--- Log opened Mon Dec 25 00:00:09 2023
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04:03 < hprmbridge> kanzure> who is ashstar
04:48 < L29Ah> nmz787>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1188674763451793429/PXL_20231225_011553966.MP.jpg?ex=659b62a4&is=6588eda4&hm=83cb11bc723c93d40e5cb142169666d929fea155d59ced6cb467243d96627845&
04:48 < L29Ah> https://www.printables.com/model/673646-santas-not-so-little-helper-cookie-cutter
04:49 < L29Ah> Ashstar: sunbathing means accelerating skin aging and increasing skin cancer incidence
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08:06 < docl> kanzure: storyteller type, has lab experience, knows fenn from somewhere see https://gnusha.org/logs/2023-12-05.log
08:07 < docl> probably a fed :P
08:19 < docl> couldn't find robert forward's antimatter primer anywhere online until I checked the fiction section https://www.baen.com/Chapters/0671876864/0671876864___2.htm
08:20 < docl> also found this https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA189218.pdf
08:22 < docl> "It will always require much (10^4 times) more energy to produce antimatter than can be extracted from the annihilation process."
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10:03 < Ashstar> L29Ah, for two hours, with proper lighting, unless melanistically challenged, a few hours is not going to be that harmful
10:04 < Ashstar> it also goes a long ways towards restoring clock rythm
10:05 < Ashstar> but if there are issue, then wear protection, it's the ambient light that counts
10:05 < Ashstar> take vit D/A
10:48 < docl> if you take vitamins, why do you need sunlight?
11:02 < jrayhawk> nitric oxide, secosteroids, collagen/elastin, etc.
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11:03 < jrayhawk> generally where you identify one photochemical effect, you should expect to find more
11:08 < jrayhawk> also most westerners are already bodily failing due to oxidative stress even without sunlight, so they're a catastrophically bad norm to think of sunlight in terms of
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11:21 < nmz787_> jrayhawk: what did you mean "SV model" https://gnusha.org/logs/2012-04-02.log
11:21 < nmz787_> I can't find anything obvious with google search for 'sv model education'
11:21 < jrayhawk> sudbury valley
11:22 < nmz787_> oh, ok, not swami vivekanand
11:23 < jrayhawk> lol
11:27 < jrayhawk> my sister was involved in https://www.villagefreeschool.org/ , for instance, if you wanted to talk to her
11:30 < nmz787_> we were just recalling she was involved in "some school"
11:30 < nmz787_> sure, we'd appreciate a quick call
11:34 < jrayhawk> er, no, i guess it was portland village school she got involved with
11:35 < jrayhawk> much to her chagrin
11:37 < nmz787_> https://largescaleassessmentsineducation.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40536-021-00107-3
11:37 < nmz787_> .title
11:37 < EmmyNoether> Explaining Waldorf students’ high motivation but moderate achievement in science: is inquiry-based science education the key? | Large-scale Assessments in Education | Full Text
11:38 < docl> jrayhawk: was expecting something like that, thanks for giving specific examples
11:38 < nmz787_> jrayhawk: that appears to be a waldorf-ish charter school, so we'd still appreciate a call. We just started looking at Waldorf stuff, including the chat logs here
12:33 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Happy Newtonmas, everyone.
12:35  * L29Ah have printed a few tensile strength specimens for newtonmas
12:38 < hprmbridge> fodagut> docl: building stuff is on topic though right? I'm reframing some of the cryptocurrency work I've done in the last 12 years into a Georgist context, and could use the opinion of others. Though maybe we ought to take that discussion offline
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12:43  * L29Ah is a georgist-turned-ancap
12:44 < hprmbridge> fodagut> why is the bridge bot talking?
12:44 < L29Ah> mishandling of /me?
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12:48 < hprmbridge> fodagut> Ah, ok. Makes sense.
12:48 < hprmbridge> fodagut> I'll ping you guys when there's something to look at, hopefully soonish.
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13:26 < docl> @fodagut whups I missed who I was talking to. ok so there's one other than you into georgism that I'm aware of, @mattparlmer. I'm happy to discuss crypto georgism, of course
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14:01  * fenn tries out the new /me string format
14:02 < fenn> oh dear
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14:03  * L29Ah increases his Schwarzschild radius
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14:03  * fenn does it again
14:03 < fenn> is that more clear that it's an emote?
14:03 < docl> yes
14:04 < docl> to those familiar with irc anyway
14:09 < hprmbridge> kanzure> should I enable nickname tagging? it's disabled right now...
14:20 < jrayhawk> fodagut: maaku has been working on similar macroeconomics/incentives in crypto for a while and might have relevant things to say http://freico.in/
14:25 < hprmbridge> nmz787> From discord to irc? That'd be helpful I think
14:27 < hprmbridge> kanzure> no, other way
14:34 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Either way bridge improvements are a step forward
14:38 < hprmbridge> fodagut> jrayhawk: I'm maaku, via Discord 🙂
14:38 < hprmbridge> fodagut> docl: ah right, I remember talking to Matt at kanzure's place about georgism
14:45 < hprmbridge> fodagut> .title https://dev.tillitis.se/intro/
14:45 < hprmbridge> fodagut> "The Tillitis TKey is a small computer in a USB stick form factor that can run small device applications that are loaded onto it. The purpose of the TKey is to be a secure environment for applications that provide some kind of security function."
14:47 < jrayhawk> oh
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16:14 < fenn> gonna have to fix death first if you want to make time preference irrational
17:51 < Ashstar> it has a lot of cross traffic
17:52 < Ashstar> <hprmbridge> fodagut> why is the bridge bot talking?
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18:02 < hprmbridge> fodagut> Ashstar: it's been fixed, but bridgebot was bridging over /me commands as unadorned statements. looked like someone was talking to me via the hprmbridge account.
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18:18 < Ashstar> ic
18:18 < Ashstar> fix death, fenn?
18:19 < Ashstar> explain that idea?
18:21 < Ashstar> our bodies are constantly shuffling off cells
18:21 < Ashstar> it is part of renewal
18:22 < Ashstar> cancer happens when cells lose that ability to limit cell growth
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18:23 < docl> replace the nucleus with a computer and you can solve that in software
18:26 < Ashstar> ok
18:26 < Ashstar> sounds cool
18:31 < docl> it's a bit of a job. rna synthesizers and ribosome production included of course. if cancer were the only concern we could just focus on curing that, but biology is messy so there could be a lot of trial and error before we really get indefinite life extension
18:39 < hprmbridge> fodagut> docl: why put an RNA synthesizer in every cell? centralize manufacturing in the tissue, and then just ship the mRNA to cells as needed.
18:46 < hprmbridge> kanzure> or replace biology with solid state alternatives... if you can do most then might as well do it all.
18:51 < docl> maybe if you can store RNA without it hydrolizing. hmm, there's probably a way to do that
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19:01 < fenn> approach 1) understand aging and route around it with interventions
19:01 < fenn> approach 2) scan the brain at sufficiently high resolution that people feel a sense of identity with the scan
19:03 < fenn> we don't know when we will die. that uncertainty drives time preference. you might not be around to enjoy the fruits of your long term investment
19:06 < fenn> in a score-keeping scenario where we consider enjoying things while alive to be positive utility, if we average the expected utility over possible futures where we're alive or dead, a strategy that results in having stuff sooner than later will end up with higher utility
19:08 < fenn> if we live significantly longer through interventions, the likelihood of being dead when the investment vests is lower
19:32 < Ashstar> yet we seldom are able to limit our caloric intake, or discipline ourselves to avoid certain things like the hepatotoxin alcohol
19:33 < Ashstar> we jam our cell's mechanisms up with our overconsumption
19:35 < Ashstar> if we don't become masters over our appetites, we should not think technology will solve our problems anymore than inventing auto robot ass whippers
19:36 < Ashstar> while we perpetually do nothing
19:41 < docl> skinny teetotalers age and die just as surely, there's no justice in it.
19:41 < Ashstar> part of our ability to extend life, or at least have good quality of life, ties in to living healthy
19:43 < Ashstar> we do a lot of destructive activities, high stressors, high food consumption, high alcohol
19:43 < Ashstar> it's a wonder we live so long
19:43 < Ashstar> as it is
19:43 < docl> living healthy requires biology that's not trying to kill you
19:44 < Ashstar> wha
19:44 < docl> if you're born with progeria, can you live healthy?
19:44 < Ashstar> if you start with good health, there is a lot one can do to maximize it
19:44 < Ashstar> oh
19:44 < docl> you can get cancer in your teens. it's luck, not justice
19:45 < Ashstar> well, Hutchingson's Progeria
19:45 < Ashstar> is a awful disease
19:46 < Ashstar> Im saying, if you are not born with that
19:46 < docl> if you're "healthy" in your 90s you'll still die. it can take longer if you manage your health factors and you can suffer less, but it's still a fatal condition
19:46 < Ashstar> or other genetic issues
19:46 < docl> everyone is born with "evolution didn't bother making you immortal"
19:47 < docl> because evolution wasn't smart enough to find a better workaround for cancer apparently
19:47 < docl> except in bowhead whales, but they still die at 250 or so
19:48 < Ashstar> meanwhile, I think there is a lot we can do by diet, exercise and occasional fasts
19:49 < Ashstar> proper supplements
19:50 < docl> all that's stuff you could solve biomolecularly if you had the tech
19:51 < docl> it's worth doing, sure
19:58 < fenn> it's 10%
20:02 < Ashstar> of what
20:02 < fenn> exercise, healthy diet, all the best interventions together, won't extend your life more than 10%
20:03 < Ashstar> perhaps, that is why you need to have some periods of caloric restriction
20:03 < docl> think of the scale of it. 100,000 people dying per day. they aren't choosing that fate, it's just that biology doesn't care. you need hardcore tech interventions to prevent that, not diet and exercise.
20:03 < fenn> hence why i phrased it as "if we live significantly longer" - 10% is within the variance of normal lifespan already
20:03 < Ashstar> it allows our bodies to reset
20:04 < Ashstar> scavange up a lot of stuff
20:04 < Ashstar> if we did 3 days a month, fasts
20:05 < docl> fasting doesn't reset the biological clock to the young state. people have tried these things, died anyway.
20:05 < fenn> it works better in worms and mice, and it's worth looking into why there's a difference
20:10 < Ashstar> it is
20:10 < Ashstar> seriously
20:10 < Ashstar> a sort of reset
20:11 < Ashstar> as long as one doesn't consider fasting on booze
20:14 < docl> the problem is, it's spaghetti code. not written with a reset function. and it seems to happen differently in different organisms. the default aging route for yeast is one of two very different things, and you can extend its lifespan by 82% by switching between them
20:14 < docl> https://www.genengnews.com/news/lifespan-extension-record-set-in-yeast-cells-using-synthetic-gene-oscillator/
20:14 < docl> one of those is nucleolus aging. apparently the stress of making ribosomes factors in
20:16 < docl> or so I assume, since that's what the nucleolus does (respond to stress and make ribosomes). in yeast it crumbles in aging if that pathway is taken. alternately, the mitochondria go bad
20:19 < Ashstar> all I am saying to you all, is try it
20:20 < Ashstar> if your serious, and wish to see if you can or will feel a renewal, afterwards, try it
20:21 < Ashstar> make sure you got your gut cleaned out as much as possible
20:21 < Ashstar> there are stuff you do not wish to reabsorb from it
20:22 < Ashstar> our bodies are amazing
20:22 < Ashstar> we have a huge capacity to reset our homeostasis
20:23 < Ashstar> we just jam it up
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22:26 < fenn> someone tell a16z to fund this developer who has slowly been writing an OpenCL backend for torch http://blog.dlprimitives.org/page/1
22:29 < fenn> we can't be having "GPUs are fire" music videos, and also be unable to use half of the GPUs for the fun things
22:33 < fenn> overview of the situation https://github.com/pytorch/pytorch/issues/488#issuecomment-1189088260
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23:47 < hprmbridge> fodagut> OpenCL is dying tho
--- Log closed Tue Dec 26 00:00:10 2023