--- Log opened Fri May 12 00:00:58 2023
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02:27 < alethkit> fenn: Israeli kibbutz tried that
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02:57 < hprmbridge> alethkit> Update: I am unable to read logs, apparently.
03:00 < hprmbridge> alethkit> Also, I think the "childcare professionals" used to be female relatives of the extended family
03:00 < hprmbridge> alethkit> So unlikely to work in the nuclear family west
03:00 < hprmbridge> alethkit> blame the Catholic Church
03:09 < fenn> does this not work for you? https://gnusha.org/logs/2023-05-12.log
03:10 < fenn> or are you referring to some other logs that i should be aware of?
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04:09 < jrayhawk> they are referring to failing to notice the prior kibbutz talk
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04:36 < hprmbridge> kanzure> I don't see why the vertical integration needs to isolate the families from the rest of society. Homeschooling groups very commonly go use resources like parks, museums, lakes, sportsball fields, libraries, etc.
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06:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://people.csail.mit.edu/tk/ISAT96.pdf
06:44 < hprmbridge> msnewgooty> Can’t believe this was almost 30 years ago
06:45 < hprmbridge> docl> Some separation of form and function could be helpful. Perhaps not full time but as a very low cost babysitting substitute, kids could play for hours upon hours in VR recreations of nature while their bodies get exercise, healthy nutrient paste, and medical monitoring / care. Zero risk of permanent damage from like falling out of a tree. And their childhood digital objects (favorite climbing tree,
06:45 < hprmbridge> docl> AI raccoon, whatever) will be easy to keep around for a lifetime, helping ease attachment worries. The digital playground would also be able to vet adult participants and prevent child abuse, so the subjective experience of trusting strangers could be a thing. Lots of room for this sort of thing to generate massive amounts of utility for parents and thereby increase the median family size.
06:45 < hprmbridge> kanzure> you don't need VR for that.
06:46 < hprmbridge> kanzure> childcare can scale with traditional caregivers. large scale kitchens are a thing. cafeteria, laundry, etc.
06:46 < hprmbridge> docl> you don't have to need it for it to be helpful. there's psychological benefits to a natural setting.
06:48 < hprmbridge> docl> imagine the perfect childhood, and what makes that cheap and safe to provide. VR could be incredibly useful.
06:51 < hprmbridge> docl> but yeah I'd move to a well designed physical implementation in a heartbeat
06:51 < hprmbridge> docl> assuming I could afford it and so on
07:52 < hprmbridge> docl> it seems like the challenge with forming a compound like this is not starting a cult for real
07:55 < hprmbridge> docl> I think religions are mainly insulated from that by scale. like, they tend to have equivalently ridiculous beliefs but there's this thing where if you don't like how your home church handles things you just go to a different one. this dynamic breaks down in isolated rural areas at times.
08:05 < hprmbridge> kanzure> why does it need to be a cult
08:07 < hprmbridge> docl> it doesn't, but there's pressures that direction
08:08 < hprmbridge> docl> you need a coordinating strategy of some kind because people will bicker and not get stuff done. unless you spend money and hire help I guess
08:09 < hprmbridge> docl> so having a leader who lays down the law works for the small scale. tribalism with a chief, kind of thing
08:11 < hprmbridge> docl> as you get bigger the leader has to delegate more. that dilutes their personal power. also dilutes efficiency though. efficiency and power are not quite exactly the same, but tend to intertangle
08:16 < hprmbridge> kanzure> just pay people.
08:22 < hprmbridge> docl> ok with money it can be a different dynamic. still need organizational competence though. also I think an important variable is everyone having good exit options, so if they ever don't want to be there they can scoot. that gives a systemic incentive to be not-terrible. parenting adds a layer of like not wanting to force your kids to change environments too much, but you can probably compensate for
08:22 < hprmbridge> docl> that with money
08:34 < hprmbridge> docl> maybe instead of calling it a human gigafactory you could call it a nerd ranch. instead of raising herds of regular dudes from zygote to adulthood like dude ranges presumably do, we raise herds of nerds.
08:37 < L29Ah> i wonder if China has a Class-D personnel factory yet
08:37 < hprmbridge> docl> I would suggest aerographene cloud city or antarctic ice tunnels for the location, but I guess if you want boring options a literal texas ranch would work too
08:39 < kanzure> just buy real property that already exists next or within existing infrastructure.
08:41 < hprmbridge> docl> ok what jurisdiction?
08:42 < hprmbridge> docl> this is our "in case of billionaire break glass" idea if they happen to be a population collapse worrier like elon, right?
08:46 < hprmbridge> docl> and I bring up the cult thing because it's a predictable worry people will have, not because it's inevitable or something. like I said, it's partly cause by the pressures of small scale, and I think you can insulate against the problem pretty well (guaranteed exit money seems like a pretty solid solution)
08:48 < hprmbridge> docl> I kind of like Oregon as a possible location. we have one member there already, and it's cryonics friendly with a thriving tech industry. left coast but not California. seems like it hits the sweet spot IMO. lots of rural enough spaces if you go inland.
08:50 < hprmbridge> docl> although it has the same problem as anywhere in the US, obscene immigration restrictions
09:09 < hprmbridge> docl> https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/realestate/single-mother-households-co-living.html
10:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> So far VR hasn't worked too well just due to the weight of the systems (though maybe my oculus rift is considered old and heavy now, idk)
10:05 < hprmbridge> Alma2562> Sounds like home 🙂
10:05 < L29Ah> so far VR works really well due to the human attention concentration capacity, just one should remember that the state of the art VR isn't the clunky HMDs and controllers, but keyboards, mice and monitors
10:34 < docl> well current headsets are not super close to what I imagine good VR would be like. ideally you just climb into the pod and your real world environment vanishes. doesn't have to be particularly lightweight if you aren't moving your head physically
10:36 < docl> and yes you can get lost in a virtual world with monitor/mouse/keyboard. just not quite good enough that you don't need to go outside and see trees from time to time
10:36 < docl> dense urban areas tend to depress me
10:42 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Docl living rural has actually made me less cynical of dense urban areas. Though it hasn't given me any more hope that cities will soon become less gross/polluted
10:58 < docl> rural has its own downsides, to be sure
11:27 < muurkha> nmz787__: that sounds interesting!  less cynical how?
11:28 < muurkha> I've been in cities that are pretty clean and unpolluted, though this isn't one of them
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11:52 < hprmbridge> kanzure> Ryan Fugger (Rumplepay) goes way back... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger_family
12:40 < kanzure> molecular animation lecture https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbyzEiBvbXw
12:40 < docl> I watched this movie a few months ago. kind of implausible premise given the square cube law, but I guess reasonably hard sf for stories about shrinking people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downsizing_(film)
12:41 < kanzure> it was a depressing and annoying story
12:41 < kanzure> don't watch it.
12:43 < docl> lol, very divorced main character
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13:53 < kanzure> http://www.bioblender.org/
13:54 < kanzure> https://www.youtube.com/@BradyJohnston
14:02 < kanzure> https://clarafi.com/showcase/
14:12 < kanzure> cellscape showreel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtChKn7tdVI
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14:44 < muurkha> nmz787: ^
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14:55 < hprmbridge> kanzure> something something jurassic horizontal gene transfer and reconstruction of jurassic genomes https://twitter.com/Kemmishtree/status/1657139297227788288
14:57 < hprmbridge> kanzure> @Kemmishtree elaborate
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15:57 < fenn> dino dna gets randomly incorporated into viruses, those viruses get randomly incorporated into genomic dna of non-dinos which don't get extincted
15:57 < hprmbridge> kanzure> yeah.
15:57 < hprmbridge> kanzure> or microbes
15:57 < fenn> the trouble is knowing that it used to be dino dna
16:02 < muurkha> neat
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23:32 < mrdata> yes how do you knowit is dino dna? well, we have some idea about that, from birds
23:32 < mrdata> but have any dino proteins been found?
23:35 < fenn> the rate of horizontal gene transfer is very low in the first place, and unless there's a benefit it will probably get deleted quickly
23:36 < fenn> also i don't know
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--- Log closed Sat May 13 00:00:59 2023