--- Log opened Sun Aug 06 00:00:20 2023
00:07 < kanzure> andytoshi posted some thoughts on calculating public keys from private keys by hand https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/118933/how-can-i-manually-on-paper-calculate-a-bitcoin-public-key-from-a-private-key/118939#118939
00:32 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
00:52 < kanzure> why not a paper mache/paper origami babbage machine instead of just a volvelle lookup table
00:53 < kanzure> how are you expected to do by-hand multiplications quickly by just spinning volvelles
01:01 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:04 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
01:14 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:42 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
05:46 < fenn> nmz787: sorry, went to sleep
05:58 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
05:58 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:29 < andytoshi> kanzure: somebody tried making a full computer in knex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdT1YT9AOPA 
06:47 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:20 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has left #hplusroadmap []
07:40 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:42 -!- Jay_Dugger [~jwd@47.189.8.217] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:55 < nsh> further to previous discussions on the foibles of prediction markets: https://twitter.com/floates0x/status/1687972323381727232
08:27 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
08:40 < fenn> oh sure, alchemist xiang just accidentally stumbled across some other room temperature superconductor, but the original was a mistake. right.
08:42 < fenn> if LK-99.1 works it seems pretty likely that LK-99.0 also works, and will be replicated in due time (journals are slow)
08:43 < nsh> is 'works' a binary thing?
08:44 < nsh> binary thinking is the kind of thinking that's either just a little bit better or a little bit worse than no thinking at all 
08:44 < nsh> often the latter
08:51 < fenn> in this case, yes. there's no halfway superconducting, as far as i know
08:52 < fenn> even if it were a continuous value, my heuristic would still apply
08:53 < fenn> your theosophy is clouding your thinking
08:54 < fenn> binary thinking is great. categories were a useful invention. a reduced search space, factored well, enables one to be sure of covering the most important cases
08:56 < nsh> so there's a space of characteristics which vary (to an approximation) continuously
08:56 < fenn> of course
08:56 < nsh> and the utility to humanity is a function of where materials are situated in that space
08:56 < nsh> so it's a good praxis to be thinking in that multivalued function space as habitually as one can
08:58 < fenn> why? all we care about for the sake of this prediction market thing, is the claims made in the paper. we don't care about the quench field strength or the density or the permittivity, for the purposes of scientific replication of the observations
08:58 < fenn> uh maybe they did claim something about quench field strength but i didn't understand it
08:59 < fenn> anyway there are a zillion continuous parameters that are not relevant
08:59 < nsh> we're likely talking at cross purposes :)
08:59 < nsh> apologies
09:01 < fenn> this won't be the last room temperature superconductor by far
09:02 < fenn> the first nickel batteries were kinda crap
09:02 < fenn> now they're flying airplanes around
09:04 < fenn> increased reliance on superconductors will spur more research and development on superconductors
09:20 < docl> https://meet.jit.si/Lead%20Copper%20Apatite
09:20 < docl> I'm currently plating lead over copper plated on stainless
09:23 < fenn> 9v batteries don't have very good capacity
09:52 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:14 -!- Jay_Dugger [~jwd@47.189.8.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
11:33 < fenn> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFKKFt1CQW0
11:34 < fenn> SpaceX Booster 9 Raptor Engine Static Fire Test
11:34 < fenn> it's got a lot of methane in it, more than i would have expected
11:35 < hprmbridge> kanzure> love me some static fire tests but when's the next corn building going up
11:38 < fenn> falcorn heavy?
11:39 < fenn> oh there will be an official livestream
12:06 < fenn> spacex livestream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHxKhpFUOuo
12:49 < fenn> when the champion of the canine spelling bee starts performing better than the average american school child, we'll start hearing how spelling is not really intelligence
12:52 < fenn> is there actually an argument behind gilia's tribute statement that "use of AI is strictly focused on enhancing compatibility and promoting successful conceptions, without compromising individual autonomy and dignity"
12:52 < fenn> how does choosing your child's traits compromise autonomy and dignity?
12:55 < Betawolf> depends if you choose for your child to be servile and pathetic
12:56 < fenn> all humans are servile and pathetic
12:56 < fenn> betawolf is one to talk
12:57 < Betawolf> :p
12:57 < fenn> i'm not just blustering, there is evidence that humans have self-domesticated
12:58 < Betawolf> yes, the bone density and so forth
12:58 < fenn> we may end up looking like grey aliens, the final form of catgirl
12:58 < fenn> but i'm still not seeing the loss of autonomy and dignity
12:59 < fenn> arguably sperm banking offers greater autonomy in that women are empowered to have the baby they really want, rather than whoever is available in their social context
12:59 < fenn> the "commoditization" is an issue
13:00 < fenn> should the government fund access to "excellent" sperm? (as judged by gilia project)
13:00 < fenn> can you imagine the shitstorm
13:00 < fenn> i could argue both sides but it's too tiring
13:02 < fenn> "We have four standards—Education, Proficiency, Height, and Appearance"
13:03 < fenn> uh, well, that's pretty dumb
13:03 < Betawolf> height isn't part of appearance?
13:03 < fenn> what is "proficiency"?
13:03 < Betawolf> and what is 'proficiency' if it's uncorrelated with education?
13:04 < fenn> somehow i doubt they put you on a treadmill and measure your VO2_max
13:09 < hprmbridge> Eli> I'm curious if anyone has done any research on Cosmic Microwave Background radiation and frozen sperm. I'm curious how long you could actually store sperm/eggs before they are considered non-viable.
13:10 < fenn> what does microwaves have to do with that? non-ionizing radiation is basically negligible, and it would be in a metal box inside the freezer anyway
13:11 < fenn> the biomatter itself is slightly radioactive, so that would be the ultimate limit
13:14 < fenn> you could go on a special potassium-40 restricted diet, but currently that's economically unfeasible
13:23 < fenn> chatGPT sez, potassium concentration of about 140 millimoles per liter, Potassium-40 makes up about 0.012% of all potassium atoms, so an egg cell would contain about 10^10 atoms of Potassium-40, half life is 1.25 billion years, the range of a beta particle is 4mm in water on avg, corresponding to a dose of 0.025Gy per decay, meaning a dose of 1Gy in 5 years. clearly this is not the right approach
13:23 < fenn> since decades-old cells have been successfully used to deliver healthy babies
13:26 < fenn> considering only radiation damage to the nucleus of diameter 6 micrometers, it would take 83 years to deliver 1Gy
13:27 < fenn> if the egg cells are separated more than 4mm it should be correct, but i'm still not convinced
13:34 < fenn> there was some sort of calculation error, should have been 10 million atoms of potassium-40 per cell, resulting in 83,000 years to deliver 1 Gy
13:35 < fenn> or 5000 years if the whole cell dose matters, not just DNA damage
13:37 < fenn> one could potentially store bare DNA with no radioactive elements in sight, and then do some sort of nuclear transfer operation to re-create the egg cell, but you'd have to get the donor cell from somewhere
13:48 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:49 < docl> fenn: there are diy designs for x-ray emitters using vacuum tubes and high voltage
13:49 < docl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFaikZLzsU
13:49 < docl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4rYEiMdY64
13:50 < docl> seems pretty dangerous
13:51 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:01 < fenn> you need a tungsten target and at that point you might as well just use a dental X-ray tube
14:02 < fenn> the high voltage is quite dangerous
14:04 < docl> oh, this one looks nice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqZ6PyIGJ_c
14:07 < docl> In the comments the maker says it's 20W
14:12 < fenn> i also calculated the rate to deliver 1Gy from carbon-14 decay, which turns out to be 400 billion years
14:13 < fenn> (in the egg cryopreservation example above)
14:13 < fenn> docl: the nice thing about alpha particles is they don't go through solid matter
14:14 < fenn> so besides the safety stuff, you'll only get x-ray fluorescence from the sample surface
14:14 < fenn> instead of like, the rest of the sample enclosure and shielding
14:17 < docl> hmm, is potassium a practical approach for XRD? just use pure potassium on a plate or something?
14:17 < fenn> no, potassium emits beta particles
14:18 < fenn> um. it could work i guess
14:23 < fenn> it emits a 1.3MeV particle, whereas we want a much lower energy, more like 70 keV
14:23 < fenn> tungsten's fluorescence is at 69keV so i think this means a 70kV power supply is the highest you can go realistically, but for lighter elements a lower voltage supply can work
14:24 < docl> looks like Am-241 breakdown produces about 59 keV
14:24 < docl> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americium-241
14:24 < fenn> yeah it's almost ideal
14:26 < fenn> wait, no it's 5.5MeV
14:27 < fenn> the gamma ray energy is 59keV
14:27 < docl> I didn't quite follow how that guy with the 20W oak box version was generating the x-rays
14:30 < fenn> he didn't show any of the high voltage stuff
14:31 < fenn> it's in the false ceiling of the box
14:33 < fenn> this is the thing you get by throwing money around ($15k or so) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdfHVcU8U7U
14:42 < fenn> in case anyone is wondering, we were talking about building a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_particle_X-ray_spectrometer using smoke detector pellets, PIN diodes, and long integration times
14:46 < fenn> you should be able to shield the sensor from backscattered alphas by putting the pellet near the sample and the PIN diode behind a sheet of aluminum foil
14:46 < fenn> this will give you an aluminum background in every measurement but it should be the same each time
14:48 < fenn> or maybe it's better to keep the backscattering data since it depends on nuclear mass as well... i dunno
14:51 < fenn> bleh this is not good https://physics.nist.gov/PhysRefData/XrayMassCoef/ElemTab/z13.html
14:52 < fenn> perhaps polyester film would work better
15:03 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
15:16 -!- Jay_Dugger [~jwd@47.189.8.217] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:42 < jrayhawk> https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-london-66372057
15:42 < jrayhawk> "Woman's AI bionic arm is fitted after Tube near-death experience"
16:09 < fenn> very slow and noisy
16:10 < fenn> control is the hard part. they don't really show her actually doing anything with it
16:12 < jrayhawk> baby steps
16:13 < fenn> i don't think this is new tech. the looped-back innervation into the stump and picking up myoelectric signals thing has been around for at least a decade
16:14 < fenn> i'm just surprised that in 2023 a prosthetic arm is making robot noises
16:57 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:05 < jrayhawk> i am tempted to join the ukrainian war effort so we can get some damned autonomy for biology research again
18:06 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
18:06 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:08 < L29Ah> jrayhawk: how is ukrainian war effort related to biology research autonomy?
18:09 < jrayhawk> it was, to my knowledge, the only place in the world where you could throw money at human biology research and it would actually happen
18:10 < jrayhawk> everywhere else is too laden with corruption, bureaucracy, vetocracy, and incompetence
18:11 < jrayhawk> bio-freedom was actually an explicit goal laid out by arestovich
18:11 < L29Ah> was?
18:11 < jrayhawk> well, everything has been sublimated to the war effort, so god only knows now
18:12 < L29Ah> my ukrainian frens won't agree with this statement
18:12 < jrayhawk> arestovich got kicked out of the halls of power for the time being
18:13 < L29Ah> and the statement about the unique place of ukraine is questionable as well, but i haven't tried funding human biology research anywhere so i have no idea, and have no idea where i could get such information otherwise
18:13 < L29Ah> i thought research requires labs, not halls of power
18:16 < jrayhawk> labs are logistical nodes that are highly legible to power
18:18 < jrayhawk> those who act otherwise live very uncomfortable lives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Jiankui
18:19 < L29Ah> was anyone punished in .ua recently, or was there any relevant law passed or smth?
18:20 < L29Ah> the only "scien" entry at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleksii_Arestovych is "He also studied theology at the Superior Institute of Religious Sciences of St. Thomas Aquinas."
18:39 < jrayhawk> "Taras Shevchenko National University of Kyiv - Faculty of biology"
18:39 < jrayhawk> although his strength is in political philosophy
19:21 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
19:56 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:00 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
--- Log closed Mon Aug 07 00:00:21 2023