--- Log opened Sat Jan 06 00:00:21 2024
02:36 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:40 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
02:42 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/qNQjZW6cNFmJ5EqaqS48yT-970-80.jpg
02:43 < hprmbridge> nmz787> From https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-receives-first-high-na-euv-chipmaking-tool-from-asml-intel-is-the-first-pathfinder-for-revolutionary-new-lithography-tech
02:43 < hprmbridge> nmz787> It's pretty cool that I actually (knowingly) work with a few people in the photo
04:17 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
04:18 -!- pasky [~pasky@nikam.ms.mff.cuni.cz] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:08 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
05:11 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
05:35 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:39 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
07:43 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
08:56 < docl> https://www.jpaerospace.com
08:56 < docl> .m https://twitter.com/theodorus5/status/1743672365744005528
08:56 < AugustaAva> ​twitter: <theodorus5> @lsparrish By my estimate there are approx six groups / individuals (including you and I) that are thinking along the same lines. Maybe we should connect?
09:45 < hprmbridge> nmz787>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1193249100741755020/PXL_20240106_041824487.jpg?ex=65ac06d3&is=659991d3&hm=1616ba229e526fdd215cfb8f9ccf00e9604b91fcc3a3324c462e9f1016fba14b&
09:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1193249162603548843/PXL_20240106_173021634.jpg?ex=65ac06e1&is=659991e1&hm=45d1c0a7c030682a6ecd88ae3fc9b4ecfda9587987241f65fe9101c72e7c0f9e&
09:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787> That's the topside after deposition/precipitation
09:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1193249251841548378/PXL_20240106_173110617.MP.jpg?ex=65ac06f7&is=659991f7&hm=0399e64779cb98066e022ffb93c56e8ec671c5ee8d67140536a454f8b7b61c60&
09:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Here's through the backside
10:53 < hprmbridge> kanzure> my bank https://cowboystatedaily.com/2024/01/05/wyoming-based-custodia-bank-goes-for-jugular-in-lawsuit-against-federal-reserve/
12:19 < Ashstar> Co, it would have to fit into a porhyron ring Heme is a porphyrin ring complexed protein that is a shape shifter depending on O2
12:19 < Ashstar> CO2
12:19 < Ashstar> levels
12:22 < Ashstar> Choroplasts have porphyrin rings with Mg as the center metal
12:24 < Ashstar>  heme structure has four pyrrole rings joined together to form a tetrapyrrole. The tetrapyrrole ring forms the base structure of the heme molecule known as porphin. When the tetrapyrrole ring contains a metal ion between its ring structure, then it is known as a porphyrin ring
12:38 < Ashstar> the metal of course binds O2/ CO2
12:48 < docl> I'm not sure we're limited to strategies that make it structurally similar to hemoglobin. for example, picture a micron-scale crystal that twists itself in the presence of CO2 / absence of oxygen, causing it to structurally favor the release vs absorbtion of oxygen. you'd have fewer such structures in a modified red blood cell than you have hemoglobin molecules, but there should be room for things to 
12:48 < docl> be several microns across
12:55 < muurkha> presumably you mean chloroplasts rather than choropleths
12:56 < muurkha> docl: your mom is several microns across
12:58 < Ashstar> thats how the porphyrin works, if it has more CO2 it pushes forward, O2 in, or visa versa
12:59 < Ashstar> it is a shape shifting active protein structure
12:59 < muurkha> nice
12:59 < Ashstar> marvelous mechanism, been a few years from my biochem days, but found it fascinating
13:00 < Ashstar> the kinetic involved
13:00 < Ashstar> kinetics
13:00 < Ashstar> they have worked, of course for many years on artificial bloods
13:00 < Ashstar> it has strategic value
13:02 < muurkha> good point
13:03 < muurkha> frogmen without tanks, freediving for hours to many kilometer depth and no decompression sickness
13:03 < Ashstar> yep
13:03 < muurkha> aside from transfusions
13:05 < Ashstar> I remember as a kid seeing these pics of a monkey and a parot that where immersed in this fluid, breathing, I have been a swimmer since 6 and asked my mom for some artifiial ills
13:05 < Ashstar> gills
13:05 < docl> seems like it would also be incredibly good for preventing much of the damage of heart attack and stroke
13:06 < muurkha> I didn't know they'd gotten monkeys to breathe liquid
13:06 < Ashstar> there is already a vast trove of research on artificial blood
13:06 < Ashstar> some classified
13:06 < Ashstar> yeah
13:07 < muurkha> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorinert talks about rats breathing oxygenated Fluorinert, but that's just what they filmed for the movie
13:07 < Ashstar> muurkha, they apparently used a fluid like polyflourine
13:07 < Ashstar> that saturated with O2
13:07 < Ashstar> something like that
13:07 < muurkha> not polyfluorine, perfluorocarbons like perfluorohexane
13:08 < Ashstar> they tried it w humans too
13:08 < Ashstar> it gave them pneumonia
13:08 < Ashstar> after draining the fluid
13:08 < muurkha> I'm surprised they survived; I thought reperfusion after fluorinert breathing was always fatal
13:08 < Ashstar> the Abyss- movie
13:09 < Ashstar> had some of that tech- Cameron of course has done a lot of research
13:09 < muurkha> has he?  what's his most cited publication?
13:10 < docl> .wik Porphyrin
13:10 < EmmyNoether> " / Porphyrins (/ˈpɔːrfərɪn/ POR-fər-in) are a group of heterocyclic macrocycle organic compounds, composed of four modified pyrrole subunits interconnected at their α carbon atoms via methine bridges (=CH−)." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyrin
13:10 < docl> .wik Tetrapyrrole
13:10 < EmmyNoether> "Tetrapyrroles are a class of chemical compounds that contain four pyrrole or pyrrole-like rings.  The pyrrole/pyrrole derivatives are linked by (=(CH)- or -CH|2- units), in either a linear or a cyclic fashion.  Pyrroles are a five-atom ring with four carbon atoms and one [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrapyrrole
13:10 < Ashstar> well, he went all the way down, Challenger Deep
13:10 < Ashstar> by himself
13:10 < Ashstar> has researched a lot of his stuff he did
13:10 < Ashstar> right
13:12 < muurkha> maybe https://www.jacc.org/doi/full/10.1016/j.jacc.2013.09.063?  that lists a "James Cameron" among the authors
13:13 < Ashstar> I was quite right on the fluid used, perfluorohexane has both enough oxygen and carbon dioxide with enough space between the molecules that animals submerged in the liquid can still breath normally. This unique property may be applied to medical applications like liquid ventilation, drug delivery or blood substitutes
13:13 < muurkha> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Cameron doesn't mention a research career
13:13 < Ashstar> wasn't
13:13 < muurkha> yeah, that's what I said: 21:07 < muurkha> not polyfluorine, perfluorocarbons like perfluorohexane
13:14 < Ashstar> he has no need for research fame, his documentaries, speak for him
13:14 < Ashstar> some of his movies
13:14 < Ashstar> sure he is not actively publicating
13:14 < muurkha> documentaries are not scholarly work
13:15 < muurkha> hey, I didn't realize he used to be married to Kathryn Bigelow
13:15 < Ashstar> yeah
13:17 < Ashstar> there have been only 3 people that have gone to "Challenger Deep" 37,k ft below sea level, more people have gone to the moon, he is one of the three
13:17 < muurkha> the James Cameron in https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/71461928.pdf seems to be a British law professor
13:18 < muurkha> sure, he's definitely done a lot of great stuff.  I'm just saying that adventuring and filmmaking are not the same thing as research
13:18 < Ashstar> well, sure
13:19 < Ashstar> technically
13:20 < Ashstar> but  what he has done is part of human's expansion of horizons
13:20 < muurkha> yes, I agree
13:21 < Lando-HoloNet> Ashstar is a winner
13:35 < Ashstar> okay, time to reload the fireplace firebox
13:38 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Another case of security by obscurity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KhbJ4pqcOY
14:36 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://jeremiahengland.substack.com/p/an-updated-proposal-for-artificial
15:00 < Ashstar> https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/liquid-breathing#:~:text=Solutions%20for%20Liquid%20Ventilation,Clark%20and%20Gollan%20in%201966.&text=Additional%20work%20has%20demonstrated%20that,return%20to%20air%2Dbreathing%20conditions.
15:01 < Ashstar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_breathing
15:14 < Ashstar> Liquid immersion provides a way to reduce the physical stress of G forces. Forces applied to fluids are distributed as omnidirectional pressures. Because liquids cannot be practically compressed, they do not change density under high acceleration such as performed in aerial maneuvers or space travel. A person immersed in liquid of the same density as tissue has acceleration forces 
15:14 < Ashstar> distributed around the body, rather than applied at a single point such as a seat or harness straps. This principle is used in a new type of G-suit called the Libelle G-suit, which allows aircraft pilots to remain conscious and functioning at more than 10g acceleration by surrounding them with water in a rigid suit.[57]
15:14 < Ashstar> Acceleration protection by liquid immersion is limited by the differential density of body tissues and immersion fluid, limiting the utility of this method to about 15g to 20g.[58] Extending acceleration protection beyond 20g requires filling the lungs with fluid of density similar to water. An astronaut totally immersed in liquid, with liquid inside all body cavities, will feel little 
15:14 < Ashstar> effect from extreme G forces because the forces on a liquid are distributed equally, and in all directions simultaneously. However effects will be felt because of density differences between different body tissues, so an upper acceleration limit still exists.
15:14 < Ashstar> Liquid breathing for acceleration protection may never be practical because of the difficulty of finding a suitable breathing medium of similar density to water that is compatible with lung tissue. Perfluorocarbon fluids are twice as dense as water, hence unsuitable for this application
15:14 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:18 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
17:02 < muurkha> the sciencedirect thing seems to be one of Elsevier's search-engine spam pages: generated by a search engine to feed to search engines
17:03 < muurkha> it links to https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-7216-0186-1.50030-2 which turns out to be a book chapter, but the page doesn't say what book
17:04 < muurkha> there's an option to export a citation as bibtex, which says the book editors are PETER J. PAPADAKOS and BURKHARD LACHMANN and Laraine Visser-Isles
17:05 < muurkha> the full title turns out to be "Mechanical Ventilation: Clinical Applications and Pathophysiology", and libgen does have it
17:08 < muurkha> this is from 15 years ago so plausibly it's out of date
17:12 < muurkha> it talks about partial liquid ventilation in chapter 4; apparently it's been tried in humans as a therapy for acute lung injury and acute respiratory distress syndrome, and although it wasn't better than regular ventilation, it also didn't immediately kill all the patients as I had thought
17:30 < Ashstar> the after affects did
17:31 < Ashstar> the lung became supseptible to infection
17:31 < muurkha> apparently not all of them.  they were trying it on patients that were at a major risk of dying anyway
17:31 < Ashstar> subceptible
17:31 < Ashstar> we need our avioi dry
17:32 < Ashstar> our mucous membranes functional
17:32 < Ashstar> avioli
17:32 < Ashstar> yes
17:32 < Ashstar> true, it was last ditch stuff
17:34 < Ashstar> plus we produce IgA, E and M antibodies
17:35 < Ashstar> essential for lungm mucous membrane health
17:46 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
17:48 < Ashstar> these are important for our immunodefense
17:49 < Ashstar> which is why it seems these hypoxic fluids affect people who undergo it
17:50 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
17:57 < Ashstar> https://reachmd.com/news/cheese-triggers-the-same-part-of-brain-as-hard-drugs/1631235/
18:05 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
20:58 -!- mxz_ [~mxz@user/mxz] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:58 -!- mxz [~mxz@user/mxz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
20:59 -!- mxz_ is now known as mxz
22:23 -!- Gooberpatrol_66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:24 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:24 -!- muurkha [~kragen@adjuvant.canonical.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
22:26 -!- muurkha [~kragen@adjuvant.canonical.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:49 -!- flooded [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has joined #hplusroadmap
22:52 -!- test_ [flooded@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/flood/x-43489060] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
23:50 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
--- Log closed Sun Jan 07 00:00:22 2024