--- Log opened Sat Dec 30 00:00:14 2023
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09:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> is there a site that shows a diff all export control lists from different nations?
09:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1190710726902435981/image0.jpg?ex=65a2cac7&is=659055c7&hm=527c95fe106bf7a7a6b979e0599b3ce40899e45f3c7627f0e504da3c64630864&
09:43 < L29Ah> https://www.roguetemple.com/z/hyper/prairie-thumb.png
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11:52 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Not to my knowledge. You'd quickly run into classification problems. The closest thing that comes to mind is here.
11:52 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> https://discover.dtic.mil/ctalist/
11:53 < hprmbridge> kanzure> some of the export control lists are public
11:53 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Basically junk, USA only, and limited public access.
11:55 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Just off the top of my head answer, you probably would get better from someone with State Dept. experience, which I have not got. This however suggests local university might know.
11:55 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> https://www.research.ucf.edu/exportcontrol/countries.html
11:57 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> And that would be HyperRouge, which just had an update this week to version 13.
11:57 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Anyway, can ask around at work next week.
12:03 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> I doubt you'd get a straightforward comparison anyway. IANAL, but I think you get the domestic list from the CFR. I don't know what the comparable source would be for any other nation. Perhaps ask someone from Commerce Department or State Department?
12:04 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Geez...
12:04 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> I really did just say "go to the government and see if they can help you."
12:04 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> There's a resolution for 2024: do that less.
12:09 < hprmbridge> kanzure> did you see the chinese list in the recent backlog?
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14:09 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/30/ai-debate-culture-clash-dc-silicon-valley-00133323
15:05 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> is this the e/acc discord?
15:09 < hprmbridge> kanzure> we are from before e/acc, more exciting
15:10 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> Awesome!
15:10 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> came here from Lex Fridman podcast
15:10 < TMA> what is e/acc?
15:13 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> Effective Accelerationism
15:19 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> No, I did not.
15:19 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Please discount my above statements according to the ignorance I've just admitted.
15:19 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> Anyone here electromagnetic bio-chip implants and nano tech/machines inside their body too?
15:21  * L29Ah runs ribosomes inside his body
15:21 < TMA> sure. according to popular conspiracy theory anybody who had COVID vaccine
15:24 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> I got a electromagnetic high-frequency 13.56 mhz xsiid and low frequency 125 khz indala/ xem inside my body and some nanotech/machines that heals deep/injuries in days etc. I'm looking for people who can change the UID of a 13.56 mhz bio-chip implants since I use this for access-control
15:24 < TMA> I doubt the utility of currently available implants. [pacemakers, cochlear implants &c. notwithstanding - but those are not useful for general population]
15:26 < L29Ah> i was planning to make a 125k/13M implant but the rf design demotivated me, and the existing ones are too proprietary to make sense to implant
15:26 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Found it.
15:26 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> from 2023-12-28
15:26 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Can't make much of it, and nothing sans google translate.
15:26 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> pacemakers, cochlear implants is useful to general population pacemaker probably can double the pump of your heart/blood in the body while cochlear is like a earbuds increase your hearing at a quite place very useful for field ops etc.
15:31 < TMA> michaelinzo: unless there is something really wrong with your heart, you don't want to change your heart pace artificially.
15:40 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> I agree but athlete's like me would want a second heart, etc. more stamina would be awesome also it can do blood doping for me etc. just an idea
15:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> did lex mention us?
15:41 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> he didn't but e/acc have you guys in its website
15:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> oh weird
15:42 < hprmbridge> kanzure> where?
15:43 < hprmbridge> kanzure> ah, https://www.effectiveacceleration.org/posts/pfBhiWrJyzRktM8ZL/building-a-transhumanist-future
15:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> yeah hopefully implants will improve a bunch more
15:44 < hprmbridge> kanzure> brain implants continue to be low bandwidth. hopefully neuralink will change all that and make a common high bandwidth interface.
15:45 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> there high-bandwith non-invasive from emotiv and neurable saw a girl twitch streamer there playing dark souls with her mind
15:46 < hprmbridge> michaelinzo> also VR BCI too I think it's neurable
15:53 < muurkha> you don't need high bandwidth to play dark souls, just low latency
15:54 < fenn> i'm not ready for a lex-dotting
16:31 < Ashstar> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S187350611300161X
16:33 < Ashstar> part of the research n development I worked on when I was running the material science thin film lab was cell based neurosensor development system
16:34 < Ashstar> s
16:34 < Ashstar> we are making lots of advances since then
16:35 < Ashstar> fascinating stuff
16:37 < Ashstar> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/46010421_Cell-based_biosensors_Current_trends_of_the_development
16:52 < fenn> some ancient dirt on the EA movement (small potatoes i guess) https://nitter.net/xriskology/status/1579832304503259136
16:57 < fenn> imagine being a "longtermist" and saying "you have 80,000 hours in your career (and then you die)" and not even try to advocate for making that number go up
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17:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> in other words, it was eliezer
17:05 < fenn> yes
17:05 < fenn> i wasn't even aware there were people reading "superintelligence" that did not know that
17:06 < fenn> i was more surprised that will macaskill didn't actually found EA
17:07 < hprmbridge> bootstrap3141> It doesn’t sound like something that was really founded at least in a traditional sense. It seems like more of a Schelling point.
17:11 < fenn> the tyranny of structurelessness
17:12 < fenn> if you have an official power structure, then it's legible and vulnerable
17:12 < hprmbridge> kanzure> wasn't jrayhawk saying it wasn't eliezer
17:12 < hprmbridge> kanzure> or who was that?
17:13 < fenn> more context please
17:13 < hprmbridge> kanzure> EA
17:14 < fenn> "superintelligence" is very clearly just a reformatting of voluminous piles of lesswrong-o-sphere blog and forum posts
17:15 < fenn> EA in general has a different feel, less nerdy, more sociopathic
17:15 < hprmbridge> kanzure> just like kurzweil "the singularity is near" was an obvious repackaging of the extropian mailing list
17:15 < hprmbridge> kanzure> or WTA rather
17:15 < fenn> some have seen EA's recent overwhelming obsession with AI safety as EA being invaded by yudkowskians
17:21 < fenn> if a parasite is parasitized, who is doing the parasitizing?
17:21 < fenn> oh no, i'm becoming one of them
17:21 < fenn> someone please pull the worms out before it's too late
17:25 < fenn> but no i don't agree that EA is just a schelling point. there are individuals and organizations taking coordinated strategic action in a very intentional way
17:33 < jrayhawk> peter singer beat them all to quantified consequentialist humanist utilitarianism by decades
17:33  * L29Ah is not dying in a very intentional way
17:33 < jrayhawk> just a pity it was negative utilitarianism
17:36 < L29Ah> i'd argue that EA is an entity from a quite small set of easily and strict-ishly defined values of the judeo-christian/humanist culture
17:37 < L29Ah> and yudkowskians just love simple strict-ish concepts
18:01 < muurkha> for anyone else who is confused, "EA" in the above chat seems to (mostly?) refer to "effective altruism", not "effective accelerationism"
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18:09 < jrayhawk> kanzure: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6SGqkCgHuNr7d4yJm/thoughts-on-the-singularity-institute-si SIAI spent years trying and failing to get into Givewell's good graces
18:10 < jrayhawk> which culminated into muelhauser positioning himself to take over Givewell in IIRC 2015
18:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> hrm
18:45 < fenn> wei dai wrote:
18:45 < fenn> "What I'm afraid of is that a design will be shown to be safe, and then it turns out that the proof is wrong, or the formalization of the notion of "safety" used by the proof is wrong. This kind of thing happens a lot in cryptography, if you replace "safety" with "security". These mistakes are still occurring today, even after decades of research into how to do such proofs and what the relevant
18:45 < fenn> formalizations are. From where I'm sitting, proving an AGI design Friendly seems even more difficult and error-prone than proving a crypto scheme secure..."
18:46 < fenn> we knew this from the beginning and nothing has changed
18:46 < fenn> so why bother
18:48 < fenn> (note, this was a long time ago)
18:54 < hprmbridge> kanzure> did you see his messages to me on twitter
19:01 < fenn> "stop criticizing my cult, i've been a member since before it was a thing, and stop it" (?)
19:09 < fenn> jeez holden karnofsky enumerated in 2012 basically every critique i had of SIAI and yudkowskianism
19:10 < fenn> especially, "A scenario in which a set of people is ready to unleash an all-powerful being to maximize some parameter in the world, based solely on their initial confidence in their own extrapolations of the consequences of doing so, seems like a scenario that is overwhelmingly likely to result in a bad outcome. It comes down to placing the world's largest bet on a highly complex theory - with no
19:10 < fenn> experimentation to test the theory first."
19:12 < fenn> fortunately SIAI didn't have a magical all-powerful being to unleash
19:14 < fenn> when did SIAI flop to "AI is dangerous and bad"? all i remember from the time was uncritical breathless enthusiasm for ushering in the singularity as soon as reasonably possible
19:14 < fenn> "abundance studies" etc
19:15 < hprmbridge> kanzure> after eliezer gave up on building sysop
19:16 < fenn> what year was that?
19:16 < hprmbridge> kanzure> maybe 2003?
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19:16 < hprmbridge> kanzure> or the thiel comment about stopping the financing because they switched to believing no solution available?
19:17 < fenn> yehuda yudkowsky died in 2004
19:22 < fenn> "in 2005 the institute moved to Silicon Valley and began to focus on ways to identify and manage those risks," so basically from the beginning
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20:00 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://orionmagazine.org/article/interstitium-scientific-discovery-anatomy/
20:01 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Scientists' recent discovery of a "new" part of the human body, the interstitium, is an invitation to think differently about our relationship with the world at large
20:01 < hprmbridge> nmz787> This essay is a companion piece to an episode of Radiolab, titled The Interstitium. You don’t need to have heard it for this essay to make sense, but listening to it will no doubt enrich your understanding.
20:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Here's the radiolab listen link https://link.chtbl.com/elhTn8sm
20:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> """IN 2018, SCIENTISTS discovered a new organ (?) in the human body. You’d think after centuries of cutting ourselves open, we’d know the intimate details of the structures within us by now. Strangely, this body part wasn’t missed because it was invisible; it was overlooked because of what our belief systems wouldn’t let us perceive."""
20:23 < fenn> "could we define a kind of Turing test for AI girlfriends where any man will choose one over a real woman, thereby guaranteeing human extinction ?
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20:43 < hprmbridge> kanzure> well it's not like we do that many scientific explorations of dead bodies, do you have any concept of how hard it is to acquire dead human bodies
20:44 < fenn> the pre-lympatic system is common knowledge in chinese medicine
20:45 < fenn> maybe nobody realized that "science didn't know"
20:48 < fenn> "The total fluid volume of the interstitium during health is about 20% of body weight"
20:48 < fenn> i mean come on, really
21:01 < fenn> stupid wikipedia
21:01 < fenn> lately every time i interact with it i get pissed off
22:02 < docl> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyjcRNJBk-s // DIY 4000F (2200C) refractory glue using waterglass and garden lime
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--- Log closed Sun Dec 31 00:00:15 2023