--- Log opened Tue Sep 19 00:00:27 2023
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02:56 < hprmbridge> Eli> couldnt access with any of my institutions. 😦
03:11 < hprmbridge> Eli> Very interesting papers. I'm guessing you already saw the papers on Epstein Barre being a prerequisite for most MS cases? I did a presentation on it for school and I saw that they are working on a MRNA vaccine to treat MS. With the. discovery of EB resulting in MS, there will be major pressure to develop a vaccine for EB to prevent MS in the first place. There are a number of vaccines in the
03:11 < hprmbridge> Eli> pipeline now.
03:17 < nsh> is there any way short of headless browser puppeteering to proxy websockets and be able to inject into them (e.g. from a command line)?
03:25 < kanzure> nsh: the project known as "mitmproxy"
03:26 < nsh> ah nice, didn't know mitmproxy supported websockets
03:26 < nsh> .gpt4 can you give an example of using mitmproxy to insert data into websocket connections?
03:27 < gptpaste> ​Sure, here's an example of how you can use mitmproxy to insert data into WebSocket connections. This script will add a custom message to every WebSocket message sent from the client.Firstly, you need to create a Python script (let's call it `websocket_modify.py`):```pythonfrom mitmproxy import ctxclass WebSocketModify:    def __init__(self):        self.num = 0    - https://bin.gy/hipslampar
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03:57 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/09/china-makes-huge-chip-breakthrough-7-nanometers-with-euv-lithography-machines.html
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04:37 < kanzure> hacker news attempts to understand neuroanatomy https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37555118
04:43 < nsh> .t
04:43 < EmmyNoether> The brain is not an onion with a tiny reptile inside (2020) | Hacker News
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05:49 < L29Ah> 04:40:12]<sphertext_> L29Ah even the reagent grade?
05:49 < L29Ah> i have no idea, i'm not sure if it's even possible to purify proteins well at scale these days; i'm pretty sure it's not synthetic
06:06 < nsh> what does purifying a protein mean?
06:08 < kanzure> nsh: purifying a protein refers to filtering out objects that are not protein from a sample
06:08 < kanzure> including other proteins that are not the protein you want.
06:08 < nsh> oh so isolating :)
06:09 < nsh> (in fairness this is what purifying means in most other contexts)
06:09 < nsh> (but you're actually acting upon something containing the desired isolate)
06:09 < nsh> (so you purify an ore, or a sample)
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07:59 < kanzure> https://www.researchgate.net/press-newsroom/acs-elsevier-and-researchgate-resolve-litigation-with-solution-to-support-researchers
07:59 < kanzure> "At the point of upload, the ResearchGate platform will check rights information for ACS and Elsevier published content. ResearchGate will then immediately determine how the content can be shared on its site. Authors can store their copyrighted ACS and Elsevier published Version of Record articles privately in their ResearchGate profiles and share them privately when requested by other users. ...
07:59 < kanzure> ...The platform also identifies articles that may be shared publicly."
09:25 < yashgaroth> sphertext_, have you considered ebay.co.uk/itm/154023765773 ? Same activity as the carolina stuff (1:3000)
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10:25 < muurkha> Shit, well, that's unfortunate, kanzure 
10:27 < nsh> death2elsevier
11:03 < kanzure> this seems like a better outcome than researchgate blowing up- although on the other hand i would like researchgate and academia.edu to stop spamming me by email
11:10 < muurkha> yes
11:10 < muurkha> academia.edu is a different level of shitshow tho
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13:02 < kanzure> https://unchained.com/blog/law-of-hash-horizons/
13:18 < hprmbridge> soul_syrup> lol
13:22 < L29Ah> jaja
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13:31 < fenn> "20% of world energy production will go to SHA256 hashing" is a bad outcome
13:32 < fenn> that's too much
13:34 < muurkha> why?  99.8% of it is currently going to emitting infrared into space
13:35 < fenn> 99.999% of the universe is on fire
13:36 < fenn> "energy production" refers to tamed, commoditized, ready to use energy such as electricity
13:36 < fenn> that energy could have been used on something useful instead
13:36 < fenn> more than the amount required to secure the blockchain is just wasted energy
13:37 < fenn> it would only make sense in a scenario where earth is the financial center of a solar system wide economy
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13:42 < L29Ah> bitcoin is financed by the lack of trust
13:42 < muurkha> the energy that hasn't been tamed and commoditized could also have been used on something useful instead
13:42 < L29Ah> if we get some more trust, we'll redirect resources to cheaper solutions
13:43 < fenn> actually it's financed by impatience. transaction fees go up because people want to cut in line
13:44 < L29Ah> bitcoin's line can be infinitely long
13:44 < fenn> and wallets have defaults that sorta make sense when only one person does it, but not when everyone does it, like setting your fee to the median fee plus 10%
13:45  * L29Ah 's favorite fee is 1.1sat/vB
13:45 < muurkha> even if recent blocks weren't full?
13:45 < fenn> (disclaimer: i don't know what the actual formula is, this is just an example)
13:45 < fenn> blocks are always full because stupid shit like icons of ape profile pics
13:46 < L29Ah> or because of legit business
13:46 < L29Ah> how do you tell?
13:46 < L29Ah> blockchain just sucks at scale
13:46 < fenn> fair point
13:56 < fenn> isn't the entire set of points in that article obviated by a solar system wide blockchain inter-planetary settlement system with a longer block interval?
13:57 < fenn> and sidechains
13:59 < fenn> one could simply ignore a "hash bomb"
14:00 < muurkha> I stopped reading it partway through so I don't know
14:00 < muurkha> what's a hash bomb?
14:00 < fenn> there are more insidious strategies exploiting human nature than simply zeroing all the blocks in the blockchain history
14:00 < fenn> "A hash bomb is a sequence of empty blocks of tremendous weight mined directly on the genesis block of some blockchain to be destroyed."
14:02 < muurkha> well, as with "What if they had a war and nobody came?", the issue is coordination problems
14:02 < muurkha> you might have to predict whether other people would agree to ignore the spurious alternate history
14:03 < fenn> well gee what do you think
14:03 < fenn> do you want your life savings or $0? is tough decision
14:03 < muurkha> heh, yes, you'd probably want a slightly different strategy
14:03 < muurkha> which I guess is what you're saying
14:03 < fenn> yes
14:09 < fenn> under a terran hegemony censoring rebel transactions, as interplanetary settlement transactions pile up, a mega-block constructed by a spacer alliance containing extra reward for a broad array of mining pools will incentivize those pools to keep working on the block (presumably mined by someone else) in defiance of the censorship
14:11 < fenn> this is sort of like buying hashrate
14:13 < muurkha> pile up in the mempool?
14:14 < fenn> for a solar system wide side chain we'll need a different data structure
14:15 < kanzure> https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2022/05/04/bitcoin-trailblazer-raises-capital-to-create-interplanetary-cryptocurrency/?sh=3f9bdb015026
14:16 < muurkha> what do you mean by "pile up"?
14:17 < kanzure> i think there are a few different issues being discussed: cross-planet financial transactions and trade, and then censorship resistance across multiple planets or disallowing a single planet from controlling the only ledger
14:17 < kanzure> why wouldn't correspondence banking be good enough? nostro and vostro accounts at each planet.
14:17 < fenn> people are wanting to send money to/from earth but can't, due to censorship either at the protocol level or through coercion of mining pools
14:17 < kanzure> .wik correspondent account
14:18 < EmmyNoether> "A correspondent account is an account (often called a nostro or vostro account) established by a banking institution to receive deposits from, make payments on behalf of, or handle other financial transactions for another financial institution." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correspondent_account
14:18 < kanzure> i guess payment censorship is a good topic but before we get there how about just ensuring private multiply redundant internet connectivity through something other than a global surveillance apparatus
14:19 < fenn> correspondence banking is even more legible and vulnerable to sanctions/censorship
14:20 < kanzure> maybe, i guess it's even worse than that because your payments on the other end can be filtered and it might be hard for you to figure that out ("well the other ones were fine")
14:20 < fenn> it's kinda hard to censor the night sky
14:21 < fenn> possible i guess
14:21 < muurkha> fenn: a thing I've observed here in Argentina is Venezuelans sending money to their families with Zelle
14:22 < muurkha> which is kind of funny since Zelle doesn't operate in either Argentina or especially Venezuela, which is still subject to heavy US sanctions
14:22 < fenn> how does it work then?
14:23 < muurkha> Venezuelan immigrant earns Argentine pesos in Argentine economy, and gives them to a, we could say, hawaladar in exchange for getting the money to their family in Venezuela
14:23 < fenn> and how is that "with zelle"?
14:23 < muurkha> who is here in Argentina
14:23 < muurkha> the hawaladar initiates a Zelle transfer from their US bank account to the US bank account of another hawaladar who is not here in Argentina
14:24 < muurkha> but rather in Venezuela
14:24 < muurkha> the other hawaladar in Venezuela, having received dollars in their US bank account, delivers bolivares to the recipient
14:25 < fenn> how does the hawaladar get bolivares to rectify the trade imbalance?
14:25 < muurkha> I don't know, but I imagine they buy them with dollar bills
14:26 < fenn> but venezuela is subject to heavy US sanctions
14:26 < muurkha> which they obtained from someone who had recently been overseas, in exchange for a Zelle transfer
14:26 < fenn> are people carrying around huge quantities of cash on airplanes?
14:26 < muurkha> yes
14:27 < muurkha> also ferryboats
14:27 < muurkha> yes, I'm not sure what you have to do (if anything) if you're physically in Venezuela to avoid having your US bank account closed or losing access to it
14:27 < fenn> have a trusted partner in the US
14:28 < muurkha> that would surely work; a VPN might too
14:28 < muurkha> also I'm pretty sure people carry dollars across the Venezuela-Colombia border
14:28 < fenn> i think you need more than just an internet connection to open a US bank account
14:28 < muurkha> yes, I assume people open them in Miami
14:28 < muurkha> but I don't actually know
14:29 < fenn> this all sounds very stressful and violence inducing
14:29 < muurkha> here in Argentina typically people smuggle their dollar bills across the river to Uruguay
14:29 < muurkha> yes, banking is generally very stressful and violence inducing
14:30 < fenn> i think it's usually supposed to reduce violence
14:30 < muurkha> maybe it's better to think of it as confining the violence
14:30 < muurkha> I remember the first time I went to a bank in Brazil; a young woman who worked there had agreed to host me and a couple of friends while we were visiting her town
14:31 < muurkha> we arrived shortly before the bank branch closed and sat down outside the bank to wait for her to get off work
14:31 < muurkha> an armored car drove up and parked
14:31 < muurkha> the driver got out, carrying a shotgun and two or three pistols strapped to his legs, and went to stand behind the armored car
14:32 < muurkha> another guard got out, carrying another shotgun and another couple of pistols, and went to stand in front of the armored car
14:32 < muurkha> a third guard got out, with just three or four pistols strapped to different parts of his body (that I could see), and fastwalked past us into the bank
14:33 < muurkha> about 20 seconds later he fastwalked back out of the bank, tossed a huge bag of cash into the back of the armored car, and got back into the passenger compartment
14:33 < muurkha> followed by the other two guards, who immediately drove off
14:33 < fenn> and they all lived happily ever after
14:34 < muurkha> shortly after our host came out of the bank branch.  They had just delivered their cash to the armored car because nightfall was approaching
14:34 < muurkha> s/r o/r, o/
14:35 < muurkha> by not leaving the cash in the bank branch overnight, they reduced the opportunities for it to be stolen
14:36 < fenn> and the cost to defend it, per dollar defended
14:37 < muurkha> maybe, but I suspect that in practice it's more like how RAID reduces data loss
14:37 < muurkha> which is that most of the time it doesn't
14:37 < muurkha> it just makes it less predictable
14:37 < fenn> native americans used to leave acorns in the forest instead of harvesting them. when bullies came by to steal their lunch, the only thing to do was to go laboriously harvest acorns. but there are acorns everywhere
14:38 < muurkha> yes.  that's the opposite strategy
14:39 < muurkha> you can't keep bullies from stealing the acorns in the forest
14:39 < muurkha> but they can't steal many
14:39 < Betawolf> that strategy seems to be 'own nothing'
14:39 < fenn> own no liquid assets, at least
14:39 < muurkha> "judgment proof"
14:40 < muurkha> it's not just "own nothing"; it's "diversify" or "decentralize"
14:41 < Betawolf> it's not diverse, it's all acorns
14:41 < Betawolf> and yes, owning nothing does protect you against people taking things from you
14:41 < muurkha> it's acorns in diverse places
14:42 < sphertext_> yashgaroth thanks for the link, yeah i was aware of those listings, but wasn't sure about ordering an enzyme from india.. because at that point, why not alibaba
14:42 < muurkha> the Zomia thesis claims that root vegetables have a similar virtue of being illegible to tax collectors; I don't know if this is true
14:43 < yashgaroth> I'd bet that's where carolina gets their pepsin tbh
14:44 < fenn> yashgaroth: how did you find that? what was your search strategy?
14:45 < yashgaroth> ebay's great for random reagents and lab equipment, figured UK ebay since sphertext_ is there
14:45 < yashgaroth> any kind of grey market stuff tbh, plenty of insane lasers sold there too
14:45 < fenn> well i looked on ebay yesterday and didn't see anything like this
14:46 < fenn> ok "pepsin powder" is the magic keyword phrase
14:46 < yashgaroth> yea just searching 'pepsin powder' filters out most of the betaine'd supplements
14:47 < sphertext_> yashgaroth no, they actually offer lab grade and reagent grade pepsin 
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14:47 < sphertext_> the india listing doesn't mention grade, tho it appears to be marketed as a supplement 
14:47 < sphertext_> actually the keyword i used was "pepsin -betaine" 
14:48 < sphertext_> because pepsin alone returns mostly digestive supplements containing the betaine HCl combination 
14:48 < sphertext_> so minus that, and you get mostly pepsin powder 
14:49 < fenn> i get a bunch of random vintage knick-knacks and okra powder 
14:49 < sphertext_> add -okra too 
14:49 < sphertext_> im a fan of exclusion searches tbh
14:49 < yashgaroth> the potency is measured in enzyme activity, if indian powder and carolina are both the same (1:3000) then I wouldn't worry about arbitrary 'reagent grade' designations
14:50 < sphertext_> it's a practical way to deal with spam for popular keyword, by excluding a spam-specific antigen 
14:50 < yashgaroth> otherwise they'll both just have whatever lyo sugars are in there. Depends what you need it for tho
14:51 < sphertext_> well i need to do something very irresponsible with it 
14:52 < muurkha> oh?
14:52 < muurkha> that sounds interesting
14:54 < sphertext_> it's not really. i suspect i have a deficiency in endogenous proteolytic enzymes 
14:55 < sphertext_> or at least, that's how i initially got interested in sourcing pepsin. then it became more of a stubborn fixation once i discovered how difficult it actually is 
14:56 < sphertext_> gained a lot of transferable experience since 
15:06 < muurkha> oh interesting!  you want to eat it so you can digest better?
15:07 < sphertext_> yeah that's the plan. problem with most "enzyme supplements" on the market is that they are actually denaturated in acidic pH and/or they just get hydrolised by your endogenous pepsin first. sooo.. totally worthless 
15:08 < sphertext_> pepsin is actually the only one that makes sense 
15:08 < jrayhawk> a complete disregard for bioavailability and effectiveness is generalizable to the supplement industry in general
15:10 < sphertext_> there is also the pancreatin blend, but, again unless it is actually encapsulated in a enteric coating, so it can make it to the intestine, then it's also worthless. there is currently only 1 product with enteric coated pancreatin on the uk market: a weaker version of an Rx, manufactured by Creon 
15:11 < sphertext_> however, pancreatin includes lipases and amylases. in fact, it is primarily geared for lypases. the proteolytic activity of the pancreatin blend is also harder to quantify compared to pepsin
15:12 < sphertext_> jrayhawk it is, the supplement industry is 99% a complete waste of time. the cosmetics industry is not far behind. it's so insane how those 2 industries have actually gained such a foothold in the consumer market 
15:13 < sphertext_> they're literally scams 
15:13 < sphertext_> not to mention that many supplement brands just import from alibaba and encapsulate it in their home kitchen 
15:13 < jrayhawk> the cosmetics industry qualifies as "actively dangerous"
15:14 < muurkha> always has
15:14 < muurkha> galena was one of the first eyeshadows
15:14 < sphertext_> but it's good that at least i can't buy lab grade pepsin unless i am an educational institutional :-) tysm i feel very protected 
15:16 < sphertext_> dentistry is also full of bullshit btw. there's literally 0 logical reason why you should have to pay 100 currencies for an appointment to have high-fluoride toothpaste "prescribed". like yeah, don't eat it, but otherwise, it's completely harmless and THE most effective and simple way to repair enamel 
15:20 < sphertext_> found a spanish supplier of Rx dental products and equipment who seems chill, if anyone is interested
15:21 < muurkha> cool!
15:22 < sphertext_> https://www.dentaltix.com/en/
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15:26 < fenn> sphertext_: why not get the capsules with betaine then?
15:27 < fenn> it's just that they cost more?
15:27 < sphertext_> the prophylaxis product category is the most relevant one for at-home dental care. in particular, dental desensitisers (fluoride varnishes) and carries detectors (they detect infections of exposed dentine)
15:28 < sphertext_> fenn yes, it costs orders of magnitude more per gram + i just don't trust what they put on the ingredient list. i literally believe most of them buy it from alibaba and encapsulate it in their home kitchen
15:30 < fenn> so you're going to buy it from alibaba and encapsulate it in your home kitchen
15:30 < fenn> got it
15:31 < fenn> i had no idea this was a thing, enzymatic caries remover gel https://www.dentaltix.com/en/varios-brix3000-enzymatic-tooth-decay-remover-gel-3-ml-tube
15:31 < fenn> do we have magic goop that deposits bulk dentin?
15:32 < sphertext_> don't you reckon a business like carolina might at least have slightly superior vetting of their chinese suppliers?
15:33 < fenn> bulksupplements.com does testing on every batch. they can afford to because each batch is huge
15:33 < sphertext_> you can't deposit dentin, no. that's a type of tissue your body makes
15:33 < sphertext_> also, incidentally, the product you linked contains papain - another proteolytic enzyme 
15:34 < fenn> yeah i wondered if maybe you were lying about your use case
15:35 < sphertext_> ohh. no, honestly not. i have more important things to do than reselling pepsin lol 
15:36 < fenn> i mean using it for some sort of dentistry magic
15:36 < sphertext_> but yeah. carries detector -> infected dentine remover gel -> fluoride varnish. if you buy those 3 products, they will last you a LONG time and save you a TON of money in dentist visits. they're also totally safe (literally just don't eat them).
15:37 < fenn> there is some drip-on peptide that is legal for sale in europe but not in USA, which eventually mineralizes and can build up enamel(?)
15:38 < sphertext_> hmm. i remember reading a paper about a "magic" peptide like that. has it made it on the market already?
15:42 < fenn> i got the impression it was in use, but this paper is only from 2018
15:42 < fenn> .t https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsbiomaterials.7b00959
15:42 < EmmyNoether> HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden (title:75)
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15:42 < fenn> "Biomimetic Tooth Repair: Amelogenin-Derived Peptide Enables in Vitro Remineralization of Human Enamel"
15:43 < fenn> also only 18 citations on that so it must have been something else
15:43 < sphertext_> yeah! that's the paper i remembered.
15:43 < sphertext_> the peptide is in Table 2
15:44 < sphertext_> you can presumably hire a lab to manufacture it, it's not a big deal 
15:44 < sphertext_> they also reported it was in clinical trials, no?
15:45 < sphertext_> new paper from the same team: 
15:45 < sphertext_> .t https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acsbiomaterials.2c01039
15:45 < EmmyNoether> HTTPError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden (title:75)
15:47 < muurkha> ugh
15:49 < kanzure> hello ike8
15:50 < sphertext_> i honestly cannot tell what's new in that paper. it seems like it's literally a rewriting of the older one 
15:50 < fenn> the peptide is SYENSHSQAINVDRT
15:51 < fenn> they call it shADP5
15:52 < muurkha> that makes me think of katylase
15:52 < kanzure> .gpt4 -c explain any interesting amino acids in the peptide sequence SYENSHSQAINVDRT and what their effect might be
15:53 < fenn> Ser Tyr Glu Asn Ser His Ser Gln Ala Ile Asn Val Asp Arg Thr
15:53 < gptpaste> ​Sure, let's break down the peptide sequence SYENSHSQAINVDRT:1. S (Serine): Serine is a polar amino acid that can participate in hydrogen bonding due to its hydroxyl (-OH) group. It often plays a role in enzyme active sites.2. Y (Tyrosine): Tyrosine is an aromatic amino acid that can absorb UV light, making it useful in studying protein structure. It can also be phosphory - https://bin.gy/inktilmide
15:53 < kanzure> .gpt4 -c is there anything particularly surprising or that stands out about SYENSHSQAINVDRT in particular? I don't need each individual amino acid to be described.
15:53 < gptpaste> ​Without additional context, it's difficult to say if there is anything particularly surprising or outstanding about the peptide sequence SYENSHSQAINVDRT. Peptide sequences can have different functions and properties depending on their length, composition, and structure. They can act as hormones, neurotransmitters, antibiotics and more. However, just looking at the sequenc - https://bin.gy/rthranitab
15:54 < muurkha> I wonder how she's doing
15:54 < kanzure> why is websocket stuff in the context there?
15:55 < fenn> because you started off with -c
15:57 < fenn> in the timeline i inhabited several years ago, it was a product available to dental clinics in europe, not a research paper
15:58 < muurkha> well, Moscow is in Europe
15:59 < muurkha> maybe the older research papers are in Russian
15:59 < ike8> > hello ike8
15:59 < ike8> Hi. I'm using an XMPP bridge, so this message may look janky.
16:02 < kanzure> what brings you here?
16:02 < ike8> A friend referred me
16:05 < sphertext_> oh hi ike 
16:05 < sphertext_> i am your friend lol 
16:05 < sphertext_> glad you made it 
16:05 < sphertext_> messages look fine
16:06 < ike8> right on 👍️ 
16:06 < kanzure> ike8: welcome. this is us: https://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
16:06 < sphertext_> very hands-on community, i like that 
16:07 < ike8> > ike8: welcome. this is us: https://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap
16:07 < ike8> I was just reading that believe it or not 
16:08 < sphertext_> i found this channel when i started thinking about making a new one for research-focused longevity discussion on libera. sadly, ##longevity is already registered, by an individual who seems to have just an ironic interest in it. trying to brainstorm another name currently 
16:08 < kanzure> much of the longevity people have migrated to either GRG or the molecular dao discord things. or the foresight discord.
16:10 < sphertext_> im not familiar with GRG or foresight. im in the VitaDAO discord, they're sort of a molecule subsidiary focusing on longevity specifically. it's kinda cringe tbh. full of smooth brain retail investor larps 
16:11 < kanzure> i don't have a writeup or link handy but there are details in the logs about germline as an approach for longevity instead of adult gene therapy (which would be more difficult)
16:12 < sphertext_>  i think the general focus of VitaDAO isn't as genuine as they advertise it. they're just looking for very low hanging fruits in the longevity research space, and an easy way to fund it 
16:13 < kanzure> germline is pretty low hanging. but people are more focused on aubrey's target audience, the non-germline-stage humans.
16:14 < sphertext_> on the other hand, rapamycin.news is a very solid community. lots of educated folk and some of them are absurdly healthy. like this guy: https://www.rapamycin.news/t/your-current-stack-and-why-sept-2023/9316/18?u=dhm
16:15 < sphertext_> and i also love that there are active MDs on that forum who take the rapamycin/acarbose/statins stack themselves 
16:16 < muurkha> what are "smooth brain retail investor larps"?
16:16 < kanzure> non-gyrification and larping
16:17 < kanzure> he doesn't mean that he *literally* sees past their cranial bones
16:17 < muurkha> I was wondering if maybe there was a nongyrification-for-longevity meme I didn't know about
16:20 < sphertext_> lol no. it just means naive in this context 
16:22 < muurkha> oh, like, the target audience is investors without gyrification?
16:27 < sphertext_> the community there seems to attract ppl interested in "AI based platforms in the field of genetics targeted to longevity" and "how software & ML are changing bio research". you know, whatever hype trend could get the most attention and exit liquidity for their investment. there's barely any discussion from ppl implementing actual interventions. occasionally some interesting paper gets posted, but again the focus seems to be ROI, rather than
16:27 < sphertext_>  fundamental impact
16:31 < sphertext_> kanzure do you know if the grc conference have a discord? or did you have something else in mind when you mentioned them?
16:50 < kanzure> GRG? they have a mailing list.
16:50 < kanzure> bunch of old professors, aubrey de grey, george church, etc.
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17:24 < kanzure> caruthers essay on DNA synthesis https://www.jbc.org/article/S0021-9258(20)46684-0/fulltext
17:38 < fenn> an "i was there" history
18:45 < hprmbridge> Eli> If you look at what they need their returns to be it’s understandable. Assume over 90% of your investments fail, so your one successful investment needs to cover those loses while significantly beating the risk free return rate. And it’s compounded over several years. So your ROI needs to be huge. I need to calculate it as a thought experiment just to see what math they need for break even.
18:47 < hprmbridge> Eli> Conservatively you would need to 15X your return over 5 years. I think that would be the lower bound for them to consider investing. But it may actually be much higher than 15X
18:48 < hprmbridge> Eli> I need to read up on the VC math
18:50 < hprmbridge> Eli> And funding pure r and d is rough. VCs don’t want to touch it. Super risky. I think that’s why the gov does so much pure r and d
19:01 < sphertext_> I'm not judging their math. i just find their conversations uninteresting. i don't really care about the market appeal of another small molecule that optimises autophagy by 10% of what exercise and dieting already accomplish 
19:01 < sphertext_> "utilising AI to discover it" notwithstanding 
19:02 < muurkha> pure R&D, you mean like Arm Ltd.?
19:03 < muurkha> they haven't done any research in 20 years AFAICT but they sure have done a lot of development
19:04 < fenn> you might be making an analogy that your audience doesn't understand
19:04 < fenn> muurkha
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19:38 < sphertext_> you guys ever wonder whether the germline is the final aristocracy that must be abolished, or whether the problem is the hubris of somatic striving for immortality?
19:39 < sphertext_> * somatic cells
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21:42 < fenn> sphertext_: bottlenecked reproduction is what keeps us from degenerating into amorphous blobs https://old.evolbiol.ru/gene/index_3en.html
21:43 < fenn> ah dammit it changed the url
21:43 < fenn> https://old.evolbiol.ru/gene/gene30.htm#p259
21:44 < fenn> dawkins' allegory of bottlewrack and splurge-weed
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23:58 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/jacs.6b04746#
--- Log closed Wed Sep 20 00:00:27 2023