12:43 < juri_> i find it useful in it's imagination: it halucinates like someone who hasn't spent the last 3 years eyeball-deep in this stuff, so is useful for halucinating potential DSLs.
12:46 < docl> yeah it's funny and useful, no substitute for careful thought but powerful in its own way
12:51 < muurkha> juri_: I see, thanks!
12:51 < muurkha> I still don't understand Clifford algebras so I don't think I can offer any useful help
13:09 < juri_> don't forget to like, subscribe, ring the bell, and go to my patreon for tomorrows sarcasm today..
13:16 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I got chatgpt to hallucinate a new electron beam gun
13:17 < hprmbridge> nmz787> It was adamant that it wasn't the first to mention it in our conversation, until i copy pasted it's first reference back into the chat, and then it gave in
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15:12 < kanzure> ARPA-H https://sam.gov/opp/caf109b75a0449418ead3630cef1915e/view
15:14 < muurkha> nmz787_: is it a feasible design?
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17:47 < hprmbridge> Laezo> @lachlan u trying to launch a manufacturing startup?
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19:59 < nsh> potential DSLs?
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 18 00:00:36 2023