| --- Day changed Tue Apr 22 2008 | ||
| marainein | and of connexions | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | yes | 00:01 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mailing_lists.html <-- added to the bottom. | 00:01 |
| marainein | you don't find all that stuff hard to keep up with? | 00:02 |
| kanzure | nope | 00:03 |
| Kismet | i must say, some pretty intriguing and astonishing stuff collected on the wiki | 00:09 |
| kanzure | Hi Kismet. :) | 00:10 |
| kanzure | Didn't notice you coming in. Thought you were krebs. | 00:10 |
| Kismet | hello, yeah i kinda came along from ##neuroscience | 00:11 |
| kanzure | Yeah, have a look around the wiki, feel free to drop some comments or ask in here about wtf is going on :) | 00:12 |
| Kismet | yeah i'm just reading and thinking "holy crap, this isn't as wildly impossible as i thought..." | 00:18 |
| kanzure | Since you come from ##neuroscience, maybe you would be interested in the Makram computational neuroscience simulations? http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html re: microcolumns and so on. | 00:20 |
| Kismet | yikes, if only i didn't have to be to work first thing tomorrow | 00:23 |
| Kismet | nighty night | 00:24 |
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| kanzure | Hm. | 20:09 |
| kanzure | fenn: Having git not work with debian etch, and relying on git for the repos, isn't a good idea since apt-get is supposed to *illustrate* its power ;) | 22:16 |
| kanzure | soo I'm thinking we'll implement some repo interconversion tools | 22:16 |
| kanzure | http://mwolson.org/projects/GitCvsSync.html git via a cvs sync | 22:17 |
| kanzure | Anyway, I'm thinking of adding some ui hooks or something to agx-get, there'll be a dir where you drop in plugins and extensions, and basically this has to be heavily protected by the root super user | 22:17 |
| kanzure | and any script added in there will be called at run time :-/ | 22:17 |
| kanzure | ideally these are 'bootup' scripts | 22:18 |
| kanzure | such that they add in hooks and handlers for certain events | 22:18 |
| kanzure | do you think this is a good idea/ | 22:18 |
| fenn | bootup scripts? | 22:18 |
| kanzure | well, I mean that they are ran and then unloaded - they load up code into handlers or hooks, instead of running persistently with their own main script or something | 22:19 |
| kanzure | dunno. I have to work out the architecture for this ... | 22:19 |
| kanzure | basically the ikiwiki+git=>skdb thing is solid, except for review processes and authorization to upload a package - but basically it's done | 22:19 |
| fenn | well, sorta | 22:20 |
| fenn | we need some way to present a yaml file to the user for editing.. ikiwiki doesnt want to do anything but .mdwn files | 22:20 |
| kanzure | http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/03/004214 <-- Slashdot doesn't like git, apparently. They are suggesting svk. | 22:23 |
| kanzure | hrm | 22:23 |
| kanzure | why can't ikiwiki just know that everything in a certain dir is for editing | 22:23 |
| kanzure | and then load up more plugins for content parsing / display over the web | 22:23 |
| fenn | there is probably a plugin, i just havent looked yet | 22:29 |
| kanzure | I don't know how I want to run the whole 'drop some plugins into agx-get' thing though | 22:31 |
| kanzure | I mean, when do we demand agx-get is completely updated? | 22:31 |
| kanzure | would we have them download a new script? or download a plugin that is an install script that writes over the previous version? | 22:32 |
| kanzure | and then for new plugins to parse new metadata files? how would the output be done, how would we let new plugins ask the users for certain things or whatever? | 22:32 |
| kanzure | there'd have to be a number of enforced modes where one could be "do something default and act like everything is okay" versus other modes where "ask the user on every single item" or "ask the user for some major stuff, but don't go all out" - and we'll just police the submitted plugins? | 22:33 |
| fenn | er.. what would plugins be asking the user for? | 22:33 |
| fenn | you could specify a requirement for a plugin version number in the .skdb yaml/metadata file | 22:35 |
| fenn | slashdot is so full of inane banter and false basis for argument its hard to find anything worth worrying about | 22:38 |
| kanzure | hm? | 22:44 |
| kanzure | the plugins would be used to interpret new metadata files | 22:44 |
| kanzure | so when the metadata is of a new type, you go fetch the necessary plugin to make agx-get work | 22:44 |
| kanzure | but you don't want these plugins to do the entire user interface, do you? | 22:45 |
| fenn | yes, plugins are not doing the requesting though, the program launching plugins to parse statements is requesting new plugins | 22:45 |
| kanzure | so then how would it work | 22:45 |
| kanzure | this sounds pretty simple in theory | 22:45 |
| kanzure | uh, git a copy of the metadata only | 22:46 |
| kanzure | then search through it for the thing that the user wants | 22:46 |
| kanzure | then parse the metadata file and give the user options? | 22:46 |
| kanzure | or if the user has already specified parameters, chug through it | 22:46 |
| fenn | you're reading along, reading along, then there's something you dont recognize. it should be the name of a plugin (i guess) | 22:46 |
| kanzure | well, I thought it was the top of a yaml file | 22:46 |
| kanzure | !!yaml/something/new/here/oh/my/god/ | 22:47 |
| fenn | the yaml file writer doesnt know what the user has installed | 22:47 |
| kanzure | and then it'd check your sources.list and go find a package in skdb that offers that functionality for agx-get, and if not it gets a new set of 'metadata files' and finds it again | 22:47 |
| kanzure | sure | 22:47 |
| fenn | so you'd have to list every plugin used in the file, is that ok> | 22:47 |
| kanzure | but agx-get can try loading it, but then it will fail | 22:47 |
| kanzure | hrm | 22:47 |
| kanzure | well | 22:47 |
| kanzure | here's what I thought | 22:47 |
| kanzure | I thought that the file was yaml itself | 22:47 |
| kanzure | so therefore it's a serialized data structure | 22:47 |
| fenn | yes | 22:47 |
| kanzure | meaning that there's really only one class that you truly want to have that data in | 22:48 |
| fenn | but the data doesnt mean anything without some code that can use it | 22:48 |
| kanzure | and that's the class provided *by the plugin* | 22:48 |
| kanzure | right | 22:48 |
| kanzure | so the !!plugin/name/statement that is mandetory in yaml | 22:48 |
| kanzure | is what we use, no? | 22:48 |
| kanzure | it's actually a class name | 22:48 |
| kanzure | but for us, we can conveniently use that for some other code as well | 22:48 |
| fenn | i was thinking just use the name of the plugin, then the name of one of its members.. etc | 22:49 |
| kanzure | see? we can have an skdb package with /that/class/name/ in file main.py, and then some other scripts that would be important for agx-get or something | 22:49 |
| fenn | plugin: | 22:49 |
| fenn | member: | 22:49 |
| kanzure | okay, so /plugin/name/member14141/ | 22:49 |
| fenn | foo bar baz | 22:49 |
| kanzure | nope | 22:49 |
| kanzure | well | 22:49 |
| fenn | why not? | 22:49 |
| kanzure | because the entire yaml file is a serialization of a single class, no? | 22:49 |
| fenn | no | 22:49 |
| kanzure | that changes things | 22:49 |
| fenn | it's a data structure, the data structure can have different code objects in it ( i think) | 22:50 |
| kanzure | so can we request all sub-instances within the file that are of type "needsThisTypeOfPlugin" ?? | 22:50 |
| * fenn looks up yaml types | 22:50 | |
| kanzure | uh | 22:50 |
| kanzure | 'you think' | 22:50 |
| kanzure | that's something rather important | 22:50 |
| fenn | heh | 22:51 |
| fenn | see example 2.24: http://yaml.org/spec/cvs/current.html | 22:54 |
| fenn | it looks like you have to use an exclamation point, but the file structure can be mixed classes | 22:54 |
| fenn | i'm fine with that | 22:54 |
| kanzure | well, wait | 22:55 |
| kanzure | worst-case scenario, we use a specific class that makes for an object with a list of names of plugins | 22:55 |
| kanzure | and then another file for the actual content | 22:55 |
| kanzure | but if mixed classes are allowed, or if the file parsing can be held off until we are sure we have operated per those plugin dependencies, then we're good | 22:55 |
| fenn | the use of a hash of hashes was confusing me i guess | 22:56 |
| kanzure | hm? | 22:56 |
| fenn | plugin: | 22:56 |
| fenn | member: | 22:56 |
| fenn | would translate to plugin=>member=>'foo bar baz' | 22:56 |
| kanzure | I don't think that's useful | 22:57 |
| kanzure | how about | 22:57 |
| fenn | oh, not quite | 22:57 |
| fenn | 'plugin'=>'member'=>'foo bar baz' | 22:57 |
| fenn | bah | 22:57 |
| kanzure | pluginList | 22:57 |
| kanzure | memberUnit | 22:57 |
| kanzure | id: 349104914 mainRepo: fennetic.net/autogenix/autogenix.git | 22:57 |
| kanzure | heh, my \n command was translated to plaintext over here | 22:57 |
| kanzure | oh well | 22:57 |
| kanzure | wait | 22:57 |
| kanzure | was translated to nothing | 22:57 |
| kanzure | whatever | 22:58 |
| kanzure | what would be the best way to do it | 23:04 |
| kanzure | would that allow for updates of all sorts? | 23:04 |
| kanzure | and if so, what would the code to a plugin look like? | 23:04 |
| kanzure | obviously we want agx-get to automatically take that 'pluginList' and check it against a list of known plugins | 23:04 |
| kanzure | and then add the name of a plugin to a confirmed list of approved ones (just for security, it's not all that safe, but it's better than randomly accepting anything dropped in a directory) | 23:05 |
| kanzure | what I am worrying about is conflicts between plugins | 23:05 |
| kanzure | for example, how are they going to be processed? | 23:05 |
| kanzure | which one gets executed first? | 23:05 |
| kanzure | alphabetically? that's rather arbitrary | 23:05 |
| fenn | could add plugin and sha1 hash | 23:07 |
| fenn | for security | 23:07 |
| fenn | what do you mean which gets executed first? they get instantiated in the order they appear in the metadata file | 23:08 |
| kanzure | uhh | 23:13 |
| kanzure | yes, that should have been obvious to me | 23:13 |
| kanzure | I wonder where I put the python files I was working with a few days ago | 23:14 |
| kanzure | ah, it was through IRC, I remember now | 23:15 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-04-22 | 23:19 |
| kanzure | (a code highlighting extension for mediawiki might be a good idea) | 23:19 |
| kanzure | probably GeSHi or something | 23:19 |
| kanzure | http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Syntax_Highlighting | 23:21 |
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