--- Log opened Mon Jan 01 00:00:16 2024
00:01 < muurkha> even aluminum is probably refractory enough for charcoal making
00:02 < muurkha> depending on how consistent your temperature is
00:05 < muurkha> I think charcoal will probably crumble over a few heating and cooling cycles if you try to make a kiln out of it
00:17 < docl> well it needs to be processed into solid blocks first before we can think of it as graphite bricks, I'm thinking. not sure starch is really enough here. could soak in a hydrocarbon solvent and drive off the hydrogen a few times maybe.
00:20 < docl> perhaps e.g. ethanol can work for this
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00:32 < fenn> heating charcoal => carbon monoxide
00:33 < fenn> aluminum will melt in most fires
00:33 < fenn> it gets fragile and breaks long before that
00:33 < muurkha> solid blocks of charcoal are not graphite
00:35 < fenn> one can buy inexpensive graphite crucibles; why not just use that as the furnace lining
00:35 < muurkha> carbon monoxide can be a product of heating charcoal, depending on circumstances.  it will be abundant if you heat it in steam
00:35 < fenn> also this whole project seems insane
00:36 < muurkha> that's good, that's necessary but not sufficient for it to be a good idea
00:36 < fenn> we want fused quartz. why? because it's expensive. it's expensive, so let's make it ourselves. it turns out making expensive things is sometimes difficult!
00:38 < fenn> how about just making your tube furnace out of clay, or mullite, or some other obtanium
00:39 < fenn> 316 has a very high working temperature
00:39 < muurkha> haha no
00:39 < muurkha> I mean I guess it depends on the temperature range you are shooting for
00:39 < fenn> "continuous use up to 927 °C in air"
00:39 < muurkha> yeah
00:40 < fenn> it's not like it melts at 928 C, these numbers are for structural applications
00:40 < muurkha> my experience is that common grades of stainless turn to pure oxide in hours at 1040 degrees
00:41 < muurkha> but sure, it depends on what temperature range you are shooting for
00:42 < muurkha> if 900 degrees is fine then sure you can just use stainless if it doesn't react with whatever you're doing.  and there are clays that can handle 1400 degrees
00:42 < fenn> some CVD process around 1000C i guess
00:43 < muurkha> 'around 1000' is a wide range
00:43 < fenn> i dunno, not my project
00:44 < muurkha> reactions that happen in a week at 950 degrees happen in 10 minutes at 1050 degrees
00:45 < muurkha> mullite alone, like sand, isn't a structural material.  you need a cement to make things out of it.  kaolin, say, or calcium aluminate, or waterglass
00:45 < fenn> mullite is some kind of blend of things with different melting points that have been sintered together
00:46 < fenn> .wik mullite
00:46 < muurkha> it very much is not
00:46 < EmmyNoether> "Mullite or porcelainite is a rare silicate mineral formed during contact metamorphism of clay minerals. It can form two stoichiometric forms: 3Al2O32SiO2 or 2Al2O3 SiO2." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mullite
00:46 < fenn> hmm
00:46 < fenn> .wik cordierite
00:46 < EmmyNoether> "Cordierite (mineralogy) or iolite (gemology) is a magnesium iron aluminium cyclosilicate. Iron is almost always present and a solid solution exists between Mg-rich cordierite and Fe-rich sekaninaite with a series formula: (Mg,Fe)2Al3(Si5AlO18) to (Fe,Mg)2Al3(Si5AlO18)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordierite
00:47 < muurkha> note that the mullite page lists its crystal structure
00:48 < muurkha> dipyramidal with unit cell a = 7.5785(6) Å, b = 7.6817(7) Å, c = 2.8864(3) Å; Z = 1
00:48 < muurkha> it would be harder to be far from "some kind of blend of things with different melting points that have been sintered together"
00:49 < muurkha> I mean, you can *make* mullite by reacting reagents that have different melting points
00:49 < fenn> ok so there's some interesting stuff going on there
00:49 < muurkha> but it's a mineral with a well-defined crystal structure and an almost-well-defined stoichiometry
00:50 < fenn> "there are two common morphologies for mullite. One is a platelet shape with low aspect ratio and the second is a needle shape with high aspect ratio. If the needle shape mullite can form in a ceramic body during sintering, it has an effect on both the mechanical and physical properties by increasing the mechanical strength and thermal shock resistance. ... needle shape mullite forms at about 1400 °C 
00:50 < fenn> and the needles will interlock. This mechanical interlocking contributes to the high mechanical strength of porcelain."
00:50 < muurkha> yeah, that's a question of crystal habit, though
00:54 < muurkha> it's puzzling that there are two different stoichiometries with the same melting point of 1840 degrees and the same unit cell, tho
00:55 < muurkha> it's not a simple site substitution like the fayalite/forsterite spectrum either, or substitution of hafnium in zircons
00:55 < muurkha> something is fishy!
00:56 < fenn> vainamoinen constructed a harp out of fish bones
00:58 < fenn> https://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/kalevala.htm
00:58 < muurkha> that's a scurrilous lie concocted by that rascal Lönnrot
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13:25 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Juri_ test
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14:40 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "golden age of dystopian fiction" https://twitter.com/LouisAnslow/status/1741812989282369606
15:07 < juri_> hprmbridge: i see you, but i think we were testing something else. :)
15:08 < juri_> gah. nmz787, even. ;)
15:36 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "whole brain emulation roadmap project manager" job opening https://twitter.com/foresightinst/status/1741957643135004681
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16:17 < Ashstar> that's not what I meant
16:17 < Ashstar> oops
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16:58 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=13c7e5f8 Bryan Bishop: add artificial wombs >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/hplusroadmap/
17:00 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=41fa666f Bryan Bishop: add link >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/hplusroadmap/
17:02 < kanzure> https://jeremiahengland.substack.com/p/a-proposal-for-growing-and-artificial
17:02 < kanzure> "Maintenance of pig brain function under extracorporeal pulsatile circulatory control (EPCC)" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-39344-7
17:03 < kanzure> "Transplantation of a human liver following 3 days of ex situ normothermic preservation" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-022-01354-7
17:04 < kanzure> https://www.transmedics.com/ocs-hcp/
17:07 < Ashstar> NMP-L tech is cool
17:07 < Ashstar> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28333889/
17:07 < kanzure> .m
17:07 < kanzure> .title
17:07 < EmmyNoether> Normothermic ex-situ liver preservation: the new gold standard - PubMed
17:15 < kanzure> "Ectogenesis: is there a constitutional right to substrate-independent wombs?" https://digitalcommons.law.umaryland.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1348&context=rrgc by mrs. patri friedman brit benjamin
17:17 < kanzure> and i guess this is her interview https://youtu.be/qFPu18hDg5w?si=YN7iPsaTOgR9yaL7
17:17 < Ashstar> lol
17:18 < Ashstar> amg
17:18 < Ashstar> will miss that colosterum
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17:26 < kanzure> 5e0a137519fb6edb713794780e415b121daa49bd171417e759a58d0e8e192cd0 https://gnusha.org/logs/archives/hplusroadmap-logs.2024-01-01.tar.gz
17:27 < kanzure> d9a5e668980e33222a92a2948f72a0114692bcc14817feaaff18f335bddab2c5 https://gnusha.org/logs/archives/hplusroadmap-timestamps.2024-01-01.tar.gz
17:36 < Ashstar> yup, that's the one
17:37 < Ashstar> well, they had a pic of Earth and were looking through their viewer
17:52 < hprmbridge> kanzure> there have been women with multiple uteruses with simultaneous pregnancies (not twins), you can probably hook these up in serial or parallel and scale calorie intake
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18:06 < Ashstar> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/855169139450052629/1191098161960337479/IMG_1807.jpg?ex=65a4339b&is=6591be9b&hm=dd7656079ddc97a08fce811945b2d73bd235244453340b3d5a8d3eb86fc68faa&
18:06 < Ashstar> oops
18:08 < Ashstar> https://stanfordmag.org/contents/falling-for-psychedelics?fbclid=IwAR34XUrcLpz0edgNrzXR8yvdvfr-OzWkkcgzcmlkuL7MNpDYFFd6GLCBiVc
18:09 < Ashstar> some interesting research, good to see my alma doing this
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18:55 < Ashstar> I think we have a lot of spychological wheel spinning. Everyone has their issues- some thhings, like what is being researched at Stanford, is great
18:55 < Ashstar> for self analysis
18:56 < hprmbridge> kanzure> boring
18:56 < hprmbridge> kanzure> engineer new brains or use genetics to make happy babies or something
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19:02 < Ashstar> Vitrification is a proven and reliable technology used at U.S. and foreign defense waste processing facilities. The process converts liquid radioactive and chemical waste into a solid, stable glass, eliminating environmental risks.
19:03 < Ashstar> oops
19:04 < Ashstar> talking to another channel about the need to implement nuclear safe tech
19:04 < Ashstar> till we have fussion
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19:07 < hprmbridge> kanzure> thoughts on nuclear safety policy https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1728967746766217493
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21:39 < docl> I made a perlite / clay aggregate and shaped some small bricks from it today. interestingly when I hit the surface with a torch, any exposed perlite granules glow quickly. probably has to do with the relatively low amount of water in them compared to the clay
21:41 < docl> the clay is kitty litter clay. I couldn't find anything comparably cheap (20 cents / lb) anywhere else and didn't feel like using dirt. the clay is a lot finer and more absorbant of water than dirt typically is
21:43 < Ashstar> your cats will now have volcanic lava shit
21:43 < Ashstar> hole
21:44 < Ashstar> they can sterolize their Toxoplasmoss poop
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21:47 < docl> I'm not using perlite for the cats, too expensive
21:48 < docl> the cheapest option for actual kitty litter is just horse bedding pellets made from pine, it seems. can't exactly build a kiln from that (maybe if I carbonize and seal it it can be a component though)
21:48 < docl> it looks like industrial oil absorber clay granules are a bit cheaper than kitty litter, but not by much
21:50 < docl> I paid $26 for 2 cubic feet of perlite from the home depot garden center. probably enough to make a reasonable sized kiln
21:59 < docl> this is the expanded stuff, I think the expense is mostly because it's bulky and preprocessed. maybe if I start making vast amounts of bricks I'll look into converting the volcanic rock stuff in house. apparently you just heat it to 850-900 C and it pops like popcorn
21:59 < docl> .wik Perlite
21:59 < EmmyNoether> "Perlite is an amorphous volcanic glass that has a relatively high water content, typically formed by the hydration of obsidian. It occurs naturally and has the unusual property of greatly expanding when heated sufficiently." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlite
22:00 < docl> $150/ton unexpanded according to wikipedia
22:02 < docl> woah that's cheap, only 15 cents a kilo?
22:04 < Ashstar> pearlite is a two-phased, lamellar (or layered) structure composed of alternating layers of ferrite (87.5 wt%) and cementite (12.5 wt%) that occurs in some steels and cast irons
22:05 < Ashstar> or perlite?
22:05 < Ashstar> which is made from expanded volcanic glass, heated to 1000°C until it ‘pops’ (like popcorn) to many times its original size. It's lightweight, sterile, and easy to handle, and is long-lasting. It's neither alkaline nor acidic
22:06 < Ashstar> keep the cats away, they got Toxoplasmosis
22:06 < Ashstar> which is partially why we love cats
22:06 < docl> I'm currently looking at perlite, not pearlite. very useful stuff in horticulture, or in my case as a reasonably high temp insulation material (am using as an aggregate with clay)
22:06 < Ashstar> our brains are over riden by a protozoan that makes us love cats
22:07 < docl> sadly my wife came with 2 cats, nothing I can do about it... probably already got the toxo
22:07 < docl> kanzure has a plan: engineer toxoplasmosis to make humans smarter instead of making us love cats
22:08 < Ashstar> oh
23:17 < hprmbridge> nmz787> In the diy refractory glue video, the guy had this contraption https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1191641305651093616/Screenshot_20240101-231410.png?ex=65a62d72&is=6593b872&hm=ed2bc7044c4795b06b212c8cdd18bb6a41df12d4666f1535fd3c517454293a7c&
23:17 < hprmbridge> nmz787> And now I can't help wanting something like that which is a little kitchen/home incinerator
23:19 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Like, loops of coil around the bottom for induction, a little vacuum pump outside the house (that's where that pipe/tube goes, lol). Pop your salmon/meat juice contaminated plastic in, pop a silicone cap in the top, flip on the vacuum pump and RF induction circuit... Should light up with a nice oxygen /residual air plasma
23:20 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Maybe even have 2-stage setup so you really clean up the exhaust so it's apartment compatible
23:36 < docl> I managed to source some lime, it's type S builder's lime which apparently is a hydrated mix of Ca/Mg carbonates. will probably try to make some of the allegedly refractory stuff tomorrow. I also have the lye and silica gel crystals for the waterglass
23:37 < docl> seems like type S is all they carry at Home Depot and Lowes
--- Log closed Tue Jan 02 00:00:17 2024