--- Log opened Thu Dec 28 00:00:12 2023
00:02 < jrayhawk> If so, it's in a trivial way, at least. PNA has plenty of other random binding affinities that piss off epithelial and endothelial cells.
00:03 < fenn> somehow i jumped from integrin and VCAM-1 in this paper, to CXCR3 and zonulin https://academic.oup.com/carcin/article/42/8/1079/6315265
00:04 < fenn> i'm very much not fluent in all these alphabet soups
00:05 < fenn> either that or i fell through a time portal, which seems to be happening at a steady rate
00:09 < fenn> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y
00:09 < EmmyNoether> The Inner Life of the Cell Animation - YouTube
00:10 < fenn> this video came up because it illustrates adhesion proteins and cellular junction permeability for immune cells
00:11 < jrayhawk> i haven't seen anyone explain how PNA slips past intestinal enterocytes so easily, so some zonulin-based paracellular pathway seems as good as any other hypothesis
00:12 < fenn> yeah, somehow it's getting into the blood immediately
00:13 < fenn> i'll pass your gratitude back to mirror-universe jrayhawk if i get the chance
00:14 < fenn> you mean paracrine right?
00:15 < jrayhawk> uh... typically, but not necessarily...?
00:16 < jrayhawk> paracellular as in going between cells rather than through them (intracellular)
00:18 < fenn> oh it's a thing, thanks
00:38 < jrayhawk> Ashstar: gliadin activating zonulin via CXCR3 is seemingly universal in humans. https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/document?repid=rep1&type=pdf&doi=d6fd9764dff3543f57446572bff92e9aa9da667e "Zonulin and its regulation of intestinal barrier function: the biological door to inflammation, autoimmunity, and cancer"
01:06 < jrayhawk> which helps explain why grain-exclusion RCTs show general improvements to metabolism, immunology, and cognition https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/PMC6053098/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25661189 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28440046 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24473459 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17522610 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23414424 
01:06 < jrayhawk> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23890471 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25828624 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25304296 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27216013 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27235022 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27223304 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118562 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19604407 
01:06 < jrayhawk> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17583796 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26003334 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26786351 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33844651/
01:18 < jrayhawk> plus single-arm stuff https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24476345 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28394724 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/6373464 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29173519 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28858071 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35811518 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37355891
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03:11 < hprmbridge> Eli> That's interesting. Are we just concerned about acute aflotoxin exposure? Is chronic low level aflotoxin exposure an issue or just hormetic?
03:12 < muurkha> chronic low-level aflatoxin exposure is known to be one of the most important avoidable environmental risk factors for cancer
03:12 < muurkha> according to the world cancer research fund
03:15 < hprmbridge> Eli> TIL. My a priori bias would have been that our ancestors ate nuts whenever possible. But the paper suggests that you are less likely to get aflatoxin when the peanuts haven't been processed. So, maybe just stick to non-processed nuts I suppose?
03:16 < L29Ah> muurkha: wasn't it smoke?
03:20 < L29Ah> liver cancer risk is tiny compared to lung (primarily from smoking) and GI (likely from shitty food) cancers, and seems like majority of liver cancers are from hepatitis, and the majority of the remaining cases are from ethanol
03:20 < L29Ah> // https://www.iccp-portal.org/system/files/resources/IARC%20World%20Cancer%20Report%202020.pdf
03:30 < muurkha> L29Ah: smoke?
03:30 < muurkha> Eli: you are more likely to notice that your peanuts are moldy when you crack the shell open than when they are mixed into peanut butter, yes
03:41 < hprmbridge> Eli> From what I'm reading, it seems like combining Hepatitis with afltoxin has a massively greater impact on liver cancer than just aflatoxin alone. And the major proximate causes of liver cancer seem to be Hepatitis and drinking. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK559177/
03:42 < hprmbridge> Eli>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1189896113919107144/image.png?ex=659fd41c&is=658d5f1c&hm=22df4aee7afc1791399c17901931286d02f2e61be993f82ccc97b2112309d631&
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08:26 < L29Ah> how to buy ₿ in usa?
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08:33 < hprmbridge> nmz787> L29ah whatever you said between "buy" and "in USA" was garbled
08:35 < L29Ah> bitcoin
08:38 < hprmbridge> nmz787> ATMs have bitcoin
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10:38 < L29Ah> > The average fees tend to be between 13%-15%. 
10:38 < L29Ah> :O
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14:10 < Ashstar> what is bitcoin going for these days?
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15:05 < docl> 42kUSD
15:10 < hprmbridge> kanzure> anyone want to reply in a comment pointing to our work?  https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/JEhW3HDMKzekDShva/significantly-enhancing-adult-intelligence-with-gene-editing
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15:29 < fenn> "China's refreshed export ban list also added cell cloning and gene editing tech intended for human use for the first time."
15:29 < hprmbridge> kanzure> cool let's read their actual export control list
15:29 < fenn> .t http://www.mofcom.gov.cn/zfxxgk/article/gkml/202312/20231203462079.shtml
15:29 < EmmyNoether> 商务部 科技部公告2023年第57号 关于公布《中国禁止出口限制出口技术目录》的公告
15:30 < fenn> oh it's a pdf which makes it annoying to translate
15:32 < hprmbridge> kanzure> our first act of export control shall be the export control of the export control list itself
15:36 < fenn> apparently google translate has never heard of this computer science concept of "memoization"
15:37 < fenn> it's taking a really long time
15:38 < fenn> i never figured out how to run local translation LLMs
15:42 < fenn> "Replication technology of bronze chariots and horses unearthed from the Mausoleum of the First Emperor of Qin, etc."
15:42 < fenn> hmm
15:42 < fenn> preparing for post-nuclear-war i suppose
15:43 < fenn> i translated it the dumb way, semi-manually: https://fennetic.net/irc/china_export_control_list_20231221153855374.en.txt
15:45 < fenn> "Ethically controversial and may cause significant harm, it is used to Human germ cells (i.e. embryonic cells) that contain genetic material cells, egg cells, sperm cells) Editing technology"
15:45 < fenn> welp. looks like they've swallowed the poison
15:58 < fenn> if i'm reading this right, they ban the export of seeds
16:04 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Artificial breeding technology of Hepu mitten crab" hmm
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16:08 < fenn> yeah they seem big on agricultural biotech
16:08 < fenn> there's quite a lot on this list overall
16:13 < fenn> better and worse formatting at the same time https://fennetic-net.translate.goog/irc/china_export_control_list_20231221153855374.html?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US
16:15 < hprmbridge> yashgaroth> lmao that silkworms are the first thing on there. China still big mad about the byzantines stealing silkworms 1500 years ago
16:20 < hprmbridge> yashgaroth> ah I see paper and gunpowder are right after silkworms. Seems petty to list them all at the top to remind people those came from china
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16:22 < fenn> is this a list of every chinese invention? :D
16:28 < Ashstar> but we all came out of Africa, originally
16:36 < Ashstar> Africa was where upright walking allowed us to use our hands, invent stuff
16:37 < fenn> what do you think ashstar? https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/status/1529048906385874944
16:38 < fenn> is this a chinese invention?
16:48 < Ashstar> all stuff that has other origins, except the rocket idea
16:49 < Ashstar> maybe some other technical modifications
16:49 < Ashstar> of already in use systems
16:50 < Ashstar> so it seems
16:52 < Ashstar> looks like SpaceX legs
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18:12 < muurkha> https://simplifier.neocities.org/ has added some notes on diy casting in zinc/aluminum alloys
18:14 < muurkha> haha, this is hilarious, fenn
18:16 < muurkha> there are some things in there I haven't heard of before
18:16 < muurkha> Tellurium dioxide (TeO2) and aluminum molybdate [Al2(MoO4)3] single crystal growth technology and substrate finishing technology 
18:16 < muurkha> also bismuth silicate and bismuth germanate
18:18 < muurkha> I wonder if "bamboo reinforced aluminum composite" is a mistranslation or if they're really reinforcing aluminum with bamboo
18:21 < hprmbridge> kanzure> sapien intelligence purity test
18:22 < fenn> funny how interests seem to go together https://simplifier.neocities.org/4x4
18:23 < fenn> i think i'd splurge on the 4x6
18:23 < muurkha> you will probably be interested in this comment i just wrote then
18:24 < muurkha> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38801049
18:31 < fenn> ok 3x5 looks readable enough
18:37 < fenn> here's a reasonably complete 4x6 font with no "cheating" and it's public domain https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/1685976/iwen
18:39 < fenn> i also thought this one was quite readable and has a lighter look, but it's CC-BY and cheats a little https://fontstruct.com/fontstructions/show/1948578/basic4
18:40 < fenn> (also 4x6 ish)
18:41 < fenn> now someone just needs to write a latex to pixel font equation renderer so we can backup the knowledge on nanoindented ribbons
18:43 < Ashstar> bamboo, hm well it is cellulose, lignin, it is a carbon composit
18:44 < fenn> bamboo aluminum composites was on that list
18:44 < fenn> oh derp nm
18:44 < fenn> i saw some articles about bamboo ash metal matrix composites
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18:48 < Ashstar> hm
18:50 < muurkha> that's quite an elaborate 4×6 font, very nice
18:50 < muurkha> fenn: yeah?
19:08 < fenn> tbh i don't know what CC-BY entails for a font
19:16 < fenn> "please do not post this article to hacker news"
19:24 < fenn> hershey fonts has a weird license where you can freely distribute them in any format EXCEPT the format they were originally distributed in
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20:51 < fenn> the teleology of coffee-drinking https://www.antipope.org/charlie/fiction/coffee.html
20:54 < Ashstar> Teaology of tea 
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21:32 < muurkha> fenn: at least in the US the letterforms themselves are not copyrightable, though the "program" that produces them is
--- Log closed Fri Dec 29 00:00:13 2023