--- Log opened Mon Oct 09 00:00:50 2023
00:21 < sphertext> i wonder whether there is more to the reason why active ppl enjoy a better healthspan. there is obviously the direct effect on body composition and so on. but apart from that, the higher energy demand allows them to consume more foods. and while the additional calories in the end are burned, they continue to benefit from the higher intake of non-nutritional chemicals (like plant polyphenols, etc). to me this seems connected with acarbose,
00:21 < sphertext>  where the idea is to continue ingesting a larger amount of whole carbs (and the associated chemicals), but without the caloric surplus.
01:32 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
01:36 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
01:41 < sphertext_> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196002104734
01:41 < sphertext_> .t
01:41 < EmmyNoether> Haemonetics Plasma Collection System Haemonetics PCS2 / PCS 2  | eBay
01:50 < fenn> oxidative stress from exercise stimulates repair mechanisms
01:52 < sphertext_> yeah, i included those under "direct benefits"
01:58 < sphertext_> i wonder how difficult it is to get that haemonetics unit past customs 
02:02 < sphertext_> on one hand, there's no way they'd allow it. on the other, what's the chance they even expect it?
03:14 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:50 < kanzure> what? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roujin_Z
06:07 < L29Ah> sphertext: pretty sure blood-separating membranes are easier to pull through customs
06:26 -!- sphertext_ [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
06:27 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:30 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:31 -!- sphertext_ [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has joined #hplusroadmap
06:49 < sphertext> L29Ah but you cant recover the cells from the membrane filters to return them back into the body 
06:55 -!- millefy [~Millefeui@anantes-651-1-211-3.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
06:56 < L29Ah> sure you can
06:58 < L29Ah> sphertext: https://cdn.jpg.wtf/futurico/89/0c/1428099237-890c660986942835e133ce2a05d1fc6f.jpeg the membrane module is 21
07:00 < L29Ah> https://diy.d3.ru/plazmoferez-krovi-v-domashnikh-usloviiakh-705121/?sorting=rating#13640472 the guy reporting doing it on himself without a pumping machine, including the return of the cells
07:03 -!- millefy [~Millefeui@anantes-651-1-211-3.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:10 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:11 -!- test__ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:14 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
07:14 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:15 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
07:17 -!- test__ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
07:31 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:33 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
07:37 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
07:50 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:59 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
08:45 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:53 < ike8> russians are so cool
09:07 < ike8> sphertext: KDS2010, a new MAO-B inhibitor:
09:07 < ike8> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8608967/
09:07 < ike8> In regard to Selegiline:
09:07 < ike8> > Irreversible MAO-B inhibitors, such as selegiline and rasagiline, are widely prescribed to PD patients. While these agents are effective in delaying the need for dopamine replacement therapy with levodopa and induce relatively few adverse effects, several studies have suggested little actual neuroprotective potential [12, 13].
09:20 < ike8> more:
09:20 < ike8> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30906861/
09:22 -!- Chetjmag [~Chetjmag@35.0.50.117] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:28 -!- Chetjmag [~Chetjmag@35.0.50.117] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
10:22 -!- kman85 [~kman@node-1w7jr9qt87i7eog0e1cyolmly.ipv6.telus.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:24 -!- kman85 [~kman@node-1w7jr9qt87i7eog0e1cyolmly.ipv6.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit]
12:01 < sphertext_> ike8 interesting
12:10 -!- helleshin [~talinck@108-225-123-172.lightspeed.cntmoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:23 -!- ike8 [12fdf2ee08@irc.cheogram.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
12:26 < sphertext> L29Ah i did not expect reading that to trigger a vasovagal syncope. holy shit 
12:55 -!- Guest94 [~Guest94@S0106a84e3f631143.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:59 -!- ike8 [12fdf2ee08@irc.cheogram.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:01 -!- Llamamoe [~Llamamoe@46.204.77.176] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
13:09 < ike8> jennyschem is doing a KDS2010 synth; $270 for 20 grams. I have half a mind to go for it.
13:11 -!- Guest94 [~Guest94@S0106a84e3f631143.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Client closed]
13:47 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
14:52 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
14:52 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:58 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:01 < sphertext> for me, KDS2010 is not within my risk tolerance, because it's so new 
15:07 < ike8> Yeah, probably wise to hold off for a few years.
15:09 < sphertext> also, if its benefits come from total MAOB inhibition without upregulating diamine oxidase, then the mechanism is somewhat distinct from _microdosed_ selegiline 
16:14 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
16:40 < sphertext> ike8 also another thing.. the quote you posted about selegiline's lack of neuroprotection was specifically in the context of early onset dementia. they found that once diamine oxidase is upregulated to compensate for the irreversible destruction of MAOB, aberrant GABA resumes and continues to inhibit dopamine, so the disease resumes its progression. 
16:42 < sphertext> this is very specific in the context of dementia progression. i don't think you can necessarily extrapolate to when there is no aberrant GABA yet 
16:44 < sphertext> in dementia, reactive astrocytes start producing GABA excessively, first by MAOB and, if MAOB is lost, by diamine oxidase 
16:46 < sphertext> this doesn't really happen normally. so the fact that selegiline can't mitigate it long term, doesn't preclude its other benefits when it doesn't have to do this anyway 
16:49 < sphertext> GABA in general is the nemesis of neuroplasticity, and this is why it also plays a role in dementia. but GABA is not abnormally upregulated in healthy subjects 
17:05 < sphertext> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24973918/
17:05 < sphertext> .t
17:05 < EmmyNoether> GABA from reactive astrocytes impairs memory in mouse models of Alzheimer's disease - PubMed
17:06 < sphertext> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5404890/
17:06 < sphertext> .t
17:06 < EmmyNoether> Neurotoxic reactive astrocytes are induced by activated microglia - PMC
17:07 < sphertext> so amyloid plaques -> neurotoxic astrocyte phenotype -> excess GABA -> suppressed neuroplasticity 
17:10 < sphertext> the excess GABA that neurotoxic astrocytes make can come from either MAOB or from DO pathways. but inhibiting MAOB by selegiline results in upregulating DO and you still end up with excess GABA. somehow, KDS2010 doesn't upregulate DO, and they don't really explain why not, but as a result excess GABA is suppressed long term
17:12 < sphertext> anyway, the gist is that selegiline is not neuroprotective specifically in the context of neurotoxic astrocytes that have been activated by amyloid plaques
17:46 < ike8> Fascinating. That explanation fills in so many gaps in my understanding.
17:52 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
17:56 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:05 < fenn> i wouldnt mind upregulating diamine oxidase...
19:02 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com]
20:12 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:15 < sphertext> based on paper it seems to do it by shift metaconndria preferace to fat acid oxidation in huppocumps, this gives it more atp which faster its work, oe of noticed things is mglur2 expression alertion , which is negative feedback receptor of glutimate , means glutimate be more extecitory with its degardition, which cause any glutimate medated plactisity (nmda, ampa, kentikate) to be improved, by the luck, the pathway that mythlefloate improve
20:15 < sphertext>  was increaseing BH4 which cofactor for aadc enzym that produce all amino neurotransmitters, this makes aadc less buttleneck, the increase in dopamine serotonine adrenaline activity in all brain places is good, but the increase in huppocumes being more poteniated by alcar do plactisity is "activity drived" increase is synpatic strieght
20:16 < fenn> what happened to your spelling?
20:16 < L29Ah> orthography degradation
20:16 < sphertext> it's not mine
20:16 < sphertext> i copy pasted it 
20:17 < sphertext> huppocumps 
20:28 < fenn> #lifegoals https://defector.com/asexual-insect-accused-of-having-sex
20:32  * L29Ah accuses fenn of boringposting
21:19 -!- catalase [catalase@freebnc.bnc4you.xyz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
21:42 -!- mxz [~mxz@user/mxz] has quit [Quit: cya]
21:43 -!- mxz [~mxz@user/mxz] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:16 < fenn> inventing new classes of security vulnerability https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FF7rppOxbMAAXsdr.jpg
22:18 < fenn> this is why we need open source AI https://nitter.net/Suhail/status/1710653717081653712
22:21 < sphertext> isn't it simpler to just not call stochastic scribblings a "security vulnerability"?
22:24 < sphertext> "i believe in science, facts and empatity" lol 
22:25 < fenn> it's leaking information from the secret prompt
22:26 < fenn> they could probably do better by asking it for a high resolution scan of its instructions
22:27 < fenn> or go through it sentence by sentence
22:27 < sphertext> but what is the actual threat here? 
22:28 < fenn> the prompt was supposed to be secret but the AI was tricked into revealing it
22:29 < fenn> as far as i know this has never happened with image generation before
22:30 < fenn> ANYWAY
22:30 < sphertext> would you call someone finding a videogame hack a "security vulnerability"?
22:30 < fenn> sure
22:31 < fenn> just because YOU don't think it's important, that doesn't mean it can't be exploited and used to escalate other attacks
22:32 < fenn> ANYWAY
22:32 < sphertext> no, I'm just asking what such an attack would look like. and who the victims are 
22:32 < superkuh> The GPT models don't still use the sin/cos positional encoding, do they?
22:33 < fenn> the big story here is that openAI is doing all sorts of nasty things to your image generation prompts
22:33 < fenn> it's not just trying to make it look better
22:38 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
23:32 -!- Goober_patrol66 [~Gooberpat@2603-8080-4540-7cfb-0000-0000-0000-113a.res6.spectrum.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:33 -!- Gooberpatrol_66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
23:44 -!- sphertext [~sphertext@user/sphertext] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:45 -!- millefy [~Millefeui@anantes-651-1-211-3.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:59 -!- millefy [~Millefeui@anantes-651-1-211-3.w90-25.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Tue Oct 10 00:00:51 2023