Conversation with #hplusroadmap at Tue 08 Apr 2008 04:48:03 PM CDT on kanzure@irc.freenode.net (irc)
(2008-04-08 16:48:03) The topic for #hplusroadmap is: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Self-replication | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help
(2008-04-08 16:48:28) kanzure: Hey.
(2008-04-08 17:18:32) kanzure: I can't remember my Sourceforge password. Hm.
(2008-04-08 18:24:30) kanzure: "intentional child crippling is wrong" (in the sense of, say, giving the child autism)
(2008-04-08 18:24:38) kanzure: any thoughts?
(2008-04-08 18:47:01) Enki-2: kanzure: it's not crippling to give them autism
(2008-04-08 18:47:18) kanzure: Enki-2: that's my opinion as well
(2008-04-08 18:47:24) kanzure: Enki-2: but on the other hand, what's "crippling"?
(2008-04-08 18:47:31) Enki-2: kanzure: it carries the same risk of negatives as giving them a stronger heart or immunity to aids
(2008-04-08 18:47:43) kanzure: the problem is that this person tied this into a child abuse argument
(2008-04-08 18:47:47) kanzure: giving them autism, he argues, is child abuse
(2008-04-08 18:47:55) Enki-2: kanzure: that's kind of ridiculous
(2008-04-08 18:47:58) kanzure: but who cares if it is child 'abuse'?
(2008-04-08 18:48:10) Enki-2: at least, to someone who has autism
(2008-04-08 18:48:33) Enki-2: i'm sure NTs consider teaching evolution in schools to be child abuse, from time to time
(2008-04-08 18:48:46) Enki-2: depending on current trends
(2008-04-08 18:48:48) kanzure: I do not like to be beaten, I don't like child abuse, but we must admit that it does occur no matter how many times you make a law against it
(2008-04-08 18:49:07) kanzure: so what does it matter if you call it 'wrong' ?
(2008-04-08 18:49:17) kanzure: are you going to go around genetically testing people?
(2008-04-08 18:49:27) kanzure: and taking away the children that have indicators of autism in their genes?
(2008-04-08 18:49:32) kanzure: sounds rather extreme
(2008-04-08 18:53:50) kanzure: Do you see the difficulty?
(2008-04-08 18:54:43) kanzure: is it still child abuse if you have modified their brains? Is it child abuse if you do anything they don't want? There are too many boundaries here. Although I'm not sure how much it can possibly matter.
(2008-04-08 19:05:55) epitron: i think it depends on society
(2008-04-08 19:06:06) epitron: if you give a kid autism, then throw him into a culture of normal people, he'll be alienated
(2008-04-08 19:06:09) epitron: that's pretty shitty
(2008-04-08 19:06:59) epitron: you'd then have to modify his "desire for social acceptance"
(2008-04-08 19:07:04) epitron: which is programmed into us
(2008-04-08 19:07:12) epitron: and make him into a little robot
(2008-04-08 19:07:21) epitron: at which point, you just have a mutilated human that's a pseudo-robot
(2008-04-08 19:07:22) epitron: :)
(2008-04-08 19:11:08) kanzure: > And again, I think a lot of these disagreements have to do with
(2008-04-08 19:11:08) kanzure: > boundary perception. Personally, I am terrified by the idea that
(2008-04-08 19:11:08) kanzure: > someone might decide at some point that I am "suboptimal", and
(2008-04-08 19:11:08) kanzure: > determine that this gives them the right to invade my brain or body
(2008-04-08 19:11:08) kanzure: > for my own perceived good.
(2008-04-08 19:11:12) kanzure: (Anne Corwin)
(2008-04-08 19:13:08) kanzure: Hm. This is interesting:
(2008-04-08 19:13:09) kanzure: > But I do NOT see the fact that in reality choices sometimes need to
(2008-04-08 19:13:09) kanzure: > be made for others as some kind of "permission slip" to say, "Well,
(2008-04-08 19:13:09) kanzure: > we invade people's boundaries in Case X and everything works out
(2008-04-08 19:13:09) kanzure: > better in the end, so therefore, invading boundaries isn't a big
(2008-04-08 19:13:09) kanzure: > deal".
(2008-04-08 19:18:14) greeezy [n=gcohoon@24-205-170-43.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
(2008-04-08 19:18:58) kanzure: Hello greeezy.
(2008-04-08 19:32:00) kanzure: http://www.hansonr.org/mediawiki-1.4.7/index.php/Main_Page
(2008-04-08 19:43:13) greez [n=gcohoon@24-205-170-43.dhcp.wsco.ca.charter.com] entered the room.
(2008-04-08 19:46:20) kanzure: Hello greez.
(2008-04-08 19:54:23) greeezy left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(2008-04-08 20:08:11) greez left the room (quit: ).
(2008-04-08 20:09:58) kanzure: "His imaginative reaction accounting method is to conventional statistical approaches based on species concentrations, as second quantization is to first quantization in quantum theory. I cannot vouch for his algebra at this time, but his basic method is worthy of positive acknowledgment and encouragement." (JPC, Vol 81, No. 25, 2340, 1977)
(2008-04-08 20:18:17) kanzure: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Henry_Markram_computational_neurosci_imitation_project
(2008-04-08 20:23:39) kanzure: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Societal_engineering_knowledge_database#2008-04-08:_Thoughts_on_the_structure
(2008-04-08 22:21:50) kanzure: Hm. A bloke is trying to get me interested in molecular quantum chemistry [for quantum computers].