--- Log opened Fri Jun 02 00:00:18 2023
00:03 < nsh>  did someone update the spreadsheet?
00:03 < nsh> (ML objective function hacking 'surprises' spreadsheet)
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01:11 < fenn> i couldn't find a link to the ai surprises misalignment misgeneralization spreadsheet google doc in the logs, so here it is: http://tinyurl.com/goal-misgeneralisation https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTo3RkXUAigb25nP7gjpcHriR6XdzA_L5loOcVFj_u7cRAZghWrYKH2L2nU4TA_Vr9KzBX5Bjpz9G_l/pubhtml
01:12 < fenn> one of them anyway, there were two
01:16 < fenn> the other one had more genetic algorithm and alife unintended/unexpected behavior
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03:48 < stipa> https://www.wect.com/2023/06/01/nc-study-discovers-chemical-common-sweetener-damages-dna-can-cause-cancer/
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04:08 < fenn> You are given $40,000 - how do you spend it?
04:08 < fenn> (A)  down payment for house
04:08 < fenn> (B)  a single H100 GPU
04:18 < stipa> i would go with 50/50, 20k on the house and 20k on an older GPU model that is equally fast as the H100
04:19 < stipa> or, maybe you could tent the H100 in a random data centre for 20k
04:19 < stipa> rent
04:20 < stipa> or, you could learn how GPUs are made on low level and optimize you existing card
04:21 < stipa> and spend it all on the down payment for house
04:22 < stipa> you just have to wait a bit longer for a slower GPU to do it
04:37 < fenn> i've always avoided splenda, it makes me feel awful very consistently
04:38 < fenn> frustrating when products switch formulations and then there's just no alternative
04:39 < stipa> yeah, there's a bunch of unavoidable traps
04:39 < stipa> https://bgr.com/science/revolutionary-invention-transforms-seawater-into-hydrogen-fuel/
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04:53 < stipa> dang, that research is around 1000 pages
04:54 < stipa> the benfit is it could be deployed on the sea shores of deserts where sun is of strong intensity and where's plenty of sea water
04:55 < stipa> the biggest issue would be cleaning the sand dust
05:13 < L29Ah> fenn: spend it all on ₿, but if it's not an option, then real estate
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05:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> protein structure prediction and novelty https://arxiv.org/abs/2306.00872
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08:22 < muurkha> fenn: what product?
08:29 < muurkha> fenn: the spreadsheet on "specificaiton gaming examples on AI" you are looking for is https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRPiprOaC3HsCf5Tuum8bRfzYUiKLRqJmbOoC-32JorNdfyTiRRsR7Ea5eWtvsWzuxo8bjOxCG84dAg/pubhtml
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09:22 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Stipa you beat me to posting about the sucralose thing!
09:26 < stipa> nmz787: that's a good quality research
09:27 < stipa> modern and practical
09:29 < docl> https://www.wral.com/story/nc-study-discovers-chemical-in-common-sweetener-damages-dna-can-cause-cancer/20888182/
09:31 < stipa> docl: i didn't really understood the chemistry part
09:32 < stipa> but i get it overall
09:32 < docl> obviously not severely carcinogenic or they'd have caught it by now. but apparently it's fat soluble and builds up over time, kills intestinal symbiotes, damages tight junctions
09:33 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Probably synergizes with gluten too in terms of gut leakage
09:33 < docl> cacinogenic is kind of a spectrum, so some skepticism tends to be merited when people say that. burnt toast is carcinogenic, sunlight is carcinogenic (ok that you should worry about)
09:36 < stipa> well, it's not an instant kill that's for sure
09:36 < muurkha> probably we should stop banning things for being carcinogenic if they're less carcinogenic than sunlight.  maybe measured in terms of expected YPLL rather than in terms of absolute rate
09:37 < docl> yeah
09:37 < docl> buildup in the body over time is worth thinking about. sun damage does that, in the skin at least
09:39 < muurkha> that's just because damage does that
09:40 < muurkha> ultraviolet itself is the least bioaccumulative carcinogen ever
09:41 < stipa> and, recently, there's a lot of that, to the point of a enormous blaze all over the planet in the least expected places like canada 
09:42 < docl> muurkha: thanks, I stepped afk for a minute and realized what I just said. yeah it's not like UV itself builds up. crucial distinction
09:45 < docl> I gotta put some math together re UVC mirrors. UVC doesn't make it through the atmosphere, it enriches ozone in the stratosphere. which affects the weather. I'm mostly interested in that as a weather control mechanism, but a side effect would be reducing surface UVB
09:46 < docl> ozone absorbs UVB (the fraction of sunlight that actually reaches us and causes skin cancer)
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09:55 < stipa> weather control is a bit complex IMO
09:57 < stipa> the question is if it's even an autonomous system
09:57 < stipa> or an living entity
09:58  * muurkha DCCs stipa some more DMT
10:00 < docl> lol, some things in common perhaps but it doesn't self replicate so it doesn't evolve long term like we do. watch the Gershenfeld interview if you want insights about the nature of life
10:01 < stipa> docl: maybe try it in a small model or a computer sim
10:01 < stipa> if you get predictable control of it you're golden
10:02 < stipa> new stuff in GPUs, Ray Tracing is a neat stuff
10:02 < stipa> can emulate particles, light, air...
10:03 < stipa> i guess you could emulate pressure differences for example
10:03 < stipa> cold air hitting hot and observe
10:04 < stipa> could be that the sea level also has an influence on it all
10:05 < stipa> could be that it can calculate and draw gases
10:06 < stipa> i've seen it mentioned emulating acoustic spaces and movement of sound through air, hitting and reflecting of surfaces
10:07 < stipa> https://odeon.dk/product/ray-tracing/
10:08 < stipa> "A special application of ray tracing is the Particle tracing, which means that the rays are considered carriers of patches of acoustic energy travelling around the room along the rays with the speed of sound, and after each reflection the energy is reduced according to the absorption properties of the surfaces. "
10:09 < stipa> https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article-abstract/519/4/6028/6985635?redirectedFrom=fulltext
10:10 < stipa> and so on
10:10 < stipa> judging by my last link you can emulate whole planet with AI
10:10 < stipa> hardware
10:23 < docl> you may not need to predict very far if you have the ability to add energy to the stratosphere in a controlled way. a responsive control system can make a relatively unpredictable system more predictable.
10:24 < docl> like walking -- you dynamically adjust as needed
10:25  * muurkha passes stipa the bong
10:26  * stipa takes a deep one
10:27 < stipa> docl: you would want a small sim model for sure due to probably extensive number of calculations 
10:28 < stipa> emulating each atom of an planets atmosphere is compley
10:28 < stipa> x
10:29 < stipa> start with simple things
10:29 < stipa> combine two molecules and see what the sim does, if the same happens in real you're on a right track
10:31 < stipa> on top of that all those atoms and molecules have to interact
10:32 < stipa> in a nutshell, your emulation will be as a real thing if done right
10:35 < stipa> could be possible with a computer
10:35 < stipa> with NPU, GPU and CPU
10:35 < stipa> but, something like that you'll have to code yourself for sure
10:37 < L29Ah> nosepick processing unit
12:07 < docl> https://chat.openai.com/share/c24445cd-4c82-4a72-bbd0-37ebcc6135f7
12:09 < docl> over time in a 2D simulation, light pressure will nudge hydrogen particles to impact at the center of a circle.
12:29 < docl> hmm, no, it still happens if I remove the photons. so it's either geometrical or a simulation artifact
12:30 < docl> geometrical explanation: lateral bounces cancel out over time, whereas bounces towards the center do not
12:38 < L29Ah> AttributeError: partially initialized module 'pygame' has no attribute 'init' (most likely due to a circular import)
12:39 < L29Ah> does it need some ancient pygame version or smth?
12:39 < docl> no, I just installed with pip
12:39 < docl> pygame 2.4.0 (SDL 2.26.4, Python 3.10.6)
12:41 < docl> huh, I get that error from the repl, but saving as a file and running it with python works fine
12:43 < docl> er, no I was seeing something different
12:45 < docl> adding hydrogen-hydrogen collisions back in causes them to go back to mostly randomized.
12:45 < L29Ah> ah right
12:45  * L29Ah named the file "pygame.py", that was a grave mistake :D
12:46 < docl> oops! :)
12:46 < L29Ah> cute stuff
12:46 < L29Ah> mind that every nucleon-mirror collision means you lose a lot of energy and vaporize a chunk of mirror
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14:19 < hprmbridge> nmz787> New mower https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1114302181684813874/PXL_20230602_211328138.jpg
14:19 < hprmbridge> nmz787>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1114302196624928878/PXL_20230602_211313771.jpg
14:22 < L29Ah> can it take your kid to school?
14:45 < hprmbridge> nmz787> not highway legal 😄
16:15 < fenn> berndj> imagine microsoft products with the security posture they held in the 1990s but turbocharged with AI
16:16 < berndj> fenn, i gather they've gotten a bit better at security over the years. i remember it being an absolute shitshow
16:19 < fenn> the full weight of "prompt injection attacks" hasn't really been made clear yet
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17:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://towardsdatascience.com/large-language-models-in-molecular-biology-9eb6b65d8a30
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 03 00:00:19 2023