--- Log opened Tue Sep 12 00:00:20 2023
01:27 < fenn> unfortunately "technosignatures" are potentially even more varied and ambiguous than biosignature
02:13 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:17 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
02:23 -!- Malvolio [~Malvolio@idlerpg/player/Malvolio] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:46 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:12 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has left #hplusroadmap []
04:37 -!- gptpaste [~x@yoke.ch0wn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
04:49 < kanzure> hmph
04:49 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:49 < kanzure> well we have enough trouble just determining psychosignals 
04:50 -!- cc0 [~cc0@2a01:4f9:c010:cf0b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
04:53 -!- cc0 [~cc0@2a01:4f9:c010:cf0b::2] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:05 -!- gptpaste [~x@yoke.ch0wn.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:10 < fenn> wow how is henry kissinger still alive and relevant
05:11 < fenn> .t https://nitter.net/mezaoptimizer/status/1698775296269336899#m
05:11 < EmmyNoether> Sorry, t took too long
05:11 < fenn> he's literally 100 years old
05:14 < fenn> (eric schmidt stealing AI memes for his book)
05:15 < nsh> cursed by god to roam the world forever in search for his soul
05:22 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:25 < fenn> first they came for the ones with polymathic abilities, and nobody said anything, and i died
05:26 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
05:29 < fenn> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/08/henry-kissinger-the-metamorphosis-ai/592771/
07:21 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
07:26 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:03 -!- hprmbridge [~hprmbridg@bryan.fairlystable.org] has quit [Server closed connection]
08:04 -!- hprmbridge [~hprmbridg@bryan.fairlystable.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:22 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:22 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:53 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
09:53 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:16 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has quit [Server closed connection]
11:17 -!- berndj [~berndj@197.189.254.139] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:18 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
11:26 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:36 < docl> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSC06P9A5W4
11:36 < EmmyNoether> Barely Contained Rage: An Open Letter to Danaher and Cepheid - YouTube
11:41 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:42 < docl> I wonder what the actual cost floor for these cartridges is. 10 cent worth of plastic?
11:45 < docl> the absence of black market cartridges is weird. why do black markets only form around bad stuff
11:45 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
11:45 < L29Ah> do you dare calling LSD bad!?
11:46 < docl> useless crap and bad stuff I mean
11:46 < L29Ah> do you dare calling bitcoin useless and bad!?
11:46 < docl> and scammable stuff
11:46 < L29Ah> everything is scammable
11:47 < L29Ah> i didn't watch your video ofc
11:50 < docl> how many btc would it cost to flood the international market with GeneXpert cartridges to test for antibiotic resistant TB I wonder
11:51 < docl> this article covers the gist https://www.goodgoodgood.co/articles/john-green-danaher-tuberculosis
11:51 < docl> .title
11:51 < EmmyNoether> John Green & Grassroots Activists Pressure Danaher To Drop Price of Tuberculosis Test
11:52 < L29Ah> oh, intellectual property stuff again
11:54 < L29Ah> i wonder if there are states that openly defy USAnian IP, except North Korea and sometimes Russia
11:54 < docl> huh, this article is saying it's around $8.63. plastic + reagents. seems sky high to me. https://msfaccess.org/sites/default/files/2019-12/2018%20COGS%20analysis%20of%20Xpert%20MTB_RIF%20Ultra%20cartridges.pdf
11:59 < docl> ok they're also including labor + expensive machine + IP licensing costs. seems to be a conservative upper bound kind of thing
12:00 < muurkha> L29Ah: patents only apply inside a particular country, so every other state openly defies USAnian IP in that sense
12:01 < muurkha> the PCT covers a lot of countries but not nearly as many as the Berne Convention
12:01 < muurkha> and there isn't an equivalent of the PCT or Berne Convention for mask works, sui generis database rights [which don't exist in the US], etc.
12:02 < muurkha> even within the PCT there's substantial liberty to do things like India's low-cost generics
12:02 < muurkha> not sure about trademarks
12:03 < jrayhawk> 10 dollar diagnostic testing is already on the low end in the FDA regime
12:05 < L29Ah> docl: one should also account for the opportunity cost and the chances of getting inflated costs or negative RoI due to unaccounted difficulties, demand and competition
12:05  * L29Ah hides
12:06 < L29Ah> i wonder why do they do the cartridge thing at all instead of the usual bottles-and-pumps contraption
12:07 < jrayhawk> so it can be used without substantial training
12:19 < fenn> why don't we have phage therapy still?
12:19 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:55 < L29Ah> .ru seems to have some: https://grls.rosminzdrav.ru/GRLS.aspx?RegNumber=&MnnR=бактериофаг&lf=&TradeNmR=&OwnerName=&MnfOrg=&MnfOrgCountry=&isfs=0&regtype=1%2c6&pageSize=10&order=Registered&orderType=desc&pageNum=1
13:00 < fenn> you'd think tuberculosis would be the perfect application for phage therapy
13:05 < L29Ah> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5850371/
13:09 < fenn> "The greatest hurdle to the introduction of phage therapy in Western medicine is the lack of an appropriate legal and regulatory framework."
13:09 < fenn> what if we just... did stuff
13:10 < jrayhawk> unless you're just... doing stuff to yourself, you just... go to jail.
13:12 < fenn> i'm not practicing medicine, i'm just playing with buckets of goop
13:14 < docl> are there meaningful numbers of people getting caught just doing stuff and going to jail, or is this the counterfactual kind of jail
13:18 < L29Ah> 22:12:38]<fenn> i'm not practicing medicine, i'm just playing with buckets of goop
13:18 < L29Ah> do you plan selling your goop or the services of goop applications?
13:18 < docl> people just doing e.g. stealing credit card numbers do go to jail, running a ponzi bitcoin scheme landed SBF in jail, methamphetamine producers go to jail when caught, but where's the jailed martyrs to good causes like cheap TB cartridges or lisdexamphetamine? is chaotic good just not a thing for the most part
13:19 < L29Ah> docl: you tell us, i have no clue where to obtain statistics for the USA crimes
13:20 < L29Ah> pretty sure the things you mention are much easier to perform and more profitable, at least in short term, than medical practice w/o license
13:22 < docl> meth labs are selling medication, it's just a crap med that causes and facilitates addiction
13:22 < jrayhawk> there are more legible and important hills for martyrs to die on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Jiankui
13:23 < L29Ah> so? certainly there are also amphetamine labs (albeit amphetamine is less marketable in USA since one can just ask for a prescription for it)
13:23 < docl> something about being unlawful makes people tend towards also evil in the typical case
13:25 < L29Ah> ethanol is even a crappier med that causes and facilitates addiction, yet alcoholic beverages are legal, widely available and a major part of economy
13:26 < jrayhawk> that's not the relevant example; the GRAS unregulated equivalent of emphetamines is phenylethylamine, which is both a cheaper TAAR1 agonist than amphetamines and much harder to therapeutically dose
13:27 < L29Ah> using phenylethylamine needs taking some royally annoying enzyme inhibitor IIRC
13:27 < jrayhawk> that's only if you want it to last for a long time
13:28 < L29Ah> more than a minute
13:28 < jrayhawk> no, typical elimination half-life is more like 20 minutes
13:28 < L29Ah> huh? gotta check it out someday then!
13:28 < jrayhawk> it varies based on genetics and circumstance, however
13:29 < L29Ah> still not very usable as a stimulant/nootripic/ADHD medicine
13:30 < jrayhawk> there's probably ways of learning how the variance in MAO activity can be predicted and continuously dosing it to match, but it'd certainly be a bigger pain in the butt
13:30 < jrayhawk> jackasses wanting to get high don't care about any of that stuff, of course
13:31 < L29Ah> so can we just buy phenylalanine and decarboxylize it? hmmm
13:31  * L29Ah is a jackass and wants to get high
13:31 < jrayhawk> yes, you can literally buy it by the kilogram straight off of amazon
13:33 < L29Ah> cool! i got used to .ru where phenylethylamine itself is illegal
13:33 < jrayhawk> banning it would practically involve banning chocolate, and the FDA is not willing to go to war with white women.
13:34 < hprmbridge> yashgaroth> re earlier discussion, tuberculosis hides inside the host patient's cells so phages wouldn't be able to reach it
13:44 < jrayhawk> L29Ah: keep in mind that, while moderate doses just cause homeostatically renormalized receptor expression that generate a low proportionate to the high, poorly-regulated doses can cause more permanent damage via toxic effects of supraphysiologic dopamine levels
13:45 < jrayhawk> very useful to keep in mind u-shaped dose-response curves and start low (which phenylethylamine makes difficult)
13:50 < L29Ah> btw i recall having latent tuberculosis and i'm still wondering if it makes much sense to obtain and endure 9 months of isoniazid if the chance of it ever going active is only 10%
13:58 < jrayhawk> and also, along with using up MAO directly, TAAR1 also inhibits MAO, which can have other knock-on effects at supraphysiologic doses (such as tyramine getting out of hand if you eat fermented foods)
14:40 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://www.semianalysis.com/p/china-ai-and-semiconductors-rise
15:45 < fenn> scary stuff
15:47 < L29Ah> https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9d9f0127-c6cc-498e-a890-140864aee556_1600x727.png
17:59 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:02 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
18:03 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:30 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20:20 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:35 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@user/andytoshi] has quit [Server closed connection]
20:35 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@user/andytoshi] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:40 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:52 -!- codaraxis [~codaraxis@user/codaraxis] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:15 -!- fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] has quit [Server closed connection]
23:14 -!- mrdata [~mrdata@user/mrdata] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
--- Log closed Wed Sep 13 00:00:21 2023