--- Log opened Wed Mar 27 00:00:09 2024
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02:15 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yamanaka factors (Oct3/4, Sox2, Klf4, c-Myc) have therapeutic potential but I haven't seen them used outside the lab yet ( I could be wrong on that). I think one of the issues with them is potentially cancer if you wind back the clock too far, how do we know you won't get cancer formation?
02:24 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah cancer is a risk to be concerned about. Iirc they'd got a chemically induced variant discussed in a follow-up paper. Really interesting, the other issue for practical life extension is delivery to all the cells in an adult without modifying their genome as an embryo
02:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> This was the latest paper I've read on it https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10373966/
02:36 < hprmbridge> Eli> If this is the paper I think it is, it got panned pretty hard by other scientists. There wasn't a great explanation behind their cocktails. We basically need to wait until they've actually accomplish something in real life.
02:38 < hprmbridge> Eli> Ok interesting. Are your scars aesthetic or are there other issues? Also, is there any evidence of treatment post-scar formation? Any human data?
02:42 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> No, regulation makes it basically impossible to try so data can't be collected
02:43 < hprmbridge> Eli> because it cant be patented or other reasons?
02:44 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> "Wound healing with scarring" isn't a recognized disease by the CDC since 100% of people heal with a scar, so you can't get something approved for a clinical endpoint that isn't even seen as a disease.
02:46 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Aesthetic but also itchy and pokey. They are from an emergency surgery that was done for elective reasons. I take back signing the consent form now that I know the surgeon lied about there being an emergency. Need to get my large intestine back too.
02:46 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> https://robertmcdougal.substack.com/p/dear-smart-people-and-society-please
02:46 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I talk about which body parts I'm missing + where the scars are in that substack post
02:46 < hprmbridge> Eli> dang sorry about that
02:51 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Thank you. I'm optimistic about technology reversing it.
02:55 < hprmbridge> Eli> what was the reason for the original surgery?
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03:07 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I had ulcerative colitis for ~8 years and my disease/symptoms was refractory to all the medications I had tried.
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03:09 < hprmbridge> Eli> Wow, quite a surgery for UC. I'm hoping it at least got rid of the UC? Was there a malpractice suit?
03:10 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I mean yeah it got rid of the symptoms like bleeding when going to the restroom because there's no colon or rectum left. But I was perfectly happy with the symptoms.
03:10 < hprmbridge> Eli> one thing that's crazy is that some people are actually using hookworms for their UC. It's sort of underground, but a number of people source them from their "hookworm guy"
03:11 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I tried calling over 20 law firms. One firm looked very seriously at everything, but because I was a candidate for a colectomy and because it was recommended that I get one by multiple doctors in the past and because we don't have bodily autonomy in this country or any say in our own healthcare decisions, they did not decide to take the case. Plus this happened in Florida and medical malpractice
03:11 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> lawsuits are capped at 250k. So surgeons can trick whoever with impunity.
03:12 < hprmbridge> Eli> thats insane
03:18 < hprmbridge> Eli> By no say in your healthcare decisions, do you mean the state or insurance was paying for the treatment? I recently had a novel back surgery done. Theres no way the government or insurance would pay for it so I paid all cash. So far it's been great. Similarly, I would have looked at other novel options for UC other than surgery. That's pretty intense for an autoimmune condition.
03:19 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I never would have considered surgery. I loved my life. I never saw the surgeon coming. He came out nowhere. Swooped down like a hawk and got the colon just a few hours after he surprised me with his existence.
03:21 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I mean the surgeon made the decision that I was going to get a colectomy and not me. I only signed the consent form because he said he saw a perforation on a CT scan and that I had hours to live. And that was a complete lie. There was no emergency at all.
03:21 < hprmbridge> Eli> Jesus. Who paid for the surgery?
03:22 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Idk I have Medicare A & B
03:22 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> So I guess Medicare paid for it
03:23 < hprmbridge> Eli> That agrees with my priors. There are very real horror stories with Medicare.
03:24 < hprmbridge> Eli> The government is the customer and not you. So they dont truly care about your health and well being.
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03:27 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I never complained of the UC to anyone at that hospital. I never asked for anyone's opinion. I went to the ER to get a note for work as I had IgA neuphropathy and was exhausted all day and couldn't get out of bed so I missed work. I had episodes before and they went away. I had been meaning to get the IgA checked out. The colectomy started 16 hours after I walked into the ER.
03:29 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> I think the surgeon just got overwhelmed that there was a candidate. I have no clue why he was notified of my existence.
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03:30 < hprmbridge> Eli> this is a great book on medicare
03:30 < hprmbridge> Eli> https://www.amazon.com/Catastrophic-Care-American-Health-Father/dp/0307961540
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03:48 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Thanks. I'll check it out.
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06:39 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Fucking hell that's a nightmare, I'm a suffer as well and. Just. No.
07:05 < hprmbridge> Eli> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-41182-6#:~:text=Fecal%20microbiota%20transplantation%20has%20shown,remission%20continue%20to%20present%20challenges.
07:18 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> FMT does look promising but a lot of the microbiota changes are "down stream" of the immune systems changes. It's definitely worth a look, the other non-standard treatment that looks interesting is helminth therapy
07:21 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I'm not in to bad a spot 5-ASA treatment works well on me so long as I don't disrupt my sleep schedule and remember to take them. Primary concern for me is how ever since I developed UC my energy levels have sucked and my productivity nose-dived
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08:31 < hprmbridge> Eli> is it not a two way street where the microbiota calms the immune system?
08:51 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> It is a two way street, however whatever happens in the process of developing UC is pulling a switch in the immune system that won't be flipped back by just fixing the microbiota. Otherwise taking something like 5-asa along with fixing your diet would probably be enough for a cure.
08:51 < hprmbridge> alonzoc>
08:51 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> But I can defenitely vouch from first hand experience there's feedback loops at play. Because before I was diagnosed and medicated no amount of diet would help, however now even when I'm off meds due to prescriptions being hard to get a hold of so long as there's no external stressors diet atleast in my case can keep my symptoms down to just pain and tiredness
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16:57 < hprmbridge> Eli> I’m not familiar with 5asa. Isn’t the role of the FMT to add new strains that replace the bad strains that cause issues?
17:12 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Yes there is a positive feedback loop that has to do with the bowel wall becoming scarred and stiffer. The much higher stiffness applies mechanical forces that cause hundreds of pro-inflammatory and pro-fibrotic genes to be turned inside the cells. Read this paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10601687/
17:12 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> And scroll up to read my comments on scarring
17:12 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Btw that paper used the same peptide I'm trying to get to remove my skin scars: GsMTx-4
17:14 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Yeah and you've also got a thinning of the mucosal barrier which means more stuff from inside the gut is interacting with the immune system which obviously makes it angry
17:24 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> 5-ASA (5-aminosalicylic acid) is magic, we don't know how it fully works but it locally inhibits the inflammatory response. FMT is good for rebuilding the microbiota but if you're in remission and have a good diet your microbiota should return to a more normal one eventually on it's own. So you'd expect if it was purely a self sustaining microbiota problem for remission to effectively cure it. So
17:24 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> the immune system is likely broken in some way such that the problem can easily reoccur, yielding flare-ups. UC is mimicked by gastrointestinal tuberculosis, which I got tested for as well, and that can be cured by a course of antibiotics. From everything I've read UC is fairly firmly in the "somethings wrong in the immune system" camp with it causing environmental factors that exacerbate it
17:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Oh I'll have to have a look at this one
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23:22 < hprmbridge> robertmcdougal_73197> Anyway, since research chemistry companies don't ship to people's houses. I guess I gotta wait a couple until I'm enrolled in a university.
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--- Log closed Thu Mar 28 00:00:10 2024