--- Log opened Sun Sep 24 00:00:31 2023
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00:24 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab and the FDA
00:24 -!- Topic set by fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] [Fri Mar 25 06:29:19 2022]
00:24 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 69 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 68 normal]
00:24 -!- mode/#hplusroadmap [+v gnusha] by ChanServ
00:24 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Wed May 19 06:51:36 2021
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04:41 < hprmbridge> Eli> These guys claim to have 1 year shelf life with preground flaxseed. You can get it at Costco. I haven't pesonally tested their claims, but flaxseed grinding is so irksome I just go with them and hope for the best.
04:41 < hprmbridge> Eli> https://www.bobsredmill.com/golden-flaxseed-meal.html#:~:text=Our%20ground%20flax%20has%20a,Keep%20refrigerated%20for%20freshness.
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08:23 < ike8> Is Nicotinamide Riboside or Niacin/Niacinamide better at raising NAD?
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09:34 < ike8> maybe it is better to supplement both instead of one or the other.
09:37 < NewtonTrendy> can anyone shed light on if this article makes sense or is accurate, i've found articles saying ternary computers are old and not quantum and that quantum computers can return a probability that the qbit is 1 and a probability that it is 0 so i assume there is a specific quantum computer with this archetecture, but that you can make them in a number of ways, and i dont understand if this
09:37 < NewtonTrendy> quantum superposition is actually something held outside the computer more than analog computers representing the number, i think that if it were analogue there would be no need to return probabilities in digital space after analogue calculation https://circuspam.coffee/beyond-superposition-from-base-4-calculations-to-analog-continuity/
09:41 < nsh> .wik Tetralemma
09:41 < EmmyNoether> "The tetralemma is a figure that features prominently in the logic of India.  /  It states that with reference to any a logical proposition X, there are four possibilities: /  The history of fourfold negation, the Catuskoti (Sanskrit), is evident in the logico-epistemological [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetralemma
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10:38 < NewtonTrendy> https://circuspam.coffee/decoding-quantum-the-analogue-nature-of-quantum-computing/
10:38 < NewtonTrendy> final article
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11:00 < nsh> i'd say that article was not especially worth reading
11:00 < nsh> you have to be pretty diplomatic to say that it's making sense throughout and it doesn't clarify anything
12:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> GRG has released an LLM trained on longevity research and manuscripts. So I tried it out..... https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1155585730156953610/image.png
12:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> seems broken to me.
12:31 < jrayhawk> confidently wrong about subject matter it doesn't understand, just like a human
12:32 < L29Ah> professional human can admit its lack of understanding
12:48 < fenn> it's because they trained on a censored chat model
12:56 < fenn> does johnny adams realize he comes off as a creepy weirdo
12:57 < fenn> after four minutes my cringe muscles are cramping
12:57 < stipa> maybe the problem is in you and he's normal
12:58 < fenn> this man should not be allowed near a microphone
12:58 < stipa> which video?
12:59 < fenn> it's on https://www.aginginterventionfoundation.org/
12:59 < stipa> dang
13:00 < stipa> those guys that sell prolongation of life are worse than those how to become a millionaire 
13:02 < fenn> he seems well informed and connected, it's just that his presentation style is bad
13:04 < stipa> he's got the problems right but how to solve those problems to attain happy life are wrong
13:05 < stipa> he's some kind of middleman that sells modern stuff in aging industry like therapy to idiots
13:05 < stipa> gene therapy*
13:06 < fenn> i don't think that's quite right
13:06 < stipa> that's in the video on the page you linked
13:07 < fenn> he's trying to get idiots to invest in anti-aging therapy research
13:07 < fenn> there is a difference
13:08 < stipa> yeah, to both invest in it and be rats in research
13:10 < stipa> but yeah, you might be right, he's searching for investors
13:10 < stipa> What I Want Out Of It
13:10 < stipa> – EARLY ACCESS TO THERAPIES
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15:21 < sphertext> ike8 compared to standard vitamin B3, NR has the main advantage of not causing allergic reactions (i.e flushing), at doses high enough to upregulate NAD substantially. another aspect is that the different precursors of NAD (including NMN, NADH, etc.) all appear to boost NAD in tissues differentially. hence why nootropicsdepot sells a blend of multiple NAD precursors (optiNAD), whose effect is presumably broader across tissue types. the
15:21 < sphertext>  downside is that other NAD precusors besides NR have been less studied and are less understood. the forever healthy foundation has a very rigorous literature review of the various NAD precursors, if you want to dive deeper 
15:22 < sphertext> but yes, it's established that simple B3 megadosing can also boost NAD 
15:24 < sphertext> nsh catuskoti is based. it formalises zen, which is a very controversial thing to do 
15:29 < sphertext> fenn lol johnny's pdfs are SO bad. i spent the other day reading them.
15:30 < sphertext> but in terms of creepy, steve horvath is far worse for me. especially when he gets giddy on stage about injecting himself with young blood 
15:30 < fenn> does that feel like anything in particular?
15:30 < sphertext> injecting young blood?
15:30 < fenn> yea
15:31 < fenn> different than old blood?
15:34 < sphertext> eh. it's very controversial. data from mice shows pretty conclusively that young blood cannot suppress or mitigate the effects of old blood. the effect of old blood is dominant by far and the only solution is to dilute it. so the answer is, injecting young blood (without diluting old blood) is mostly pointless
15:35 < sphertext> however, there appears to be some factors in young blood which provide limited benefits
15:36 < sphertext> but the young blood thing is mostly a stupid, enduring fixation for subset of the longevity community 
15:37 < fenn> i understand that, just wondering if it's psychological or physiological
15:38 < sphertext> well the data comes mostly from mice 
15:38 < fenn> i mean the 'giddiness'
15:38 < sphertext> that's just his personality?
15:39 < sphertext> he didn't inject himself with young blood on stage in front of an audience 
15:39 < sphertext> he was just discussing it 
15:40 < fenn> is this just context collapse because recordings persist even after scientific facts make them obsolete?
15:40 < fenn> does horvath continue to inject young blood in spite of the evidence?
15:42 < fenn> based on what you just said, there could be an additional benefit to diluting old blood with young blood, compared to saline
15:43 < sphertext> that's one of the arguments, yeah. that the benefits seen from young blood transfusion are, actually, due to indirect dilution
15:44 < sphertext> but research had split in two at some point. with one group focusing on dilution. and the second continuing to focus on young blood transfusion. and it happened pretty recently. 
15:45 < fenn> why not both?
15:46 < sphertext> well yeah, it does appear there are some factors in young blood which might provide some _limited_ benefit. it's just pretty clear that it won't be dominant 
15:46 < sphertext> and it terms of practicality, incidence of adverse effects in transfusion is FAR greater compared to simple plasmapheresis/dilution 
15:47 < fenn> sure, but less capital intensive
15:47 < sphertext> how? dilution is much cheaper and easier than transfusion 
15:48 < fenn> dump blood overboard, add new blood. no equipment needed
15:48 < fenn> is that just completely wrong?
15:48 < sphertext> i don't understand
15:49 < fenn> instead of having a complicated centrifuge thingy with heparin and special membranes and so on, just use a needle and a plastic tube
15:49 < fenn> two needles
15:49 < sphertext> you can't just add more blood into your body, because it shifts the total volume 
15:50 < fenn> that's why you get rid of the old blood first
15:50 < sphertext> well
15:50 < fenn> i realize you can't drain 100% of the old blood
15:51 < sphertext> you'd have to do it simultaneously, so that total volume stays constant. so you can't do it in two stages. 
15:51 < fenn> for short periods, laying down, with medical personnel present, i bet you can lose a lot of blood without severe side effects (such as death)
15:52 < sphertext> this area of clinical practice is called fluid management/resuscitation
15:53 < sphertext> and there's a lot of bad and unpredictable outcomes 
15:54 < sphertext> also, just to be clear, we are now discussing full blood transfusion; not just plasma transfusion. so you'd be replacing blood cells as well 
15:55 < fenn> i wasn't sure about the immune consequences of that
15:55 < sphertext> yeah, introducing a large number of cells into your circulatory system is very problematic 
15:55 < sphertext> again, incidence of allergic reactions is high even in plasma transfusion alone. it's much worse if you also add cells
15:57 < fenn> "Transfusion-associated graft versus host disease frequently occurs in immunodeficient patients where recipient's body failed to eliminate donor's T cells. Instead, donor's T cells attack the recipient's cells. It occurs one week after transfusion"
15:58 < fenn> "Irradiation and leukoreduction of blood products is necessary for high risk patients to prevent T cells from attacking recipient cells."
15:58 < sphertext> crazy 
15:58 < sphertext> the transfused T cells are still fighting for their "old" host, basically 
15:59 < sphertext> s/old/former
15:59 < fenn> presumably if you're replacing most of your blood, it counts as immunodeficient. on the other hand, since ethically there must be more than one blood donor, hopefully the donors' T-cells will fight it out with each other
16:07 < sphertext> there's apparently some lore about bryan johnsons dumping his gf after she got breast cancer because she had become a liability 
16:10 < fenn> huh, apparently you can bank your own blood and then use it during a scheduled surgery
16:10 < fenn> you'd think this would be standard practice
16:14 < fenn> "Higher cost due to individualized processing, record-keeping, and management." oh boo hoo
16:16 < sphertext> i was thinking about that the other day. basically just stored your own "young blood" and infuse it later in life... 
16:18 < fenn> well it only lasts a few weeks refrigerated. cryo preservation could work
16:19 < sphertext>  you can freeze plasma no problem 
16:20  * fenn mumbles something about stem cell banking
16:21 < sphertext> well you wouldn't get them from the blood. but preservation of your own stem cells for later use is also an interesting idea
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17:34 < sphertext> does anyone know how difficult it is to set up a company and obtain licence for purchasing chemicals?
17:35 < sphertext> like, what is the approval process? is it practical?
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17:37 < fenn> it depends on the chemicals, but i don't know the details
17:38 < fenn> for many things, i suspect a business license and tax ID number will suffice. also having a loading dock is helpful
17:38 < sphertext> business licence and tax ID seems doable, it's not expensive either
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17:38 < sphertext> wdym loading dock?
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17:40 < fenn> a non-residential address. i dunno, i see it a lot on shipping forms
17:41 < sphertext> oh weird. how do they check if it's residential?
17:41 < fenn> it's just a concrete floor at higher than ground level, so you can wheel stuff out of a truck
17:41 < sphertext> with work-from-home and all...
17:41 < sphertext> right, but a small lab doesn't necessarily need that 
17:42 < fenn> "Government agencies and postal services maintain databases that classify addresses as residential, commercial, or mixed-use. These classifications are based on zoning laws and regulations, which dictate how a property can be used."
17:42 < fenn> supposedly
17:43 < sphertext> ffs
17:43 < fenn> i really doubt a chemical supplier will go to all that effort
17:44 < sphertext> what about the tax ID? can you fake it? or is that easy for them to check?
17:44 < fenn> but if it's like, "breezy oaks lane, apt #4" they might take a look
17:44 < sphertext> and can they profile the business based on that information? or do all businesses look the same, whether you sell shoes or manufacture vaccines?
17:45 < fenn> i wouldn't recommend faking a tax ID, since that's fraud
18:03 < sphertext> apparently, in the UK you are required to indicate the industry/activity profile of your company when you register it, by choosing from a (large) pre-defined set of SIC codes  
18:04 < sphertext> although this appears to be a completely free choice 
18:06 < sphertext> there have to be some other checks that are being done when buying lab chemicals tho 
18:08 < fenn> most chemicals just aren't that dangerous so nobody bothers to check up on you
18:08 < fenn> for large quantities of stuff, there are laws, laws, and more laws
18:10 < sphertext> what about buying from a place like https://www.selleckchem.com?
18:11 < sphertext> like what is it they actually check for?
18:12 < sphertext> on longevity forums they often say "if you have friends in the academia or working in a lab, you can ask them to order this compound for you". there must be a reason they don't say instead "just register a company and get a tax ID, so you can order it yourself"
18:43 < kanzure> "A test of memory for stimulus sequences in great apes" https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0290546
19:08 < kanzure> https://www.newsweek.com/mom-22-kids-says-life-hard-millionaire-hubby-prison-1716220
19:17 < fenn> if she has nannies and surrogate mothers, what makes them her kids exactly?
19:19 < fenn> are they her eggs?
19:33 < sphertext> lol
19:35 < sphertext> she's the CEO of the child raising enterprise 
19:38 < kanzure> it occurs to me that this operation could be further optimized by only hiring surrogates that would work as nannies
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19:56 < sphertext> so i decided to get a glucose monitor. looking for used ones on ebay now. accuracy is variable https://nikhilthota.com/writing/cgm/
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21:56 < fenn> nikhil makes a big deal out of the banana spike but it looks about the same as the ramen and beer to me
21:56 < fenn> https://nikhilthota.com/article_images/cgm/banana_vs_ramen.png
21:57 < fenn> he cut short the ramen dip by adding the beer
21:58 < fenn> why is there even a "service" for CGM? it's just a machine with some cartridges
21:59 < fenn> i think the new patches are just bluetooth LE
22:14 < sphertext> eh didn't pay attention to the details. i just liked the angle. a relatively cheap way to track an important biomarker and then adjust your habits around it
22:16 < sphertext> also fyi, there are significantly cheaper glucose meters that require blood from a finger prick 
22:16 < sphertext> but yeah, the cgm seems very overpriced 
22:18 < sphertext> you know what, there's a £43 cgm on aliexpress
22:18 < sphertext> lasts 2 weeks
22:24 < sphertext> i might fuck around and get one actually
22:24 < sphertext> 2 weeks should be enough to run all the tests i need 
22:25 < sphertext> and the blood test ones would cost me £30 so not saving a lot
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