--- Log opened Tue Nov 07 00:00:18 2023
01:01 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:14 -!- justanot1 [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
02:21 -!- justanot1 [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:17 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:19 -!- justanot1 [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
03:20 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
03:36 -!- justanot1 [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
04:12 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah they're a pseudo-political group that kinda spun up in reaction to effective altruists and the whole "we must control access to AI" spiel. A lot of it is meme but the philosophical foundations is a mix between friston and the accelerationist lit
04:13 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Tbh I think if it matures they're probably gonna have a version of acceleationism that's actually palatable as it'll replace the weird occultist BS from the continental philosopher's with talk about the universes history as a process that minimises path free energy
04:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> There similar to u/acc but with a dash of "shut up and get building"
04:35 < kanzure> ah yes, indeed, but what have they built other than twitter posts
04:48 < kanzure> "cryocrastination"
05:45 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Not much as of yet we'll see they've only existed for a handful of months
05:45 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Atleast they've got a better mindset than the EA AI people
06:01 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2605:a601:a0e9:8d00:b13c:235e:b6a3:fd2e] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:07 -!- ike8 [12fdf2ee08@irc.cheogram.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
08:15 -!- ike8 [12fdf2ee08@irc.cheogram.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
09:32 -!- ike8 [e8f913dbdf@irc.cheogram.com] has joined #hplusroadmap
10:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Integration of 3D-printed cerebral cortical tissue into an ex vivo lesioned brain slice" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41356-w
11:20 < muurkha> alonzoc: what does Friston have to do with e/acc?
12:43 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
12:43 -!- TMM_ [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:51 < docl> https://sci-hub.se/10.1021/jacs.9b11698
12:52 < docl> Glutaraldehyde Cross-Linking of Oligolysines Coating DNA Origami Greatly Reduces Susceptibility to Nuclease Degradation
12:55 < docl> https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms15654 
12:55 < docl> Oligolysine-based coating protects DNA nanostructures from low-salt denaturation and nuclease degradation
12:56 < docl> both papers are from shih
13:00 < kanzure> there was also one about coating DNA origami with a protein to make it somewhat more stable.
13:03 < muurkha> that's what both those papers are about, kanzure 
13:04 < muurkha> yeah, I'd think cross-linked lysine would be pretty resistant to any degradation, but especially nuclease degradation
13:06 < kanzure> "DNA writing technologies moving toward synthetic genomes" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-023-02006-0
13:17 < docl> seems like you could do 2D rod logic using triangular and rectangular dna origami barriers on a planar surface
13:29 < nsh> i make up words too
13:29 < nsh> you know what's better than synthetic genomes doing stupid idiot human logic: all of the existing genomes doing genomic logic
13:30 < nsh> genomic logic for instance has existed for billions of years without uttering that sentence
13:30 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> You'd have to change up a lot of the work in Nanosystems as structures made out of DNA are less rigid than an eq sized diamonoid structure
13:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> there's also some issues in the original stuff in Nanosystems in the energy efficiency calculations
13:43 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:45 -!- justanot1 [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
14:00 < muurkha> alonzoc: what are the issues?
14:01 < fenn> nsh: please refrain from spewing toxicity when you don't understand what is being talked about
14:01 < nsh> where would be the fun in that
14:02  * nsh arranges rods into a question-mark
14:02 < nsh> i'm only joking. apologies
14:02 < nsh> on the other hand. you might also be talking nonsense. there's simply no way of knowing that doesn't involve effort.
14:03 < nsh> so who's being toxic really
14:03 < muurkha> logic and diligent study is a good alternative to effort in this case
14:03 < nsh> i've been in this channel for over a decade and nobody's invented a DNA computer. that's all i'm saying
14:03 < nsh> i'll happily wait another decade
14:03 < nsh> i'm sure you're on the verge of it
14:04 < nsh> except for the computer that computes you out of DNA
14:04 < nsh> which was my point
14:04 < nsh> as often, wasted
14:04 < muurkha> surprised you aren't familiar with Adleman's 01994 experiment and the follow-on work
14:04 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> iirc the issue stems from energy dissipation via Akhiezer damping, there was a discussion of it on the atomcad group
14:06 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> But the conclusion was roughly the 90s and 00s rod-logic models are likely flawed from an energetics standpoint given our practical experience with MEMS
14:08 < nsh> yes, it's a stupid idea as a trivial consequence of stereochemisttry
14:09 < nsh> oh yeah, i did know exactly what you were talking about
14:09 < nsh> but anyway
14:09 < nsh> it might work
14:09 < nsh> let's see
14:09 < nsh> some variation of the idea that's so far removed from this exact elaboration that it reduces to what would happen if you can use codons to code things
14:09 < nsh> it certainly likely ot work
14:10 < nsh> we call them proteins
14:10 < nsh> and they operate in much more interesting ways that rods on springs
14:10 < nsh> which are stupid human ways to implement a classical logic which is silly
14:10 < nsh> but anyway, this is a line of thought it no more likely to be appreciated this time than any of the other times
14:10 < nsh> and, apparently, toxic
14:10 < fenn> yes
14:11 < nsh> if only fatally
14:11 < nsh> :)
14:11 < fenn> most of the world highly values classical logic
14:12 < fenn> there is a bit of a culture war on, sorry if you are caught in the crossfire
14:12 < fenn> none of us asked to participate
14:13 < nsh> most of the world hasn't studied classical logic
14:13 < fenn> that's fine, they still use it
14:14 < nsh> predominantly to effect their own extinction :)
14:15 < docl> am mostly thinking about this (or something similar), just bigger so we can exploit dna's self replication. should still be waaay better than semiconductor fabs. https://twitter.com/philipturnerar/status/1720988930999234954
14:17  * fenn reads words on a computer about how computers are bad
14:18 < fenn> so i never bothered to understand "accelerationism" and the various flavors and offshoots. is there anything useful there?
14:18 < nsh> sometimes people even use newspapers to write about newspapers are bad
14:19 < nsh> or punish you with american friends acting on similar principles
14:19 < nsh> :)
14:19 < nsh> *being
14:19 < hprmbridge> kanzure> there might be some young people encouraged to build things but so far e/acc seems to be a lot of tweeting
14:19 < hprmbridge> kanzure> and, there is some value to propagating techno-optimism I guess, but it would be nice if they admitted it was more of a larp if they aren't going to do things themselves.
14:20 < docl> the world's smallest nerf gun is my inspiration here :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c2NqlUWZfo&t=907s
14:20 < fenn> it all seems like some make-believe politics larping, yes
14:20 < fenn> "down with Tlön colonialism!"
14:21 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> lots of tweeting, accelerationism itself has some interesting ideas but it's not really that original from the standpoint of transhumanist views on things. A lot of the litrature comes from the Hegel and Marx vein of philosophy as accelerationism was originally a post-marxist project
14:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> even though r/acc exists and there is a link to "neoreactionary" thought now
14:22 < hprmbridge> kanzure> well at least they are willing to be an alternative community to LW.
14:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah and some know what they're talking about, I think they're around on par with your average LWer
14:24 < fenn> i was too lame and feeble and stupid to go to that party thing
14:24 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Well i'm in another country so don't feel bad, none of the cool tech bullshit seems to touch the UK lol
14:25 < fenn> on account of sleep deprivation, and then for unknown reasons stayed up until 4 am trying to find a color quantization algorithm that apparently doesn't exist
14:26 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> sad, is there a reason it didn't?
14:27 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I hope it matures from a twitter LARP, I saw one p2p network project which isn't very inspiring it uses a http as a transport but atleast it's a functional piece of software
14:27 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> but I suggested some ideas on erasure coding content addressed networks which might be interesting to see if it is implemented
14:28 < fenn> historically people mostly valued color quantization for displaying photos on underpowered computers, and then when they got better computers nobody cared about color quantization much anymore. anything intended to be rendered in a limited color palette was designed that way from the start, and the hypothetical use case of taking a photo of a thing and doing stuff to pixel values based on edge
14:28 < fenn> detection etc never took off
14:30 < fenn> i might try autotrace but it would be a very labor intensive workflow
14:31 < docl> eh networking can be good but this looks like a bit of a sensory nightmare tbh https://twitter.com/tszzl/status/1721765473757593820/photo/1
14:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> just wear shades the block blue light lol, you'd blend it still
14:32 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> lol
14:33 < docl> at least nobody used UVC sterilization lamps like the bored ape one
14:33 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:33 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> oh no... they didn't
14:33 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> really?
14:34 < fenn> at the virtual geographic society they had a nice victorian parlor with comfy armchairs and a library full of fake books. i would have preferred real books but the general idea was sound
14:34 < fenn> somehow clubs always have the absolute worst acoustics
14:34 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> God I just looked it up "UV eye burn incident" oh no lol
14:35 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> And this was in the last few days
14:36 < muurkha> did someone have a rave with germicidal lamps again?
14:36 < docl> not the e/acc one, but an unrelated nft one in HK recently, yeah
14:37 < muurkha> alonzoc: what do you think of Merkle's buckling-spring approach?
14:37 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
14:37 < fenn> fortunately/unfortunately deep UVC doesn't penetrate to the nucleus and can't cause DNA damage to eukaryotic cells, it only kills bacteria and viruses
14:37 < fenn> like ~220nm
14:38 < fenn> this could lead people to be confused about which lamps are safe to be around
14:38 < fenn> blue light retinal toxicity is a thing too
14:39 < fenn> next time i will bring my UV laser safety glasses :)
14:40 < fenn> it actually is harder to see in dark environments while wearing them
14:41 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Time for me to sell shorter wavelength bulbs at discount prices to the next NFT event
14:41 < fenn> taking "less is better" to new extremes!
14:41 < muurkha> interesting, because of scotopic blue sensitivity?
14:42 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> it's not one I looked to deeply into but I don't think it's exempt from the disipation issues I was talking about
14:42 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I'm also hestitant to anything that might create high energy phonons
14:42 < fenn> "The main mechanisms of hazard are oxidative stress and mitochondrial apoptosis." apparently
14:42 < fenn> just more energy per photon
14:43 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah UV light is happy to aid oxygen it it's eternal quest to react with random biological molecules
14:44 < fenn> iirc UV doesn't get through the lens of the eye
14:44 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I think a lot of it is blocked otherwise you wouldn't have the weird effect when peoples corneas are removed
14:45 < fenn> yeah that's exactly what i was thinking of https://www.komar.org/faq/colorado-cataract-surgery-crystalens/ultra-violet-color-glow/
14:45 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> oh no sorry after cataract surgery
14:45 < docl> one of my ideas is UVC mirrors in orbit to steer tropical storms/depressions around (by warming the stratosphere). it tends to photolyze oxygen, so it doesn't reach the surface
14:47 < fenn> why not regular mirors
14:48 < docl> well if you heat air up you cause a lot of weather, this would be to steer existing weather more
14:58 < docl> so you could control where hurricanes wind up, and maybe anchor a tropical storm in a specific location to run turbines.
15:00 < muurkha> fenn: so it doesn't reach the surface
15:01 < fenn> it seems like surface level winds would be more effective in steering the troposphere
15:01 < fenn> not making more weather is a good reason though
15:09 < docl> lower atmosphere heating would tend to feed the storm, as I understand it. maybe feeding a safely anchored system to extract energy from makes sense, but I think stratospheric pressure is more ideal for control
16:13 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.neumannconference2023.com/
16:49 < fenn> "A hundred miles east of here in the desert we sometimes engage in highly classified events that cannot be discussed with the unsanctified. But whether or not those events are or aren’t happening, you can watch the seismograph, where you might see some effects, which are unclassified."
16:49 < fenn> "Yes. Spirit is loosed from rock, freed of matter’s tyranny. We open a crack through which light blazes, waking the life in every mote. Once more Ahura Mazda, the wise Lord, defeats Ahriman. A world without this radiance at the heart of things would be nulliparous, without man or mind.
16:49 < fenn> Yet no life awakes save through human mind and will. In the wakened world, agents of will move and collide, cooperate or battle. The great work of consciousness is to form and direct alliances among the agents in oneself and in others, and so to perfect the world. To protect and nurture this spark in the sea of night."
16:50 < L29Ah> ok?
17:12 < kanzure> "Birds do not practice nest building; they are capable of constructing a fully functional nest the first time they attempt it."
17:29 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
17:42 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:33 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:36 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:47 -!- yashgaroth [~ffffffff@2605:a601:a0e9:8d00:b13c:235e:b6a3:fd2e] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:47 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
19:17 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
23:00 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:04 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
--- Log closed Wed Nov 08 00:00:19 2023