--- Log opened Mon Aug 07 00:00:21 2023
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02:08 < hprmbridge> Eli> My apologies, I didn't realize CMB just referred to the microwave spectrum. But, in retrospect, I should have. I should have meant cosmic radiation. When there are solar events, the FAA will notify the pilots so they have an option to fly lower and avoid the radiation.
02:09 < hprmbridge> Eli> Obviously, it's not a lot if you are on the ground, but the effect will be cumulative. That's what makes me wonder if the embryos that have been in cold storage since the early 90's are sub-optimal. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1138036153455476777/image.png
02:12 < hprmbridge> Eli> EPA has a nice little calculator: https://www.epa.gov/radiation/calculate-your-radiation-dose
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05:13 < L29Ah> .t https://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~kovar/hall.html
05:18 < Betawolf> great writeup
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07:44 < hprmbridge> jason.crawford> Jack Devanney has a new paper out, Replacing LNT with SNT. “The Linear No Threshold model of radiation harm… must be replaced. This paper suggests a  Sigmoid No Threshold model as the replacement, and applies that model to both the Fukushima and Chernobyl releases” https://gordianknotbook.com/download/replacing-lnt-with-snt/
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10:41 < fenn> i don't see why "is consistent with the no perfectly safe dose doctrine" is something to be desired in a theory
10:41 < fenn> from what i understand, small doses of radiation are beneficial
10:41 < fenn> we have a long way to go
10:43 < L29Ah> beneficial for what?
10:44 < L29Ah> it's something to be desired because of the observed interaction of ionizing radiation with genetic information carriers
10:45 < L29Ah> in the long run it will mess up your code, and your cell won't be able to function
10:46 < fenn> beneficial for overall health
10:46 < L29Ah> maybe if you don't plan living for long
10:47 < L29Ah> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
10:51 < fenn> i don't understand why this is so hard to understand. small doses of caffeine are beneficial, large doses will kill you
10:52 < fenn> radiation isn't very special in this regard
10:52 < fenn> focus sunlight with a magnifying glass and it will burn you
10:53 < fenn> spend 1 minute a day in the sun for a year and you'll have no ill effects. spend 365 minutes in the sun for one day and you'll have a bad day
10:53  * L29Ah applies a small dose of Pb2+ to fenn
10:53 < superkuh> Ionizing radiation is always bad. It's so bad that lifeforms actually survive a tiny bit better when their systems to mitigate ionizing radiation damage are primed. But if we could put a human in a completely non-ionizing environment small amounts would be bad.
10:54 < fenn> metabolism generates oxidative radicals all on its own, and response to ionizing radiation helps clean them up
11:01 < fenn> what i don't like about the "dose" paradigm is that it ignores concentrated sources like dust particles lodged in a lung
11:01 < fenn> it's a tiny dose but also it affects a tiny region, so the dose for the cells in that region is way higher than you'd expect by naively averaging over the whole body
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11:03 < fenn> with heavy nuclei like cosmic rays you get some cells completely shredded, but the dose is tiny still
11:03 < L29Ah> it makes more sense to tune these responses than to induce DNA breaks to stimulate melanogenesis and other cute things that try to save you from the impending doom of the cellular machinery breaking into crosslinked soup under indiscriminate ionization
11:04 < fenn> don't let perfect be the enemy of good
11:05  * L29Ah inserts metformin
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11:14 < fenn> dose is just an inappropriate dimensionality reduction
11:14 < fenn> it's like only considering calories in a diet
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11:21 < fenn> wow this is crazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Stevens#Experiment_on_Stevens
11:23 < fenn> could stevens have been accidentally cured of cancer by the plutonium injection?
11:52 < L29Ah> everything speaks sus
11:53  * L29Ah dismisses this evidence as an artifact of poor record keeping, maybe coupled with inhumane experimentation in USA at that time that was later covered up
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12:16 < fenn> it's just confusing that they would pick a terminally ill patient for a secret experiment, and then he turns out to not be terminally ill after all
12:16 < fenn> and radiation therapy is a thing in cancer treatment
12:17 < L29Ah> except it's not generalized
12:17 < fenn> anyway, we'll never get the facts in this case as the evidence has been burned
12:17 < L29Ah> even the ashes are expunged
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13:39 < hprmbridge> Eli> There are a number of people using radioactive treatment as a therapy for things like autoimmune conditions, including in America. I don't really understand it. If it's real, maybe a hypothesis could be that the radiation is simply dampening the immune system? I dunno. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/radon-treatment-mine-radiation-
13:39 < hprmbridge> Eli> covid/2021/08/06/2bcf9ebc-f08f-11eb-81d2-ffae0f931b8f_story.html
13:39 < docl> looking at homemade xray tubes has me just about wanting to get into borosilicate glassblowing
13:43 < fenn> yes i think the immune system is just being killed. chlorine bleach is also used for eczema and may be a similar mechanism, just killing immune cells in the area
13:48 < nsh> fenn, stevens never had cancer
13:49 < nsh> he had a gastic ulcer and was misdiagnosed
13:49 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I've got an autoimmune condition (it's a fucking pain) and I don't think i'mma blast myself with radiation to fix it lol
13:49 < nsh> ah, you caught up
13:50 < nsh> i wouldn't call it confused, rather tragic
13:50 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I'm looking forward to some of the new biotech stuff atm
13:53 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah, the issue is many people just get desperate from how much suffering they have and just will try anything even with a low prob of success
13:55 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> When I thought what I had was chrons I really considered DIYing TAK-101
13:57 < hprmbridge> Eli> yeah, im not interested in being the lab rat for that type of treatment.
13:57 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> these are some interesting papers on TAK-101 and similar approaches: https://www.darmzentrum-bern.ch/fileadmin/darmzentrum/Education/Journal_Club/2021/JC_21-05-12_-_TAK-101_Nanoparticles_Induce_Gluten-Specific_Tolerance_in_Celiac_disease.pdf
13:57 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19635921/
13:58 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> whoopse: Celiac not Chrons
13:58 < hprmbridge> Eli> have you seen the underground helminth therapy trade? People are getting them from mexico: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Helminthic_therapy
13:59 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah I looked at that, seems promising but I don't really fancy getting that done atm
13:59 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> low pathogenicity is a plus tho
14:00 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> There was a japanese lab that had a recent breakthrough with UC (what I have)
14:01 < hprmbridge> Eli> continue ...
14:01 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Looking for it
14:01 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> basically the jist is that 99% of sufferers have common anitbodies iirc which aren't present in most of the general population
14:03 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> these antibodies screw with the lining of the intestines causing the microbiome to interact where it shouldn't and cause the immune system to respond and cause inflammation
14:06 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> But yeah there's a bunch of good research going on which should help me, i've only had it for a year or so and it completely tanked my productivity
14:08 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> only recently got it confirmed and medicated, the only stuff so far that's managed to keep my symptoms completely gone are corticosteroids which you can't be on long term and mesalazine just keeps stuff at a very mild severity
14:17 < fenn> mesalazine?
14:18 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesalazine
14:18 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> i'm on oral mesalazine to keep inflammation down, it appears to work missing a dose makes me useless for a day ro so
14:18 < fenn> oh, uh, i was recommending it
14:19  * fenn can't read
14:19 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Ah yeah, it's good but it doesn't put me in remission completely i'm hovering at a calprotectin of about 130 or something which is better than my previous score or 3390
14:19 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> (very angry immune system)
14:19 < fenn> try eliminating milk
14:20 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> tried it, it tried every dietry trick going and they did nothing for about 3 months I was basically on a diet of rice and chicken
14:21 < fenn> welp i guess i'd just recommend keeping a very detailed food journal
14:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> cut all the nice things like gluten, caffine, dairy, it helped slightly but not to much. gluten was the only thing with a real effect. I did keep one for the first 9 or so months when it was undiagnosed
14:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> It's a pain but mesal is keeping me functional these days
14:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I also gotta get genetic testing done soon becasue my dad recently got diagnosed with hemaphilia type C, my genetics is fucked up
14:23 < fenn> my mom has UC so i'm dreadfully interested
14:23 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah, understandable I kinda wish it was Celiac atleast theres a potentially DIYable cure for that
14:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> There's some talk about putting me on biologics which are really interesting
14:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> they've got some oral ones these days iirc
14:26 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Other interesting thing is *when* my UC was triggered, it started to develop just after I recovered from a bout of COVID
14:28 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> There's starting to be some research on post-COVID autoimmune diseases
14:28 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41584-023-00964-y
14:29 < fenn> i've had CFS since before it was cool
14:29 < fenn> or whatever they're calling it these days
14:29 < fenn> hopefully the research has general applications
14:30 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah, I'm quite interested in the approaches based on immune system reprogramming
14:31 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> They've got a bunch of generalisable use cases
14:35 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I'll have to search it up but a while ago I read about some ideas on using the immune system in living animals to facilitate global in vivo genetic modification
14:37 < fenn> well usually the immune system kills mutant cells, not delivering viruses
14:38 < fenn> can you provide a gist for the idea?
14:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://twitter.com/mechadense/status/1688580634132840448
14:39 < fenn> am i going to have to build my own IRC bot
14:40 < fenn> (the answer is yes, for unrelated reasons)
14:40 < fenn> volumes are so counterintuitive
14:42 < fenn> if we ever run out of carbon in the atmosphere, we can just burn more coal
14:42 < fenn> and if that fails, import it from venus, but by that point you've probably got a megastructure capable enclosing the planet
14:44 < fenn> https://fennetic.net/sd/gem_gum.jpg
15:01 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Well the first point is that you'd need to sort out the immune system anyways such that it doesn't kill modified cells or fuck with your chosen vector, which is already well researched but there was a footnote I read which was saying a future direction could be to modify the mechanism that handles mutant cells to find unmodified cells and modify them.
15:02 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Something akin to current work on reprogramming tcells but further along that road
15:02 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Tbh shit like that's far off because DNA isn't a good programming language and writing something analogous to a compiler would likely be close to AGI
16:36 < jrayhawk> alonzoc: covid uses up immense amounts of myeloid differentiation factors A and D, resulting in the normal sequence of "myeloid suppression-dominant innate response -> myeloid-dominant adaptive response" failing, so you wind up with "moderate innate -> failed poor specificity adaptive -> defcon 5 innate with a lot of poor specificity adaptive baggage"
16:44 < jrayhawk> severe covid presents with D deficiency and MDSCs, but A is more poorly studied. BCO1 and BCMO1 polymorphisms are common and worth paying attention to if you've done sequencing.
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20:13 < L29Ah> .t https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nagpur/made-in-india-artificial-heart-to-be-8-times-cheaper-than-imported-one/articleshow/94440316.cms
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 08 00:00:22 2023