--- Log opened Sun Jul 30 00:00:14 2023
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09:48 < nsh> https://sciencecast.org/casts/suc384jly50n
09:51 < nsh> https://hackmd.io/@sanxiyn/S1hejVXo3  (korean)
10:21 < docl> hmm. electroplating makes pure metal crystals typically. rather than grow the apatites during that step it might be easiest to do copper on one plate, lead on the other, and a thin phosphoric acid layer between them. then apply pressure and heat, draw, hammer, etc to get ~ Pb9Cu1(PO4)6O
10:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Docl and his accidental discovery of the sticky tape manufacturing method of ~~graphene~~ Lk99 is imminent lol
10:22 < docl> the question in my mind is how to ensure the Cu replaces Pb(2) instead of Pb(1). also how to get it to be homogeneous all the same molecule instead of more/less Pb/Cu
10:23 < docl> lol have probably read about that for graphene somewhere. I'll refresh my memory now though
10:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah that's my main issue to, I'm thinking maybe sputtering magnetrons might allow for sufficient precision deposition. Like iirc high entropy alloys are hard to make but appear to be doable if you use a sputtering magnetron with multiple targets which prevents some of the issues with proper mixing
10:27 < docl> yeah magnetic control is one thought that occurred to me. if you have correct ratios on steel plates/foil and press them together, maybe you can privilege the SC version of the substance by doing it in a strong magnetic field? or maybe if you do it under current (as non-SC crystals will produce joule heating)
10:28 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Ooh that's a nice idea
10:28 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Kinda like annealing, the non superconducting domains would be heated up and thus selected against
10:28 < hprmbridge> nyxtelius> Interesting
10:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Have to continuously cool the sample you're trying to grow so heat flow wouldn't warm up the SC domains
10:32 < docl> evolution :)
10:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Maybe I can get my nuggets of superconductor afterall lol
10:32 < docl> good point. maybe you can only do it with short bursts at a time
10:33 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Tbh I just like using magnetrons they're neat
10:34 < docl> I figure if you believe it with like 20% confidence it's arguably worth speedrunning the diy route. could beat the academic labs trying to follow the original recipe :)
10:35 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah, I'm not anywhere with lab space ATM tho, only got a dev environment thanks to my VPN setup
10:35 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> What's the manifold market at now last I checked it was 15
10:36 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Oh back up to 19
10:36 < docl> nice, I bought another 100 last night when it was 16
10:37 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Time to buy transmission line construction company stocks lol
10:39 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Poly is at 19 as well
10:45 < docl> sticky tape, huh? some variables to control there vs electroplating on stainless, but might have advantages e.g. not being a conductor
10:46 < docl> the separating layers could be high temp plastic
10:48 < docl> I have a garage, not really set up to be a lab. might be able to make it work though
10:55 < docl> the Cu substituted form is 0.48% smaller, so maybe it evolves under pressure? if you apply even coatings and even pressure on two sandwiched plates, they should "want" to shrink by the same amount. but that might only be true for ultra thin crystals, as a mixture of Cu10 : Pb10 forms will be small in bulk as well
10:56 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> DIY sputtering magnetron to make thin coats? Lol
10:57 < docl> well probably not that version, I'm still in my own rabbithole :)
10:57 < docl> uh, magnetron = microwave oven tho right?
10:59 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> This guy did a few videos on them: https://youtu.be/XHQxghdj2ks
10:59 < Muaddib> [XHQxghdj2ks] Metal Coating using PLASMA (Part 1 - How it works) (23:45)
10:59 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> That's his "professional" build his earlier one was made out of jam jars
11:00 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> https://youtu.be/Cyu7etM-0Ko
11:00 < Muaddib> [Cyu7etM-0Ko] My First Successful Metal Coating Machine - Magnetron Sputtering (19:27)
11:00 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> This guys done a bunch of cool stuff
11:00 < docl> neato :) watching now
11:01 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> He also temporarily fixed his lactose intolerance using a viral vector and succeeded
11:02 < docl> so many things to try... inkjet delivery of nL quantities of reagents?
11:04 < docl> it's a 1d effect, so maybe if you repeatedly inkjet the materials in straight lines it would privilege a nice crystal structure
11:05 < docl> or you could apply coats along a fiber length. the linear direction might be privileged for small fibers due to the tighter arc angle
11:06 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Hmm I've avoided it reading the lit on forming microdroplets but I guess
11:06 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I have planned to experiment with microfluidics for a while tho
11:06 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> But nothing that high precision
11:15 < hprmbridge> nmz787> ALD  (atomic layer deposition) is the ultimate in layer control
11:15 < hprmbridge> nmz787> you gotta develop the right chemistry though
11:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I would sell my kidney for workable diamondoid mechanosynthesis
11:18 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Like once you got that the only barrier to utility fog or full nanofactories etc is just getting people to design them
11:18 < nsh> temporarily fixing your lactose intolerance by not consuming lactose seems more efficient
11:19 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Prolly would be wiser
11:19 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I think you'd need about a billion kidneys
11:20 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Prolly, I think we're finally catching up on the required precision to bootstrap iirc
11:20 < nsh> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timeline_of_Superconductivity_from_1900_to_2015.svg   why woudl you only graph temperature
11:20 < nsh> surely you graph a function of temperature and pressure
11:20 < nsh> just a waste of time otherwise
11:21 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah a convex hull of temperature pressure over time would be better
11:21 < nsh> i mean there's sporadic pressure information in the graph
11:21 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Like iirc you can get room temp if you're willing to go for insane pressures can't remember what the current sota on that is
11:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I know there was a retracted paper that claimed some impressive numbers that could likely be achieved by inducing strain in a material
11:37 < docl> you might be able to spray dry a dilute copper/lead/phosphoric solution with the right ratios for apatite crystals as a bulk synthesis method
11:38 < docl> if it's more dilute you get smaller crystals (fraction of droplet size)
12:09 < docl> that would enable high throughput, but not the kind of control that might be needed to ensure it's uniformly 1 Cu(2)... unless you can evolve that form by joule heating or privilege it magnetically, etc
12:24 < docl> a precision mechanism using positional factors might be doable with fine glass fiber. you could expose the fiber to solution containing lead ions on one side, then to the copper ion solution on the other. the ions in the solutions spread relatively evenly due to like charge repulsion, so when you add phosphate ions you could have it only have the correct ratio of atoms in range to react with. and the 
12:24 < docl> PO4- would more easily move to Pb side at first because it has more positive ions, so the inner positions get filled with Pb
12:25 < docl> and since apatite is not very soluble, you might be able to repeat this until you have a 1D crystal along the fiber
12:34 < docl> https://github.com/philipturner/molecular-renderer
12:37 < docl> https://github.com/philipturner/noble-gas-md-simulation
14:29 < docl> "Apatites and their Synthetic Analogues - Synthesis, Structure, Properties and Applications" https://www.intechopen.com/books/4783
14:35 < docl> chapter 4 https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/49959 "The synthesis of lead bromapatite (Pb10(PO4)6Br2) by solid-state synthesis via sintering of equal amount of Pb9(PO4)6 and PbBr2 at the temperature of 250°C in a platinum tube"
14:38 < docl> seems to mean Pb9(PO4)6 is a form you can get. just needs Cu + O to make LK-99
14:56 < nsh> superconductivity isn't when you arrange a sequence of letters and numbers correctly :)
14:56 < nsh> there's somewhat nuance to it than that 
14:56 < nsh> +more
14:57 < nsh> specifically it's a property of a lattice
14:58 < nsh> https://twitter.com/DanielvonDungen/status/1685249584245673984
15:00 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> This books prolly had a massive surge in interest lol
15:01 < nsh> https://twitter.com/floates0x/status/1685662083084632064
15:15 < nsh> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0375947421001846
15:17 < nsh> if there's an antiferromagnetic phase transition in LK99 that would be interesting
15:17 < nsh> https://space.bilibili.com/7590247/dynamic
15:18 < nsh> undoubtedly some kind of geometric frustration at play
15:20 < nsh> there's some kinda livecast of the replication attempt at that bilibili link if one has sufficient merit to get it to play
15:20 < nsh> probably helps to use some kind of translation tool 
15:21 < nsh> ah perhaps it was just live, not recorded
15:22 < nsh> in any case, such are likely to try again
15:24 < nsh> wonder why bilibili doesn't like [my] firefox [setup]
15:24 < nsh> mebbes adblockers or something
15:30 < docl> jut because it's LK-99 
15:30 < docl> doesn't make it RTSC
15:31 < docl> needs the proper crystalline structure. which seems to depend on the copper substitution at a minimum, but there could be other factors of course
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 31 00:00:15 2023