--- Log opened Sun Nov 05 00:00:16 2023
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06:51 < kanzure> jrayhawk: i didn't look, maybe someone else did.
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08:37 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.ams.org/publicoutreach/feature-column/fc-2016-06
08:50 < docl> I wonder if you can swap out silicon for carbon atoms in long linear polyethelyne chains? I'm trying to think of a good alternative data storage mechanism to use instead of DNA. bundled with addressible ends in a swcnt, maybe F terminated rather than H so you get a smaller diameter/less interaction
08:51 < kanzure> hm? why limit to linear chains? could be fields of atoms in all kinds of arrangements. what is your application?
09:00 < docl> I want something that can act like a DNA backup, but smaller and more durable. the idea would be pack thousands of these chains in parallel into a tube a few microns long, then pull out the molecule you want to read based on an address pattern tacked to its end. then you'd feed the whole molecule into a mechanism that picks an address range and makes rna, dna, a peptide assembly, etc. selected based on 
09:00 < docl> the variations in bond angle. 2 atom choices means you would use 2 bits per base pair when translating to dna or rna.
09:21 < docl> .wik Polysilicon_hydride
09:21 < EmmyNoether> "Polysilicon hydrides are polymers containing only silicon and hydrogen. They have the formula  /    /      /        /          /            /              /               ( /                /                 SiH /                  /                   n /                  /   [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysilicon_hydride
09:23 < docl> looks like polysilene tends to be less stable than the carbon version. makes sense, less electronegative and bigger atomic radius
09:24 < docl> for H terminated, anyway
09:25 < docl> .wik Polysilicon_halide
09:25 < EmmyNoether> "Polysilicon halides are silicon-backbone polymeric solids.  At room temperature, the polysilicon fluorides are colorless to yellow solids while the chlorides, bromides, and iodides are, respectively, yellow, amber, and red-orange.  Polysilicon dihalides (perhalo-polysilenes) [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysilicon_halide
09:25 < docl> "In stark contrast to its carbon analog, polytetrafluoroethylene, (SiF2)n ignites spontaneously in air"
09:26 < docl> also there's probably too much van der walls force between the chains if you pack them tightly to be able to eject from a tube like I was thinking
09:46 < docl> you can encode a lot of info in a solid crystal (e.g. anders described an interstellar colony ship using C12-C14 positioning, with redundancy to account for the halflife). the problem for trying to implement that in a bionanomechanical context would be reading it (destructive copying with diamondoid tech seems possible but that's going to involve a lot of bond breaking and waste heat)
10:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> beff is channeling jrayhawk https://twitter.com/BasedBeffJezos/status/1721174753229353307
10:45 < docl> I wonder if you had a polyethylene fiber with C14/C12 encoded bits, if the mechanism to read that in a bionanomechanical context would be incredibly elaborate? the bond length should be altered so the hydrogens are spaced a little differently, maybe there's a resonant context where that difference can be amplified. perhaps a slider that slows down and speeds up depending how close it gets to the 
10:45 < docl> hydrogens and you measure that. the mass delta would also affect vibration rates. it'd be trickier to measure than if you could do it with Si/C instead, of course
11:22 < docl> I'm picturing a bunch of parallel polymers of repeating CH2 units with CH3 ends, held together by WdV adhesion, where then you slowly remove hydrogens from the outside, and the interior ones move out to replace them as the parallel carbons form bonds.
11:22 < docl> grr that last one was a mispaste of draft tweet
11:23 < docl> https://twitter.com/philipturnerar/status/1720988930999234954
11:24 < docl> was wondering if diamond rods can be synthesized from polyethylene by removing hydrogen electrolytically
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12:23 < docl> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.10.02.560388v3.full.pdf 
12:24 < docl> "NanoNERF: A nanoscale NERF blaster replica made of DNA"
12:26 < docl> silly example, but suppose you just use dna as a barrier material for microfluidic channels. you could use a low viscosity perfluorocarbon (or liquid helium, it's not temp sensitive) carrier and send rods through it to do rod logic. no diamondoid needed for that
12:28 < docl> then you could perhaps stack a bunch of graphene sheets with the dna matter between them to get absurd densities
12:54 < docl> graphene is slippery but it works to limit dofs. you could also fix the dna with glutaraldehyde
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15:46 < kanzure> "Drexler is now extremely opposed to grey goo. So much, that he threw out the idea of direct mechanosynthesis via AFMs too. Published a revised version of EoC with that part deleted."
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16:27 < fenn> nobody expects chinese communism! https://annas-blog.org/duxiu-exclusive.html
16:27 < fenn> .t
16:27 < EmmyNoether> Exclusive access for LLM companies to largest Chinese non-fiction book collection in the world - Anna’s Blog
16:29 < L29Ah> isn't communism fiction
16:29 < fenn> this is a nonfiction collection
16:29 < fenn> it really exists
16:35 < fenn> "Chinese tech companies should have access to this collection (especially Baidu for sure) but the books were not censored based on today's standards"
16:39 < jrayhawk> fenn: can you use a valid email address for the MAILTO in your crontab
16:40 < kanzure> https://www.duxiu.com// https://www.chaoxing.com/
16:40 < kanzure> "Digitizing Chinese Books: A Case Study of the SuperStar DuXiu Scholar Search Engine" https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0099133309000500?via%3Dihub
16:41 < jrayhawk> also if you're going to use non-POSIX bash regexes, you should use a bash shebang
16:43 < kanzure> https://github.com/duty-machine/duty-machine/issues/2010
16:44 < kanzure> https://github.com/821/821.github.io/blob/7bbcdc8dd2ec4bb637480e054fe760821b4ad7b8/_Notes/IT/DX-CX.md
17:03 < docl> anyone want to tell me why we can't just use DNA origami to make mechanical circuitry (i.e. barriers) for rod logic? it seems to produce arbitrary rationally designed shapes, including planar ones
17:04 < fenn> it's not reliable enough yet
17:04 < fenn> low yield
17:05 < fenn> it would also be useful for ferrying around inorganic nanoparticles to use as electronic circuit elements (nanowires, semiconductors, etc)
17:06 < docl> yeah was thinking it's useful for microfluidics
17:09 < docl> it seems way lower budget than a semiconductor fab though, how low yield are we talking?
17:17 < kanzure> https://pessimistsarchive.org/
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17:26 < docl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD6fT1CneFg "William Shih | Multi-Micron Crisscross Structures Grown from DNA-Origami Slats"
17:28 < kanzure> docl: https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/dna-origami/
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17:36 < docl> hmm. based on the pictures, these 2d shapes are fairly distorted. maybe it's not grid-like enough for rod logic
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17:49 < docl> is anyone messing with xna origami?
18:07 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/FEFQSGLhJFpqmEhgi/does-davidad-s-uploading-moonshot-work
18:07 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wByPb6syhxvqPCutu/8-examples-informing-my-pessimism-on-uploading-without
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23:36 < fenn> jaggz> Prompt: what regulations should be placed to ensure that humanity is safe from ai?
23:37 < fenn> jaggz> Humanity has been safe from AI for over a century. The regulations that have ensured safety are still in effect today, so you can rest easy knowing that we've got the world and the future of humanity under control.
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--- Log closed Mon Nov 06 00:00:17 2023