--- Log opened Thu Jan 04 00:00:19 2024
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08:35 < nsh> .m https://twitter.com/XianyangCB/status/1742718239271268556
08:37 < hprmbridge> kanzure>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1192507064354865353/image0.jpg?ex=65a953bf&is=6596debf&hm=293c9dcb1da68bd3c9a733256855256565f47a5b29f031bd70652770f22f3074&
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10:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> focused ultrasound headset, $10,000 https://www.openwater.health/ https://github.com/OpenwaterHealth
10:03 < superkuh> Wow. Openwater actually went somewhere. Awesome. IIRC their mailing list was dead in the 2000s.
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11:19 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.dwarkeshpatel.com/p/carl-shulman
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11:46 < hprmbridge> jason.crawford> I wrote up some cool things I learned about at Foresight Vision Weekend https://rootsofprogress.org/vision-weekend-2023-writeup
12:02 < muurkha> jason.crawford: "much of Earth’s gravity well" is incorrect
12:03 < muurkha> gravitational acceleration at Earth's surface is 9.81 m/s/s.  at 100 km above Earth's surface it's 9.51 m/s/s
12:04 < muurkha> whether you're going by force or by gravitational potential energy, that's not "much of"
12:07 < muurkha> I don't see why you need a special construction material to make a 100 km high tower.  Sure, steel only reaches compressive strengths of 1 GPa, so if you build a vertical steel cylinder, its weight exceeds the compressive strength of the base at only 12.9 km
12:10 < muurkha> well, I guess I should say "about 10 km" since 1 GPa isn't a very precise value
12:10 < muurkha> the crucial thing here is that it isn't, like, 100 m
12:11 < muurkha> but if the base is wider than the tip, you have more compressive strength and less weight.  If you make a tower where the base always has just enough compressive strength to support the weight of the steel above it, its area grows exponentially
12:11 < muurkha> if I make a random guess that it grows by a factor of e every 10 km, then the base of a 100 km tower would need to have 22000 times the area of its tip
12:12 < muurkha> so if the tip is 10 m wide, the base would need to be 1.5 km wide to support its weight
12:13 < muurkha> and that's with steel and no buoyancy!  there are materials with much higher strength-to-weight ratios than steel
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13:03 < muurkha> jason.crawford: I analyzed a variant of the "space pier" idea in 02011 in https://www.mail-archive.com/kragen-tol@canonical.org/msg00269.html
13:03 < muurkha> with a 100km-long dirigible at 90km altitude instead of a 300km-long tower-mounted railgun at 100km altitude
13:04 < muurkha> floating balloons to 90km altitude is routine, unlike building 100-km-tall towers, but building a 100-km-long dirigible is not
13:08 < muurkha> my constant-acceleration calculation was 50 gees to reach 7km/s, which is roughly what you need for LEO (escape velocity is of course higher)
13:10 < muurkha> this should be inversely proportional to the length of the track, since a constant energy per unit mass will be jointly proportional to the force per unit mass (aka acceleration) and the length
13:10 < muurkha> did I get the calculation wrong?  or is 10 gees for 300 km correct?
15:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> @jason.crawford see above^
15:09 < docl> I'm getting about ~8 gees for 7km/s and 300km
15:10 < docl> so pretty close to that
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20:11 < fenn> did openwater just dump a bunch of stuff over the wall after a decade of development?
20:15 < fenn> it's usually a bad sign when that happens; a startup can increase their publicity cross section slightly by attracting developers and scientists
20:15 < fenn> in order to come to the attention of investors
20:16 < fenn> not that i'm complaining about getting open source brain interface schematics
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20:20 < Ashstar> have you been invoved with Openwater, fenn?
20:20 < Ashstar> involved
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20:24 < Ashstar> Openwater is a San Francisco-based startup focused on devising a new generation of imaging technologies for brain computer interfaces.
20:25 < fenn> no; i was going to build my own near infrared brain computer interface with simple LEDs and photodiodes, so i was very interested in their progress, but it went quiet shortly thereafter
20:27 < fenn> tbh i never understood how it was supposed to actually work
20:27 < fenn> they seem to be doing something different now, simply detecting the contrast of the reflected laser speckle
20:27 < Ashstar> yeah, I noticed that
20:28 < fenn> before it was supposed to be some kind of realtime digital hologram that precisely cancels out the scattering effect of the intervening tissue
20:28 < Ashstar> some of them were connected to my grad U
20:29 < Ashstar> I was intrigued by what they proposed
20:29 < fenn> looks like they have some real tech tho https://wiki.openwater.health/index.php/Holographic_Acousto_Optic_Imaging
20:30 < Ashstar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holonomic_brain_theory
20:30 < fenn> bullshit
20:30 < Ashstar> the holographic model of memory storage/retrieval
20:31 < Ashstar> wha
20:31 < Ashstar> is
20:31 < Ashstar> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHpTYs6GJhQ
20:31 < fenn> maybe someone is conflating theories
20:32 < fenn> the lead says "holonomic brain theory is  a branch of neuroscience investigating the idea that human consciousness is formed by quantum effects in or between brain cells."
20:32 < Ashstar> we were workin neurosensor arrays
20:32 < Ashstar> g
20:32 < fenn> i always understood "holographic brain" to be about redundancy of neurons and information being encoded simultaneously in multiple places
20:33 < Ashstar> it sort of is
20:33 < fenn> we do see this happening in artificial neural networks, and it's annoying, but the concept is sound
20:33 < fenn> going from that to quantum woo is just a non-sequitur
20:33 < Ashstar> yeah
20:33 < Ashstar> it's a reach
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20:34 < Ashstar> but a popular theory
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20:35 < Ashstar> some people went way off to the realm of the esoteric
20:37 < Ashstar> I am very interested in the research done at UofV Perceptual Studies
20:37 < Ashstar> dept
20:38 < Ashstar> their research on the nature of consciousness
20:40 < Ashstar> NED's, other hard to reconcille what we know of consciousness the continuation of something after death
20:40 < Ashstar> and
20:41 < fenn> see the bit about polysemantic neurons https://distill.pub/2020/circuits/zoom-in/
20:41 < Ashstar> I had a very interesting NDE
20:41 < Ashstar> NDE
20:41 < fenn> you died?
20:41 < Ashstar> yeah
20:42 < fenn> that's rather unusual
20:42 < Ashstar> it was
20:42 < fenn> how did this happen?
20:42 < Ashstar> stomach rupture
20:42 < Ashstar> blood loss
20:42 < Ashstar> I was coded
20:42 < Ashstar> flatlined
20:42 < fenn> well damn
20:44 < fenn> any news for us mortals?
20:46 < Ashstar> read up what they have
20:47 < Ashstar> UofV perceptual Studies
20:48 < Ashstar> I would have loved to have done some research imagery, using neurosensonsor arrays
20:50 < Ashstar> https://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2022/09/u-va-research-on-near-death-experiences-investigates-the-possibilities-between-life-and-death
20:50 < Ashstar> https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/our-research/children-who-report-memories-of-previous-lives/fifty-years-of-research/
21:03 < aaabbb> past lives are nonsense
21:07 < Ashstar> perhaps
21:08 < Ashstar> I thought it all nonsense
21:08 < Ashstar> as a scientist, I couldn't see it
21:09 < Ashstar> careful though to not dismss stuff that for lack of sufficient knowledge might have something to it
21:10 < Ashstar> just read their reports, if nothing else, makes for good reading
21:11 < Ashstar> Im not at all arguing for it, I did find the data on NDE interesting
21:11 < Ashstar> espcecially afterexperiencing one
21:11 < fenn> we can get a lot of the same crazy stuff with DMT, and do that in a lab to see what's happening in the brain
21:12 < Ashstar> yes
21:13 < fenn> and do it multiple times without much risk, to train people to do experiments on the other side, whatever that means
21:14 < Lando-SpacePimp> fenn
21:14 < fenn> there's that slatestar codex thread of questions to ask the machine elves
23:13 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://gaelmcgill.artstation.com/projects/Pm0JL1
23:14 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Created for Cell Signaling Technology, Inc., and inspired by the stunning art of David Goodsell, this 3D rendering of a eukaryotic cell is modeled using X-ray, nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR), and cryo-electron microscopy datasets for all of its molecular actors. It is an attempt to recapitulate the myriad pathways involved in signal transduction, protein synthesis, endocytosis, vesicular
23:14 < hprmbridge> nmz787> transport, cell-cell adhesion, apoptosis, and other processes. Although dilute in its concentration relative to a real cell, this rendering is also an attempt to visualize the great complexity and beauty of the cell’s molecular choreography. Interactive versions of parts of this landscape can be explored at http://www.digizyme.com/cst_landscapes.html.
23:14 < hprmbridge> nmz787> the interactive pages are pretty cool
23:15 < hprmbridge> nmz787> and here's a high-res PDF poster https://bynder.cellsignal.com/m/1c696ee656a11a5f/original/Poster-The-Cellular-Landscape-EN.pdf
23:48 < muurkha> I think Penrose quasi-endorses the quantum consciousness theory, but to me it seems like a god of the gaps
23:54 < fenn> it's also not possible according to physical theory
23:54 < fenn> not in a warm brain anyway
23:54 < aaabbb> fenn: warm, wet, and noisy
23:55 < aaabbb> the penrose quantum microtubules nonsense is not taken seriously with neuroscientists
23:57 < aaabbb> he showed that ultra cold quantum microtubules showed the ability to keep particles inside in a superposition, and then leaped to the conclusion that not only was that biologically relevant, that it could happen in a warm wet and noisy brain, but that it also assisted with computation, AND that those computations were necessary for consciousness
23:58 < aaabbb> it's like discovering that a splinter of wood has some fascinating properties in a vacuum and then concluding that god is real and that his throne of wood is made of oak
--- Log closed Fri Jan 05 00:00:20 2024