--- Log opened Sat Sep 30 00:00:37 2023
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01:31 < fenn> some light reading: https://old.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/14rp7w9/from_the_late_2000s_to_the_mid2010s_i_worked_as_a/
01:31 < fenn> .t
01:31 < EmmyNoether> From the late 2000s to the mid-2010s, I worked as a molecular biologist for a national security contractor in a program to study Exo-Biospheric-Organisms (EBO). I will share with you a lot of information on this subject. Feel free to ask questions or ask for clarification : aliens
01:51 < sphertext_> cool science fiction 
02:13 < fenn> http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/554images/Respiration/Respiration-bird-mammal-insect.gif
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13:10 < kanzure> "Loss of Notch signaling in skeletal stem cells enhances bone formation with aging" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41413-023-00283-8
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14:51 < fenn> this is a really impressive integration of a bunch of random AI stuff such as chatGPT, google image search, and good old fashioned bot scripting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wTf_bbkW2U&t=19m20s 
14:51 < fenn> .t
14:51 < EmmyNoether> Creating a Self-Aware Lara Croft that Plays Tomb Raider - YouTube
17:34 < sphertext_> does anybody remember those transdisciplinary papers in complexity science, where they used something from thermodynamics, idk i think it was brownian motion, and applied it to patterns of human migration, or something like that?
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17:41 < ike8> you can search the logs
17:41 < ike8> https://gnusha.org/logs/
17:42 < sphertext_> i doubt the logs capture exhaustively the past 15 years in the history of science 
17:42 < sphertext_> i was just wondering if anyone else here have heard about those papers, as they were kinda famous/interesting 
17:45 < ike8> ah, gotcha. I assumed you spoke with someone here about those papers.
17:45 < kanzure> "To eliminate the repeat that causes the major deletion from human mitochondria"
17:45 < kanzure> "To break up both the FOXO and TOR networks into 2 or more independent sub-networks that are independently regulated, so you don't have to turn the whole mTOR network off to do any of the FOXO3a longevity-enhancing expression.  But it's hard to imagine how to do that without synthesizing new DNA sequences for large-ish chunks of the genome.  Even then, it wouldn't be easy."
17:46 < sphertext_> hehe nope. just a random question 
17:46 < kanzure> "Replace many genes for constructing the mitochondria and for doing oxidative phosphorylation with genes derived from birds, whose mitochondria are much more robust to oxidative damage.
17:46 < kanzure> "
17:47 < Mabel> dunno about papers but there's Complexity Zoo which is a wiki on complexity of all things~ https://complexityzoo.net/Complexity_Zoo
17:48 < sphertext_> Mabel complexity sciences != computational complexity 
17:49 < kanzure> a look from 10 years ago at aging: https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/aging_roadmap.txt
17:49 < kanzure> er, 13 years.
17:54 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37714703 
17:54 < kanzure> "“Chatbot That Gives Detailed Instructions on Murder, Ethnic Cleansing” Is this supposed to manipulate me? Just low effort drooling “think of the children!” nonsense? Who is at their laptops thinking, “damn I wish I could ethnically cleanse people but gosh darn I just don’t know where to begin”?"
17:56 -!- A_Dragon is now known as DemonDerg
17:57 < sphertext_> i honestly hoped we'd be over LLMs by the 4th quarter of this year 
18:01 < kanzure> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37721158
18:09 < sphertext_> i can't be the only one who thinks that the debate about LLM censorship is just a business tactic to stir ppl up, so that LLMs continue to capture their attention?
18:12 < kanzure> i don't understand, like you specifically don't believe that tech companies have been under pressure from the government to moderate content and all those reports are false or something?
18:15 < kanzure> (insert snarky remark about section 230 here)
18:18 < kanzure> really? "Llama.cpp inference on fast cpus is perfectly usable for 70B parameter models" 
18:18 < sphertext_> "On one side are AI companies like OpenAI, researchers, and users who believe that for safety reasons, it is best for AI to be developed behind closed doors, where professionals and experts can decide what AI tools should and should not be able to do for their users."
18:18 < sphertext_> from the article you posted 
18:18 < sphertext_> doesn't say anything about gov regulation 
18:18 < sphertext_> it's OpenAi that is trying to stir up artificial panic 
18:19 < L29Ah> all the base LLM-training crowd does it apparently
18:20 < L29Ah> at least Facebook + all the web-available interactive LLM services
18:21 < kanzure> sphertext_: the yudkowskyites are very interested in winning some extra territory from this so you will see lots of pro-regulation commentary
18:21 < L29Ah> the only publicly accessible large language model that wasn't messed up like this is llama, today maybe some fully-open-source-open-data effort have catched up to it
18:22 < kanzure> and unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much of a structured effort to stop ceding ground to lesswrong dwellers
18:22 < L29Ah> kanzure: are there that many yudkowskyites?
18:22 < kanzure> through effective altruism yes
18:22 < kanzure> e/acc has not done much
18:22 < kanzure> but maybe someone will solve this
18:26 < L29Ah> https://manifold.markets/RobinGreen/will-any-prominent-notkilleveryonei
18:27 < sphertext_> there's no danger in a broken tool; but if you keep yelling about regulating it, you might end up distracting everyone from how broken it is lol 
18:27 < kanzure> yes what a surprise, the people who are ideologically aligned with eliezer who created a polling system are also the same people who would vote for an outcome that aligns with the ideological alignment thing. wow! amazing outcome!
18:28 < kanzure> "examine the arguments in detail" == curtail to the gishgallop
18:28 < L29Ah> that's supposed to be a prediction market, not a polling system
18:28 < kanzure> whatever, it's still the same people
18:30 < kanzure> "wow! the dominant god internet cult is precisely represented on a website marketed and made to cater to members of that dominant machine god religion!"
18:30 < kanzure> *machine god
18:30 < sphertext_> lol
18:30 < kanzure> what is this, anyway? what happened to metaculus or predicit- didn't predictit get reinstated after kalshi showed how to be regulated?
18:35 < kanzure> also: i don't believe that harassing everyone into participating in the machine god cult is an appropriate game theoretic strategy. i know it seems appetitizing and appealing but usually people fight pretty hard against that kind of totalitarianism.
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18:39 < sphertext_> riling ppl up is precisely the point imho. riling ppl up about trivialities has been a dominant tactic in public relations for societal control the past decade 
18:41 < L29Ah> poked manifold for some time now, poking metaculus, apparently there are plenty of small differences, i couldn't pinpoint a crucial one yet, metaculus has more varied question types yet lacking tags for questions' (subscriptions/filtering)
18:43 < L29Ah> apparently on manifold one can insert monies and spend monies in pre-approved charities
18:43 < kanzure> https://accelerator.github.com/
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18:45 < sphertext_> interesting that github is preserving dignity after the microsoft acquisition 
18:48 < kanzure> "US government backs thymus rejuvenation project with $37m ARPA-H funding[..] Thymus Rejuvenation project is led by Thymmune Therapeutics, a George Church..."
18:54 < L29Ah> sphertext_: they've closed registrations with anonymous e-mail providers
18:55 < sphertext_> that sucks. there's gitlab, but i hate their front end, because it doesn't work without javascript..
18:56 < sphertext_> so you can't read project readmes/documentation/wikis in console browsers 
18:57 < kanzure> https://www.palladiummag.com/2020/04/01/the-bison-sphere-manifesto/
19:00 < kanzure> is there a specific argument for a large-scale space structure that is manageable in the near-term (next 20-30 years) that could also support a population size of several billion people?
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20:08 < sphertext_> so there's an app called "too good to go" where local restaurants/cafes/bakeries/grocery stores go and say "hey we have this leftover food today, you can have it for a couple of currencies" 
20:09 < sphertext_> and you can reserve it, then go and pick it up 
20:09 < sphertext_> it's intended to mitigate food waste. i think it's a fantastic app 
20:10 < sphertext_> problem is that it's super popular, so ppl keep refreshing the app and when something comes up, they reserve it quickly, before others do 
20:10 < sphertext_> so i mitm'ed the app traffic to find the API calls it makes, so i can write a script to monitor for updates automatically :D 
20:12 < sphertext_> ik it's kinda basic, but it's one of those neat pay offs that come from having a bit of technical knowledge 
20:13 < sphertext_> most of the stuff is discounted in the range of 50-75% so it's a big win 
20:26 < kanzure> have you ever considered using your skills to just make more money so that you don't need a discount of 75% to eat human food
20:29 < sphertext_> i have more important things to do with my life, than becoming an agent of capitalism, especially since i can already afford most of what i need, with a few tricks
20:29 < sphertext_> why would i let capitalism exploit me, when i can exploit it instead? 
20:30 < kanzure> exploit you?
20:31 < sphertext_> for labour 
20:31 < sphertext_> usually towards questionable goals 
20:33 < sphertext_> do i really want to build another cookie tracker to increase sales of toxic junk food? 
20:33 < sphertext_> also, i have very low neurological resilience to stress and struggle with patience in social interactions, so i don't cope well in high pressure workplace environments. 
20:33 < sphertext_> dont judge me :( 
22:48 < muurkha> kanzure: " specific argument for a large-scale space structure that is manageable in the near-term (next 20-30 years) that could also support a population size of several billion people" is a possible summary of https://dernocua.github.io/notes/backward-exponential.html
22:51 < muurkha> but I don't know if converting asteroid Pallas into separate O'Neill colonies is what you have in mind
22:52 < muurkha> since it's numerous space structures rather than just one impractically enormous one
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 01 00:00:38 2023