--- Log opened Mon Mar 25 00:00:07 2024
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01:13 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Like dogs knowing to dig and beavers knowing to build dams? Even if domesticated from birth and never raised to do that?
01:42 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yep, behaviours or at least biases towards behaviours which makes them arise regardless of standard environmental variation. Somehow that stuff is either encoded directly into how the brain forms or is "written" to wetware during the development of the embryo. Kinda like blowing firmware into a PROM
01:47 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Iirc there was something about fetal REM sleep being responsible for the development of instinctual behaviours but I'm not sure where I read it so take it with a pinch of salt
02:02 < hprmbridge> fodagut> There's a lot of unwarranted extrapolation in there. Beaver brains don't actually need to have instructions for building dams, just a few instinctual triggers that under typical environmental circumstances would lead to dam creation.
02:04 < hprmbridge> fodagut> E.g. they've got growing teeth that probably itch, and biting trees relieves that itch. And their skin/fur feels more comfortable in still water. Dam building can emerge from those sets of conditions alone.
02:06 < hprmbridge> fodagut> Yeah wild beavers have highly elaborate dam building routines, but that can be explained by a combination of experience and socially learned behavior. For an isolated beaver to nevertheless show simple, rudimentary dam building behavior doesn't require complex instincts.
02:08 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> True, the building of dams itself is probably learned. However, there is an ingrained response to the sound of flowing water iirc
02:14 < hprmbridge> fodagut> And that's simple enough to understand how it could be instinctual without anything a software engineer might understand as "firmware." A simple structure to the auditory nerve that associates pleasure or pain with various kinds of water sound.
02:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> True, firmware might be a stretch for the case of beavers however the ability for a foal to walk almost immediately suggests more complex ingrained behaviours.
02:22 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> However I am going to attack my own position on this as walking behaviour can be fairly simple as you can exploit the physical characteristics of your body which I saw on a talk that was ostensibly on information geometry https://yotube.com/watch?v=m3QbaIdJ-xs
02:23 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> correction : https://youtube.com/watch?v=m3QbaIdJ-xs
02:24 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Their application to hexapod control starts at the ~46:20 mark
02:31 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Additionally you have the circuitry to detect water sounds, depending on how specific the stimuli needs to be the required complexity can vary alot. If beavers respond to standard white noise or some noise other general noise spectra then it's probably as rudimentary as you suggest
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06:37 < L29Ah> robertmcdougal_73197: is microneedling any good?
07:06 < jrayhawk> t/win 2
07:06 < jrayhawk> whoops
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10:42 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab and the FDA
10:42 -!- Topic set by fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] [Fri Mar 25 06:29:19 2022]
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10:42 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Wed May 19 06:51:36 2021
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11:15 < L29Ah> is there a personal longevity roadmap that synthesizes the best proven interventions and isn't trying to sell you some product at the same time?
11:29 < hprmbridge> kanzure> proven?
11:33 < hprmbridge> fodagut> eating healthy and exercise?
11:35 < L29Ah> fodagut: sorta
11:35 < L29Ah> kanzure: kinda
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15:33 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> o/ Lev!
15:33 < hprmbridge> levalicious> o7
15:36 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Just a quick introduction Lev is friend a frequently argue with on random topics, and is interested in consensus algorithms and cryptography but frequently detours into writing simulations of fluid dynamics, EM, genetic algorithms for antenna design, etc so is defenitely a good fit here
15:37 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> /is friend a/is a friend i/
15:38 < hprmbridge> Lev> ADHD is a helluva drug
15:46  * L29Ah mumbles about decentralized science funding schemes
15:48 < geneh2> I just gotta say, check out the FEniCS project https://fenicsproject.org/
15:49 < geneh2> it's a great PDE solver
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17:21 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://auren.substack.com/p/you-too-can-be-the-proud-parent-of
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18:13 < fenn> poe's law
18:16 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://youtube.com/watch?v=-l9m-7_MdWM
18:24 < fenn> adam duncan has now graduated medical school and is actively seeking venture capital to start his own cloning clinic
18:25 < fenn> that was 20 years ago
18:26 < fenn> what the hell have people been doing all this time
18:35 < fenn> @alonzoc EM = expectation maximization or electromagnetism?
18:36 < fenn> oh "simulations of" clinches it
18:37 < fenn> not enough ADHD
19:23 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> EM  is cool though the information geometry behind it is really interesting and it leads to some fairly snazzy learning algorithms
19:23 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> wow we're piling on the new members today
19:24 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> o/
19:26 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> @fenn I stan shaowei lin's blog enough already but his derivation of a learning algorithm for mutable processes is really slick https://shaoweilin.github.io/posts/2021-03-23-biased-stochastic-approximation-with-mutable-processes/ and his talk slides a re good to https://shaoweilin.github.io/public/20231211-imsi.pdf
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19:29 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I did a similar derivation when I was playing around with spiking neural nets but his is much more rigorous and well motivated. Having convergence proofs for online sequence learning algorithms is really nice. When I have time I really need to see how it competes practically
19:34 < hprmbridge> Lev> fwiw both
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21:30 < fenn> ah yes the incomprehensible gobbledygook blog
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21:55 < hprmbridge> Eli> There are no 120 year RCTs of an intervention with a large n-value if that’s what you’re asking
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--- Log closed Tue Mar 26 00:00:08 2024