--- Log opened Fri Jan 05 00:00:20 2024
00:00 < aaabbb> Ashstar: near death experiences trigger altered states of consciousness. if a fully lucid witness often is mistaken in a court of law, why would anyone place any value on the perceptions of a person who is not lucid? it's interesting that they go into an altered state of consciousness, but what they see is internal, not external
00:18 < Ashstar> if you say so
00:19 < aaabbb> Ashstar: there's no evidence to suggest that altered states of consciousness are anything other than natural phenomena in the brain
00:19 < aaabbb> nothing supernatural, nothing about past lives
00:19 < Ashstar> just read some of the more interesting files
00:19 < aaabbb> just a complex computer being operated out of spec and behaving incorrectly
00:20 < Ashstar> people are quick to assign or dismiss things. I was there, what I experienced was fascinating
00:20 < Ashstar> I used to be very skeptical of some of the claims
00:21 < aaabbb> i've experienced ffascinating things on drugs as well
00:21 < aaabbb> but i was never in another universe
00:21 < Ashstar> as a hallucination from hypoxia
00:21 < aaabbb> whatever it is, it's hallucination. whether it's hypoxia or something else i don't know
00:21 < aaabbb> but the supernatural does not exist
00:21 < Ashstar> never said it did
00:22 < Ashstar> there is one thing I know
00:22 < aaabbb> you'd consider past lives to be supernatural right?
00:22 < Ashstar> I know shit
00:23 < Ashstar> there are dimensions we do not understand or comprehend with our 3D universe
00:23 < aaabbb> our universe is 3D+1, i don't like the misconception of dimensions meaning something other than a mathematical way to do gemoetry
00:23 < Ashstar> what exists below the Planck scale
00:24 < Ashstar> 10^-43m
00:24 < aaabbb> yeah string theory
00:24 < aaabbb> those aren't dimensions that you "Travel to" or anything like that
00:24 < Ashstar> what is the real with action at a distance
00:24 < aaabbb> it's just a way of describing things
00:24 < Ashstar> entanglement
00:24 < aaabbb> a hallucination isn't traveling to another dimension or anything like that
00:25 < Ashstar> we have as much inner space as we see in outer space
00:25 < aaabbb> that sounds like a category error to me
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00:28 < aaabbb> altered states of consciousness are fascinating but i don't like when anecdotes and personal experiences are used to ascribe reality to something experienced while not completely lucid
00:29 < Ashstar> I wouldn't be so dismissive either of Roger Penrose
00:29 < aaabbb> i'm not dismisive of his findings, but of his conclusions
00:29 < aaabbb> he is not a neuroscientist
00:29 < Ashstar> he sometimes has some insights
00:32 < aaabbb> also there is no evidence (and he doesn't even try to provide it) that there is any quantum advantage to the algorithms behind consciousness, because we don't even know the algorithms behind consciousness
00:32 < aaabbb> until he can show that consciousness is in bqp (bounded error quantum polynomial time), there is no reason to argue that quantum affects in microtubules, even if they could occur above 1 K, have anything to do with consciousness
00:33 < Ashstar> hell if I know
00:34 < Ashstar> but "there are more things in haven and Earth than are drempt of in your philosophies" "Horatio
00:35 < Ashstar> heaven
00:35 < aaabbb> that's true, but penrose postuates things without evidence, and with plenty of contrary evidence
00:35 < aaabbb> extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence
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00:39 < aaabbb> he has to first prove that superpositions in microtubules occur in vivo (which has been disproven countless times, so he has to show that it actually does happen), then that it's computationally relevant, then that the computation actually affects the neurons behavior, then he has to show what "algorithms" are behind consciousness (so he has to solve the hard process of consciousness, and the 2 
00:39 < aaabbb> binding problems), and then that the algorithms have a quantum speedup and require one, and then that the microtubules are what provides that quantum speedup
00:39 < aaabbb> but all he has shown is that microtubules in vitro in controlled conditions (very cold, very quiet) can sometimes show some evidence of superpositions
00:39 < aaabbb> he showed that A might be true, and concluded Z from that, skipping all the other steps
00:41 < Ashstar> well, time to explore my inner space, of my eyelids
00:41 < Ashstar> nn
00:42 < aaabbb> Ashstar: And sleep, that sometime shuts up sorrow's eye, Steal me awhile from mine own company.
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04:29 < hprmbridge> Eli> I guess we should have forseen this coming: https://futurism.com/neoscope/ozempic-wegovy-semaglutide-overdose
04:29 < hprmbridge> Eli> Might be useful for yall: https://zoo.dev/blog/introducing-text-to-cad
06:10 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/04/24/the-future-of-fertility
06:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> why is there a bunch of penrose in the backlog? stop that.
06:26 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Meta-analysis: On average, undergraduate students' intelligence is merely average" https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2024.1309142/abstract
07:04 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/09/29/1080538/everything-you-need-to-know-about-artificial-wombs/
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07:31 < hprmbridge> Eli> Economists had convinced me that IQ for undergrads depended more on degree, with mathematicians being the highest and teachers being the lowest, from my recollection
07:49 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Pluripotent stem cell-derived model of the post-implantation human embryo" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06368-y
09:32 < L29Ah> 06:11:55]<fenn> we can get a lot of the same crazy stuff with DMT, and do that in a lab to see what's happening in the brain
09:32 < L29Ah> my experience from ~50-100 DMT trips says it's not much different from other traditional psychedelics wrt observed subjective experiences; i don't see why it's so popular among researchers, just because of perceived physiologicity and extraordinarily short half-life?
09:33 < L29Ah> its pharmacological profile is not much different either
10:00 < hprmbridge> nmz787> it's "the spirit molecule"
10:01 < hprmbridge> nmz787> all the enzymes present in pineal leads to theory about endogenous production
10:01 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I think that, along with the short half-life, make a good case to experiment review boards
10:01 < hprmbridge> nmz787> (and medical science)
10:05 < hprmbridge> kanzure> boring
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11:49 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I'd guess you're just unaware
11:49 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Err, unexpected
11:50 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Inexperienced
11:50 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Sorry, auto correct
12:42 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> We've got more people talking about RTSC again https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.00999.pdf
13:40 < Ashstar> I really didn't much care for DMT, perhaps it was the wrong dossage. Much prefer other ethnobotanicals
13:40 < hprmbridge> kanzure> Waldorf be like this https://twitter.com/kanzure/status/1743365786649977093
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21:08 < Ashstar> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21MJoQHw5Lg
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22:29 < docl> someone should be working on modified RBCs with cobalt crystals replacing the hemoglobin to extend breath holding time / reduce ischemia hazards
22:30 < docl> https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2014/SC/C4SC01636J
22:33 < docl> > In the solid state this series of compounds show O2 binding affinities and reversibility which rival that of myoglobin
23:37 < muurkha> nice
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 06 00:00:21 2024