--- Log opened Sat Apr 20 00:00:32 2024
00:49 < fenn> another talking head thingy, not as good lip sync as EMO tho: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/vasa-1/
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02:26 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2024/04/the-adderall-shortage-dea-versus-fda-in-a-regulatory-war.html
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02:38 < hprmbridge> kanzure> the (libertarian?) human gigafactory https://archerships.substack.com/p/baby-mamma-international
05:26 < flyback> fenn I have a feeling he's dead :/
05:26 < flyback> thx
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08:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> why not as many moravec fans
08:44 < docl> hmm. I think if you select for general intelligence, you get an increase in libertarianism, but I'm not sure the reverse would be true. because I suspect conformity is an adaptation, so selecting for basically anything will incur tradeoffs that reduce it (libertarianism is more the absence of a strong conformity tendency). That said, selecting for general fitness increases both intelligence and 
08:44 < docl> conformity by that logic, and the g factor in intelligence is probably a proxy for that so I'm not super sure about this -- heightened conformity because high general fitness would also make sense. also there's plausibly something like, being intelligent makes you more *capable* of being more autonomous, and there could be a mechanism where you develop a preference based on your capability to benefit 
08:44 < docl> from autonomy. that's probably relative though (growing up among people just as smart as you on average -> develop less of an autonomy preference)
09:26 < gwillen> I think "libertarian" is a fairly poorly-defined axis, insofar as there are a lot of people claiming to be that who disagree about what it is 
09:27 < gwillen> it would make sense to me if there were some trend somewhere in that direction though 
09:44 < jrayhawk> and there'd be natural resentment of being beholden to the behavioral fences put around people who are relatively terrible at predicting the outcomes of their actions
09:47 < jrayhawk> the moral universalism of "and therefore we should get rid of the fences" is, unfortunately, not the best of intuitions
09:54 < jrayhawk> in an earlier time "maintain a facade of moral universalism (deontology, virtues ethicism) for the hoi polloi while an elite is judged on other, more consequentialist terms" was the social model, but the WASP class started sniffing their own christian universalist farts and is no longer capable of maintaining that plausible deniability
09:57 < jrayhawk> i guess some people are intuitively horrified by classism, so i should probably anchor this into more morally intuitive systems
09:57 < jrayhawk> drivers licenses: "you are trained to understand consequences, therefore have special privileges"
10:01 < jrayhawk> the same applies to WASP elites; being raised in an environment of boarding schools and capital management is a training in consequences most people will not comprehend
10:02 < jrayhawk> driving heavy, dangerous, high-energy systems around that might crash into other heavy, dangerous, high-energy systems
10:07 < jrayhawk> but you can see evolved elements of the "facade of universal vritue" model today with unsophisticated people constantly mentally papering over the hypocrisies of their political leaders
10:10 < jrayhawk> er, virtue
10:39 < jrayhawk> the analogy to make intellectual classism more morally intuitive is the example of a five year old being forbidden from walking into the road by an adult who walks into the road all the time
10:52 < jrayhawk> i suppose there's probably something important about Kagen stages, here, like only one percent of only middle-aged-or-older people are able to wrangle interacting moral systems in their head
12:37 < fenn> .t https://azatris.github.io/levels
12:37 < saxo> Kegan's Levels (or Constructive Developmental Theory) · Azatris' Belief Codex
12:40 < fenn> reading this wasn't especially insightful, but i'm somewhat surprised at their population prevalence estimates for each level (42% of adults don't have a developed sense of self determination?)
12:50 < fenn> classism often creates the situation of "and you aren't allowed to do this because you are not in the privileged class" which also spurs resentment and libertarianism
12:51 < fenn> i don't think i've ever had any sort of challenging test where the result was quantitatively or proportionally related to how much responsibility / power i was able to marshall
12:56 < fenn> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=baby+momma%2Cbaby+mama%2Cbaby+mamma&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3
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14:09 < fenn> s/42%/58%/
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14:47 < hprmbridge> jay_dugger> Congratulations on BIP editor-hood, Kanzure.
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18:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://youtu.be/qwbMGPkoJmg?si=9OH39eZw4t-gKR6O
18:42 < fenn> .t
18:42 < saxo> Emerging Ecosystems | Submission for the ALIFE 2024 Virtual Creatures Competition - YouTube
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18:57 < fenn>  the physics sim itself is pretty cool https://youtu.be/iUA-w5GF0Ck
18:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> can't tell if he solved open ended evolution or not
18:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> iirc this project is in the channel logs somewhere
18:59 < fenn> it doesn't seem like the genetic information or behavior controller is part of the simulation itself
19:00 < fenn> i don't know what it would mean to "solve" evolution
19:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> in the logs, there is a v good review manuscript describing the nature of the open ended evolution problem for simulations
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20:21 -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | this channel is LOGGED: http://gnusha.org/logs | https://diyhpl.us/wiki | not quite sponsored by george church | banned by the MIT media lab and the FDA
20:21 -!- Topic set by fenn [~fenn@user/fenn] [Fri Mar 25 06:29:19 2022]
20:21 -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 63 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 62 normal]
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20:21 -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Wed May 19 06:51:36 2021
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--- Log closed Sun Apr 21 00:00:32 2024