--- Log opened Mon May 22 00:00:08 2023
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01:18 < hprmbridge> eleitl> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36024901
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02:07 < hprmbridge> Katylase> Hi friends! So guess what...? I decided to DIY a spectrometer! It's for my final HS thesis which I will be presenting next year (I chose spectroscopy as a topic, but I don't know what to measure yet...😅 But I surely find something interesting...)
03:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what kind of spectrometer?
03:05 < hprmbridge> Katylase> A regular visible light one, they are relatively easy to build
03:17 < L29Ah> what kinds of analyses can a visible light spectrometer help you perform over a plain sight or photo?
03:22 < nsh> analyse the spectrum?
03:23 < nsh> .gpt4 explain spectrography like i'm five and was schooled in a failed state
03:23 < gptpaste> ​Spectrography is like a special way to look at light. Imagine you have a rainbow, with all its different colors. Now, think of a machine that can separate those colors even more and tell us what they are made of.This machine is called a spectrograph, and it helps scientists learn about things like stars, planets, and other stuff in space by looking at the light they give off. - http://sprunge.us/oMWcYy
03:28 < hprmbridge> Katylase> You can find the exact wavelengths the light source emits, or how these wavelengths pass through different things (how much of them)
03:28 < hprmbridge> Katylase> You can't see this with your eyes😅
03:28 < L29Ah> ikr, i'm wondering how you're going to apply it
03:29 < hprmbridge> Katylase> That's the thing... I don't know what to measure yet😅
03:29 < L29Ah> most biologically relevant substances look white to me for example, so likely a visible light spectrometer wouldn't be of much use i think
03:30 < L29Ah> i can only think of flame spectrophotometry
03:35 < hprmbridge> Katylase> I had an idea to compare color perception index of different light sources (cool/bluish white Vs warm/yellowish white) like, under what light you see the colors best
03:35 < hprmbridge> Katylase> Idk if it's a good idea...
03:41 < nsh> the proof of the pudding is in the eating :)
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07:05 < hprmbridge> kanzure> @nmz787 was building a photospectrometer a while back.
07:24 < hprmbridge> kanzure> .gpt4 smallest length of a RNA virus genome in bp
07:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> w.r.t the earlier link about machine learning and chemistry it would help if the chemistry databases were open access. The chemistry industry has done this to itself. Right now the machine learning elves just use a USPTO data set for training.
07:52 < hprmbridge> kanzure> what was the idea for a protein to make carbon nanotubes? did we document that anywhere?
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14:47 < fenn> this seems like an afternoon's project https://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/light/cd_spectroscope/spectroscope.html
14:51 < fenn> i've wanted to build a raman spectrometer for a while now, but that's rather next-level. the notch filter to block out the excitation laser fequency is the only really expensive part, but apparently these can be had cheaply now ($28 on the slow boat from china) https://www.ebay.com/itm/264456294120
14:55 < fenn> another actually useful tool is an alpha particle x-ray fluorescence spectrometer, which can be as simple as a radioactive pellet from a smoke alarm, a PIN photodiode to sense the emitted x-rays, an op-amp to boost the signal which is proportional to x-ray frequency, and a microprocessor to collect data and average out the noise over a long period. it's low power so it's safe but it also takes a
14:55 < fenn> long time to get a reading 
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15:14 < fenn> a raman spectrometer is more useful for organic chemistry or drug identification, and the APXS is more useful for alloy identification and geology
15:15 < fenn> in addition to actually building the device, you have to somehow find a database of similar spectra of known compounds, or else you just have a bunch of funny squiggly lines and that's not very helpful
15:16 < fenn> x-ray fluorescence is proportional to atomic number, so that makes it easy to notice individual elements
15:16 < fenn> but with raman fluorescence it's just an incomprehensible "fingerprint"
15:26 < fenn> https://store.scitoys.com/diffraction-grating-film.html
15:29 < L29Ah> fenn: why did you pick the green? is it particularily good for raman?
15:29 < L29Ah> or it happened that the cheap filters match only the relatively widespread green lasers?
15:30 < fenn> the latter
15:30 < fenn> you can get stupidly high power green lasers too
15:32 < fenn> .t https://www.edinst.com/us/blog/lasers-for-raman-spectroscopy/
15:32 < EmmyNoether> How to Choose Your Lasers for Raman Spectroscopy | Quick Guide
15:32 < L29Ah> > but with raman fluorescence it's just an incomprehensible "fingerprint"
15:32 < L29Ah> even less comprehensible than NMR?
15:34 < L29Ah> https://static.horiba.com/fileadmin/Horiba/_processed_/2/b/csm_fig_3_Raman_spectra_of_ethanol_and_methanol_01_b02b360a27.jpg yes
15:37 < fenn> since a 532 nm green laser is just a 1064 nm NIR laser with a doubler crystal in front, you can take it apart and convert it to infrared fairly easily. but then you'll have to find a 1064 nm notch filter
15:38 < fenn> oh and apparently you need a monochromator and InGaAs sensor
15:38 < fenn> vs just a cheap visible light camera
15:41 < fenn> it'd be neat to have some sort of bayesian math in the raman spectrometer software to give you a confidence score for it being one substance or another
15:42 < fenn> as it collects more signal during a long exposure you'll get higher confidence scores and the ordered ranking of most likely guess will change
15:43 < fenn> hrm well most machine learning stuff gives you that by default these days
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15:55 < fenn> the hypothetical enzyme for stitching together short carbon nanotubes was a really off the cuff idea and that's pretty much the whole idea
15:57 < fenn> someone mentioned that the hard part with CVD nanotube growth was getting the starting radius of the growing nanotube in the correct size range. a biological scaffolding could maybe help constrain the size of the initial hemisphere of carbon, which is sort of like a seed crystal
16:06 < kanzure> "Electrical recognition of the twenty proteinogenic amino acids using an aerolysin nanopore" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-019-0345-2 (2019)
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16:15 < kanzure> poor superkuh
16:15 < kanzure> lost a hard drive again?
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--- Log closed Tue May 23 00:00:09 2023