--- Log opened Wed Aug 02 00:00:17 2023
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03:12 < fenn> democracy doesn't scale well either
03:13 < fenn> what's a way to select a neutral arbiter to recognize that two lines of argument are actually the same? how do you decide the outcome of the argument?
03:15 < fenn> lately we've been having a bit of crisis of alternative facts
03:20 < fenn> it would also be tiresome to have to pollute the legal code with millions of debunked hoaxes and fabrications for each issue
03:23 < fenn> since i'm going about restructuring law and government, i'd also like to eliminate legal precedent as a way to establish what is and is not legal, and introduce a way to petition the court to decide whether and action is or is not legal before actually doing it
03:24 < fenn> far too many important issues are decided by whatever silly case happened to land before the court first, like for example this google vs authors guild thing
03:33 < nsh> tuesday: restructure law and government. wednesday: maybe get nails done
03:34 < nsh> thursday: restructure ambitions. friday: chop wood, carry water
03:36 < fenn> perhaps i should have been more clear - this is still participatory government, anyone can submit a piece of evidence or supporting point for or against an argument, and it would be structured as a bayesian tree with the outcome being a policy decision. you could reference other arguments by transclusion for readability, collapse multiple ways of saying the same thing into one line of argument,
03:36 < fenn> eliminate fallacies
03:37 < fenn> nsh: note that this came up in the context of self determination
03:37 < fenn> vitalik ostensibly cares deeply about scanning all of our buttholes because of decision making in DAOs
03:37 < fenn> so it is actionable on a personal level
03:41 < nsh> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.16040
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06:14 < L29Ah> 12:13:41]<fenn> what's a way to select a neutral arbiter to recognize that two lines of argument are actually the same? how do you decide the outcome of the argument?
06:14 < L29Ah> pick whoever both you and your counterparty is ok with duh
06:16 < L29Ah> 12:12:30]<fenn> democracy doesn't scale well either
06:16 < L29Ah> well it doesn't wreck somehow for hundreds of years at least
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11:17 < docl> hmm. spray drying lead copper oxyapatite might produce 5nm nanocrystals if similar enough to calcium hydroxyapatite https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4856199/
11:19 < docl> to convert it to superconducting lk-99, a gas flow technique involving magnetic separation and repeated heating of the nanocrystals might be used
11:21 < docl> the gas could be chilled to ensure the nanocrystals don't stay liquid for very long, and they could be positively charged so they tend not to come into contact with each other
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11:34 < fenn> why do we want nanocrystals? and why not let them come into contact?
11:37 < fenn> is this some quantum computing thing?
11:38 < fenn> or just for enrichment of superconducting vs non-superconducting particles?
11:38 < stipa> CNOT: is a quantum guy
11:38 < fenn> i think the poor LK-99 yield so far is due to not burning off all the sulfur
11:41 < stipa> is that like cheap superconductivity at room temperature?
11:41 < docl> the latter. I'm expecting usually the copper goes to the wrong place
11:43 < docl> like if you mix the right ratios you'll get 2Cu8PbX instead of Cu9PbX a lot of the time, and then there's the question of where the copper lands wrt the rest of it. ultrapure atomically precise across the whole crystal has low probability, but this lets you try a bunch of times in parallel
11:44 < fenn> isn't strain a bulk property
11:44 < fenn> i mean, thermodynamically you'd expect the Cu to be evenly dispersed
11:45 < docl> I think this is entirely different from bulk strain
11:45 < fenn> it doesn't matter if every individual crystal lattice cell has exactly the right ratios does it?
11:45 < docl> unknown, but the pessimistic answer is yes it matters
11:48 < docl> if they clump, you have to stop and grind them at some point. may be tricky to not introduce impurities
11:52 < CNOT> hello
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11:53 < docl> hi CNOT 
11:55 < docl> stipa: yes, ideally we would want a bulk powder
11:56 < stipa> docl: bulk powder?
11:56 < docl> IMO thin film only could be useful too, like stackable film strips -> magnet coils. might be limited use given the magnetic saturation point
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11:57 < docl> stipa: yeah, it would be useful to sinter or put on tape. maybe add to plastic filaments to let you 3d print electronics
11:58 < stipa> as of what i know is that electrons collide with material structure and there's some heat created due friction what is the cause of materials not being able to be superconductive
11:59 < stipa> docl: there are some working prototypes of 3D printed chips
12:00 < stipa> also bendable ones
12:00 < stipa> that work in tandem with what you have in mind
12:00 < docl> it's like side currents form and randomize. not friction exactly. 1d columns for the electrons to follow could change this
12:01 < stipa> bendable plastics with chips/electronics on them that bend too
12:01 < fenn> at nanoscale everything is bendy
12:02 < docl> https://twitter.com/fodagut/status/1686797346452156416 explainer (in progress)
12:03 < stipa> right, i see
12:03 < stipa> what's about toyota and solid state batteries in 2025? is that a fad or reality?
12:05 < fenn> heh he's still tweeting
12:09 < docl> stipa: I don't know anything about toyota. solid state is pretty fascinating in general tho :)
12:10 < stipa> docl: it's hot news 
12:11 < stipa> but i don't really see if it's actually real thing anywhere 
12:11 < stipa> full charge under 10 mins and around 700 - 1000 miles 
12:17 < docl> are they electrochemical batteries or like ultracapacitors?
12:18 < stipa> i guess they're dry
12:19 < stipa> maybe dry electrolyte
12:19 < docl> eh I just googled. is electrochemical, just uses a solid electrolyte
12:19 < stipa> right
12:29 < fenn> how about bombarding apatite with copper ions
12:31 < docl> that's a good idea, one of my first thoughts. however it still seems like it's going to be stochastic and once you get too many copper substitutions you have to start over
12:32 < docl> maybe you fix it by bombarding with lead
12:33 < fenn> how about block copolymer synthesis or engineered proteins
12:34 < docl> might be doable, yes
12:35 < docl> maybe just engineer the genes for bones
12:35 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> fenn's on a quest for a protein superconductor?
12:35 < docl> or look for people who experience strange things around magnetic fields and see what's going on
12:36 < docl> could be trace RTAPSC crystals involved in that
12:36 < fenn> we'll harvest all the alien implants to use as raw material
12:37 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I don't think copper ion bombardation would be viable unless you can somehow bias the energetics such that it is highly biased in the substitutions, some of the theory suggests that the lattice locations where you want your copper are higher energy ones iirc
12:38 < docl> mechanosynthesis can create some implausible crystals https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.6b00277
12:39 < docl> "An exciting aspect of mechanochemistry is access to molecules whose isolation has so far been perceived impossible. In 2014, Rightmire et al. reported the synthesis of a tris(allyl)aluminum complex based on the sterically hindered bis(trimethylsilyl)allyl ligand (Figure 3a)."
12:40 < fenn> would x-ray diffraction show the difference between a "good" and a "bad" configuration of copper dopants?
12:41 < docl> can you photonically sort the good from bad? put it through a tube and nudge the good ones down one path and bad down another
12:41 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah mechanosynthesis would allow for almost arbitrary crystals to be made perfectly.
12:41 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Like we could prolly make the crystal manually with a scanning microscope now but tiny amounts (a few atoms), but if we could bootstrap a real mechanosynthesis toolchain we'd be set
12:41 < fenn> i don't think this requires full blown nanotech
12:41 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> probably not, would be nice though and make manufacture trivial
12:42 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> (I just really want diamond mechanosynthesis)
12:42 < fenn> i also want a diamondoid pony
12:42 < docl> full blown nanotech makes it easier, but like there might be a way to exploit mechanical forces to encourage it to happen
12:42 < fenn> well there is a lot of grinding and crystallizing and regrinding in the LK-99 paper
12:42 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Full scale monocrystal diamnoid pony right? we're going big or going home
12:43 < docl> https://machinephase.systems/
12:43 < docl> all aboard! :)
12:43 < fenn> carbon nanotube muscles, respirocyte blood, or heck let's just make it fusion powered while we're at it
12:44 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> none of that humanity 2.0 we want horse 2.0
12:44 < fenn> the air horse
12:45 < fenn> air horse 2: the reckoning
12:45 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Replace neural substrate with 3D molecular quantum dot cellular automata as well then if we want computronium brains
12:45 < docl> anyway with thin layer you might induce strain by like stretching a fiber or film
12:46 < fenn> do you think that's what happened? they mentioned differences based on CVD substrate
12:48 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> who owns that domain because I want it lol
12:49 < docl> this guy https://twitter.com/fodagut/status/1686797346452156416
13:10 < docl> wrt block copolymers, maybe you can put Pb9X on a monomer, CuO on another, and react into a dimer in a way that makes the RTAPSC form for LK-99, then detach it
13:30 < fenn> or a completely different compound that has the same constrained 1-d metallic region
13:30 < fenn> if the theory is correct, anyway
13:53 < docl> my phosphoric acid should arrive saturday. I plan to use hydrogen peroxide to remove the hydrogen and use simple aqueous methods to electroplate the metals on stainless and try to convert it to oxyapatite
14:05 < muurkha> by coincidence I bought phosphoric acid today at the hardware store
14:05 < muurkha> I plan to use it to remove rust from my back door
14:07 < docl> I tried to find some over the counter but the store only had some undescribed rustoleum product, wasn't sure what was in it
14:08 < muurkha> I hadn't heard you could use hydrogen peroxide to remove the hydrogen.  what do you get then?  naked PO₄⁻⁻⁻?
14:08 < muurkha> I thought it was a strong acid and so just water removed one of the hydrogens
14:09 < muurkha> anyway I look forward to hearing how it goes
14:09 < docl> I'm not sure. going off a youtube video where the guy was making crystals from H2SO4
14:09 < muurkha> he was crystallizing H₂SO₄?
14:10 < muurkha> apparently that is a thing you can do, its melting point is given in WP as 10.31°
14:10 < docl> I'll try to dig it up. there was a metal involved of course
14:10 < muurkha> why of course?
14:12 < docl> nickel sulfate crystals https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_jZCHQAPS4
14:12 < muurkha> oh, of course you can crystallize a sulfate of just about any metal
14:12 < docl> well maybe sulfer crystals are possible, didn't really think of that
14:13 < muurkha> I thought you meant he was making crystals from H2SO4
14:13 < muurkha> since that's what you said
14:14 < docl> I was vague, sorry
14:14 < muurkha> making sulfur crystals from H₂SO₄ is not technically impossible.  I mean the sulfur is in there!  but reducing it isn't going to be easy
14:15 < muurkha> but yeah you can get sulfates by reacting H₂SO₄ with just about any metal oxide, hydroxide, carbonate, bicarbonate, chloride, fluoride, etc.
14:15 < docl> is H3PO4 different?
14:16 < muurkha> yes, because the phosphates are aggressively insoluble.  crystallizing sulfates involves removing water from them
14:16 < muurkha> there is probably nothing you can do to keep phosphates from crystallizing, except phosphates of alkali metals and ammonia
14:17 < muurkha> there are a few exceptions, like monocalcium phosphate is slightly soluble in water
14:18 < muurkha> also H₃PO₄ is much weaker; insoluble chlorides, fluorides, etc., will be unaffected in precisely the way that they are not by H₂SO₄
14:18 < muurkha> I should clarify that I've never done any of this stuff
14:18 < docl> hmm. I want a stoichiometrically valid thin layer of 9 lead, 1 copper, and 6 PO4 to try and form an oxyapatite from. the formation can be a separate step
14:18 < muurkha> (also btw there are a couple of water-insoluble sulfates, like those of lead and calcium)
14:19 < muurkha> presumably the paper details the synthesis route used by the Korean lab?
14:19 < docl> that's not something I'm ready to try
14:20 < docl> needs a high temp reaction under vacuum or (per Iris) helium/inert gas
14:20 < muurkha> aha
14:20 < docl> so I'm trying to look for a simpler route and thought I'd try dead simple first
14:25 < docl> it would be interesting if red phosphorus can be made from rust cleaner. I don't understand the need for it given apatite is a phosphate compound, unless the hydrogens are a problem
14:27 < muurkha> reducing phosphorus from phosphate is even more difficult than reducing sulfur from sulfate
14:28 < docl> can't use electrolysis?
14:44 < muurkha> apparently not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus#Production
14:46 < docl> strange. doesn't fit my crude understanding of this domain. maybe it just takes too much energy to be profitable or something
14:47 < fenn> this seems easy enough: 2 Ca3(PO4)2 + 6 SiO2 + 10 C → 6 CaSiO3 + 10 CO + P4
14:47 < muurkha> the hard part is just heating it up to a high enough temperature to decompose the PO₄
14:48 < muurkha> well, and safety
14:48 < docl> do you need heat when you can just throw current at it?
14:48 < muurkha> yes
14:48 < muurkha> apparently
14:49 < docl> the energy wells don't care if it's heat or electrons moving fast for some other reason, I would think
14:51 < muurkha> that isn't how electrolysis works
14:51 < docl> apparently they store it because it tends to hold radioactive impurities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphogypsum
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15:04 < docl> well it's a certainly a different category than wet electrochemistry if you're using an arc furnace. etymologically I'd say electrolysis still describes it, but eh people don't use words right
15:04 < docl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submerged-arc_furnace_for_phosphorus_production
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15:13 < docl> anyway it's hard to say I'd be interested in making an arc furnace for this. I'd rather just use PO4 directly to make the apatite crystals (or precursor layers to make those from). if it's not cheap wet electrochem based it's pretty much out of scope[1;5C[1;5C[1;5C[1;5C[1;5C[1;5C[1;5C[1;5CODODODODODODODODODODOD
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20:38 < fenn> i got whisper-faster running on gnusha (specifically whisper-ctranslate2) and it runs pretty fast on the base model (6x) and a little faster than realtime on the medium model
20:39 < fenn> i tried to run whisper-diarization but the massive pile of python dependencies collapsed and i barely got out alive
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20:49 < fenn> actually more like 9x on base
20:59 < fenn> example transcript https://fennetic.net/whisper/andrew_hessel/
21:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> I am now become obsolete
21:23 < fenn> it would be cool to use an LLM to correct whisper's transcription errors like that OCR thing
--- Log closed Thu Aug 03 00:00:17 2023