--- Log opened Mon Apr 22 00:00:33 2024
00:38 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-112-12-36.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
00:42 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-112-12-36.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:43 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-112-12-36.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
02:15 < L29Ah> nmz787: cancer isn't too hazardous if you notice it in time, and skin cancer is relatively cheap to notice and remove
04:31 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Formation of extraterrestrial peptides and their derivatives" https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.adj7179
04:59 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-112-12-36.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:00 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-112-12-36.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has joined #hplusroadmap
11:32 -!- cthlolo [~lorogue@77.33.24.3.dhcp.fibianet.dk] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:30 -!- cthlolo [~lorogue@77.33.24.3.dhcp.fibianet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:53 < hprmbridge> yashgaroth> @jason.crawford and anyone else interested, here is the minicircle thing as promised https://x.com/yashgaroth/status/1782497300876591431
13:04 < kanzure> roko tries to learn himself a blockchain https://twitter.com/RokoMijic/status/1782500347392754034
13:08 < docl> classic overthinker
14:17 < fenn> @yashgaroth please publish it somewhere that's not broken: https://fennetic.net/irc/fuck_twitter.png
14:18 < hprmbridge> Lev> <https://x.com/yashgaroth/status/1782497302621438371>
14:18 < hprmbridge> Lev> this one should work
14:18 < hprmbridge> jason.crawford> direct link to doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT7_6kWkIqrvzFZvs88O_NqVzmn-NPINvHOLM-A6r_ieZyvnJsNVk4FSU7EYrePnQg9gT_3kwahJESZ/pub
14:18 < fenn> yeah but i shouldn't have to ask, and it will be buried by "the algorithm" in a week
14:18 < hprmbridge> Lev> fair
14:19 < hprmbridge> fodagut> hplus hive mind: what's the best practice for dementia? are there any supplements which at least slow the degradation?
14:19 < fenn> BMAA (alien algae amino acid) causes some dementia and it bioaccumulates; you can maybe remove it from the brain by fasting and supplementing with serine
14:20 < fenn> turmeric binds to amyloid and alzheimer's is very rare in india
14:20 < fenn> occasional ketosis is probably good for neurons
14:23 < fenn> rapamycin induces autophagy which would increase the turnover of BMAA, but that's just me speculating
14:24 < fenn> https://maxwellclinic.com/therapeutic-plasma-exchange/
14:26 < fenn> probably large volume blood dilution too, since dementia is caused by aging
14:26 < fenn> don't do everything at once, obviously
14:32 < fenn> intermittent fasting is hard to mess up
14:33 < fenn> if it's caused by BMAA the fasting will stir up the BMAA and it will land somewhere else unless you wash it out with excess serine
14:43 < fenn> some more mainstream recommendations: walking a few miles a week, b-vitamins, green tea, low stress, being mentally engaged, cholinesterase inhibitors or alpha-GPC, DHA, memantine and other NMDA antagonists
14:44 < fenn> dementia is a symptom so the treatment really depends on what type it is
14:47 < fenn> some people say "brain diabetes" others say "inflammation from gingivitis"
14:52 < fenn> huh. "feeding male AβPP/PS1 transgenic mice, a well established mouse model of AD, with a diet containing phenolic antioxidant tert-butylhydroquinone (TBHQ) dramatically reduced brain Aβ load"
14:52 < hprmbridge> fodagut> thanks fenn
14:56 < fenn> .t https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23690582/
14:56 < saxo> Preventing Alzheimer's disease-related gray matter atrophy by B-vitamin treatment - PubMed
14:56 < fenn> seems easy and low risk
14:56 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I hate to be the one that says it but it's always on every list, "an active lifestyle, exercise etc"
14:57 < fenn> yeah but these are correlations usually, it's not like they're tying healthy people to a bed and preventing them from exercising or vice versa
14:58 < fenn> if you feel like shit to start with, you aren't going to be exercising spontaneously and voluntarily
14:58 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> God that made me laugh. I'd love to see the ethics board reaction to that one
14:59 < fenn> there are some NASA extended bed rest studies as a model of low gravity
15:00 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> They do any brain scans of the test subjects?
15:02 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Also, With the disclaimer "anecdotes aren't data", I'd point out from my own experience that when I stopped exercising for other reasons my chronic illness spiraled hard (before and after I started medication). However, there is the confounding factor of vitamin D exposure to control for in that
15:03 < hprmbridge> Lev> afaik they're still ongoing (new phases, that is, not the same people still strapped to the beds)
15:03 < fenn> yes apparently: https://www.ajnr.org/content/36/11/2048 https://humanresearchroadmap.nasa.gov/Tasks/?i=1459
15:03 < fenn> .t
15:03 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Oh looks good
15:03 < saxo> Structural Brain Changes following Long-Term 6° Head-Down Tilt Bed Rest as an Analog for Spaceflight | American Journal of Neuroradiology
15:04 < fenn> important research for those of us aspiring to become a brain in a vat some day
15:06 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Well human minds are fundamentally embodied so you'd suspect you'd probably need to simulate an external physical world for vat or emulation without significant modification
15:07 < fenn> well that's a baseless assertion
15:08 < fenn> who knows what nell was doing with all that brain matter that is normally dedicated to language processing
15:08 < fenn> "why aren't all blind people geniuses" etc
15:09 < fenn> LLMs and other modalities of AI seem to do fine without a body
15:09 < hprmbridge> Lev> I mean sensory deprivation is a very effective way to break a human brain as fast as possible
15:09 < hprmbridge> Lev> so
15:10 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Well you've got a large set of systems that rely on an external physical world. You could rig up external control of circadian rhythm etc. You go insane without social interaction, lack of sensory feedback leads to all sorts of interesting phenomena from hallucinations to phantom limb pain.
15:12 < fenn> there's a difference between "born embodied, needs adapters" and "human minds are fundamentally embodied"
15:12 < hprmbridge> Lev> i don't think there's any requirement for intelligence to be embodied, but humans are a very specific case generated by a shihty RNG
15:12 < hprmbridge> Lev> we've got all sorts of unnecessary dependencies
15:13 < hprmbridge> Lev> i mean having the adapters is embodiment is it not
15:17 < fenn> hm. 20% of congenitally "limb-deficient" children experience phantom limbs
15:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Okay the semantics of the word "fundamentally" is problematic. However, if for sanity without considerable modification to the internal "wiring" you need to plug the mind into a 3D simulation then I think fundamentally would be the right term.
15:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc>
15:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> The test would be to immobilise someone give them a feeding tube etc and then have them interact purely via a head mounted display and BCI.
15:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc>
15:17 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> And even with this the usage of the visual modality of input is still keeping some of the structure of "space"
15:19 < fenn> yeah well even text has representations of "space"
15:20 < fenn> i'm getting less interested in this philosophical quagmire by the minute. a brain in a vat can inhabit any robot on the network
15:20 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Well if you could input data directly into the brain you could drop space and code it directly into spike-trains
15:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Oh yeah I never argued the embodiment needed to be consistent like one dedicated body, it's just given the fact humans go insane without social interaction, sensory deprivation has weird effects, and your point about congenital phantom limbs.
15:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc>
15:25 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> Well the brains structure assume where signals are coming from and how. If you wished to ditch visual, auditory, etc and replace them with artificial senses you'd need to do considerable rewiring work and given brains evolved to control a biomechanical mechsuit there's likely cludges all over especially in the lower (non-cortex) brain that would need to be considered
15:26 < hprmbridge> alonzoc> I guess we'll see when we have emulations or brains in jars
15:33 < fenn> a well rounded education includes inhabiting a variety of body morphs from an early age
15:41 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "OpenCRISPR" https://twitter.com/thisismadani/status/1782510604999377269
16:00 < fenn> aren't there better things than crispr now
16:03 < fenn> copying the links here since twitter is not an archival medium: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.04.22.590591v1 https://www.profluent.bio/blog/editing-the-human-genome-with-ai https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/22/technology/generative-ai-gene-editing-crispr.html https://forms.gle/zzPFYuesZXZGT5PYA
16:06 < fenn> "we performed exhaustive data mining to construct, to our knowledge, the most extensive dataset of CRISPR systems curated to date. We refer to this resource as the CRISPR-Cas Atlas. All told, we uncovered 5.1 million CRISPR-Cas proteins, expanding the known natural diversity of these systems by 2.7-fold overall, and 4.1-fold for Cas9 specifically."
16:10 < fenn> so of course the elephant in the room is patents
16:11 < fenn> dylan morris is on the board
17:18 < fenn> seems like all the usual gun control arguments apply to https://responsiblebiodesign.ai/
17:19 < hprmbridge> Eli> Sleep, diet, exercise in that order. Wake up everyday at the same time. Challenge your brain to learn new things, like another language for example, to build up a cognitive reserve. If you have any pathological inflammatory issues you need to solve that. The ingredient of tumeric, curcumin, might help.  Unknown if it’s simply due to inflammation reduction or something else. There are special
17:19 < hprmbridge> Eli> versions of curcumin that have good bioavailability and don’t have the common heavy metal issues that is common with tumeric.
17:20 < fenn> turmeric sold in USA doesn't have lead or mercury
17:20 < fenn> i'm sorry but "pray and eat your vegetables" isn't helpful to someone whose existence is being slowly destroyed
17:28 < fenn> profluent says almost nothing about their protein language model
17:29 < fenn> it's trained on 500 million proteins, that's about all i can say
17:30 < hprmbridge> Eli> Press x to doubt
17:32 < hprmbridge> Eli> Forgot to mention, get your blood pressure in check and have a social life. Also, this paper just dropped. We will see if it leads to anything interesting: https://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/17/4/408
17:32 < fenn> .t https://arxiv.org/abs/2206.13517
17:32 < saxo> [2206.13517] ProGen2: Exploring the Boundaries of Protein Language Models
17:33 < fenn> just stop being unhealthy, and stop being poor
17:35 < hprmbridge> Eli> Poor people already tend to make bad health decisions. Also, there seems to be a very strong correlation with Alzheimer’s and pollution. Not sure what the MOA is, if the correlation is real.
17:36 < hprmbridge> Eli> Simply moving to a region with low pollution seems to make a huge difference
17:37 < fenn> airborne particulate matter causes inflammation
17:38 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yeah, that’s a leading hypothesis. It’s concerning enough to me that I upgraded my air filters and am looking to get a PM sensor at some point
17:40 < fenn> even the worst air filter on "low" is orders of magnitude better than none
17:41 < fenn> this site has high resolution PM sensor data for metropolitan areas in the US https://fire.airnow.gov/
17:41 < fenn> it won't tell you about things like mold and pollen
17:42 < fenn> this is also cool for other pollution data like SO4 https://earth.nullschool.net/
17:47 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yeah, the pollution papers really shocked me. I think with a sensor I can see what the PM is like in my room and then test different air filters. I’ve also ordered everyone in the house to always use the vent when cooking.
17:47 < fenn> toasters and electric heaters also make a lot of particulate matter
17:49 < fenn> also that nasa study about potted plants cleaning indoor air turned out to not resemble reality
18:10 < fenn> hmm
18:10 < fenn> .m https://x.com/bryan_johnson/status/1730290432305930689
18:10 < AugustaAda> ​twitter: <bryan_johnson> Data from my first longevity gene therapy: 160% increase in follistatin levels. Achieving our target objective.   ␤  ␤ This therapy ranks 7th among lifespan studies, extending mouse lifespan by 30%.  ␤  ␤ Goals: ␤ . epigenetic age reduction  ␤ . monitoring dozen+ organs for possible… https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GAM5cQCa8AEDTUs.jpg
18:12 < fenn> (minicircle)
18:13 < fenn> .m https://twitter.com/DavidIshee7/status/1782573204571324622
18:13 < AugustaAda> ​twitter: <DavidIshee7> @BenedictSlaney @yashgaroth This is over a years worth of FST levels before and after FST minicircles and a much higher dose than they are using. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLz44C1aUAA9532.jpg
18:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://twitter.com/RuxandraTeslo/status/1780294466177294404
18:39 < fenn> not sure what their point is? try it in humans
18:39 < fenn> ok
18:39 < fenn> fuckin rationalists write too much
19:29 -!- darsie [~darsie@84-112-12-36.cable.dynamic.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
20:03 -!- Gooberpatrol66 [~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:04 < geneh2> we need irresponsible biodesign! Make pointless proteins!
20:04 < geneh2> make a set of proteins that assemble into a working chess set!
20:04 < geneh2> proteins in the shape of internet memes
20:09 < fenn> mine dogecoin in your blood
20:27 < fenn> this is the minicircle follistatin report https://www.rapamycin.news/uploads/short-url/jlJjB748AdNFUJQSMj7dSeROC5i.pdf
20:48 -!- mxz [~mxz@user/mxz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
20:49 -!- mxz [~mxz@user/mxz] has joined #hplusroadmap
20:51 -!- mxz_ [~mxz@user/mxz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
22:54 < fenn> kanzure, yashgaroth, have either of you actually talked to mac davis? i didn't realize he was in austin.
22:56 -!- mxz_ [~mxz@user/mxz] has joined #hplusroadmap
23:00 < fenn> like i'm somewhat surprised he wasn't at the meetup
23:02 < fenn> https://findingfounders.co/episodes/mac-davis-part1
--- Log closed Tue Apr 23 00:00:34 2024