| --- Day changed Wed May 14 2008 | ||
| Vedestin | going now | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| kanzure | $700 for a round trip to Washington D.C., | 00:03 |
| kanzure | does that sound like a deal? | 00:03 |
| ybit | kanzure: (Mankind, WTF?) :P | 00:28 |
| ybit | hehe | 00:28 |
| ybit | saw that this morning | 00:28 |
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| kanzure | Hey Biopunk. | 00:33 |
| Biopunk | hey kanzure | 00:33 |
| Biopunk | new day - new possibilities | 00:33 |
| kanzure | Hm? | 00:34 |
| Biopunk | fact | 00:35 |
| kanzure | This is pretty cramped. But I can make it work. | 00:39 |
| kanzure | This is going to be fun. | 00:39 |
| ybit | kanzure: try kayak.com | 00:45 |
| ybit | oi Phreedom | 00:45 |
| ybit | is your roomie walking like a normal human being now? :P | 00:46 |
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| Vedestin | so what's doin in h+ | 08:41 |
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| * nsh is musing on the nature of orthogonality | 09:46 | |
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| kanzure | Hey. | 17:53 |
| fenn | hullo | 17:54 |
| kanzure | The library computers were taken today, and I was wanting to do some reading on floaters, but instead just recursed through the physical indices and found Steven Bardin Johnson's "Mind Wide Open" (author of 'Emergence' and that other book on brains, ants, and the internet). | 17:55 |
| kanzure | It is a very low-level book in terms of density, so I flipped through it in 30 minutes and saw too many names that I like to be of a coincidence | 17:56 |
| kanzure | Howard Rheingold, Robert Wright, Engelbart ('neural darwinism' / neural selection and competition within the brain), Kurzweil, etc. | 17:56 |
| fenn | what is the book about? | 17:57 |
| kanzure | in it, he talks about an alternative to 'sit and talk' therapy, | 17:57 |
| kanzure | and goes into the idea of observing your own brain with fMRI to optimize your functionality | 17:57 |
| kanzure | which is essentially http://heybryan.org/recursion.html but filtered down ;-) | 17:58 |
| kanzure | Engelbart is a friend of Markram, I think | 17:59 |
| fenn | that's crazy enough it might be true | 17:59 |
| kanzure | E. O. Wilson too, | 18:00 |
| kanzure | although it seems that E.O. Wilson is just the token guy you have to reference | 18:00 |
| kanzure | I tried reading Wilson's book back in 2002 or something like that | 18:00 |
| kanzure | guess I didn't get it | 18:00 |
| kanzure | "Consilience - The Unity of Knowledge" | 18:00 |
| nsh | i wouldn't bother | 18:07 |
| nsh | he just comes off as an arrogative dick with a hammer, calling everything he sees a nail not bothering to do much hammering on a the few actual nails | 18:08 |
| nsh | *and not | 18:08 |
| kanzure | nsh: Wilson? | 18:27 |
| * nsh nods | 18:28 | |
| kanzure | interesting things to see in your email inbox: "Jimmy Wales confirmed you as a friend on facebook" | 18:29 |
| kanzure | todo: email oww-discuss and talk to them about modeling via skdb | 18:45 |
| kanzure | hrm | 18:45 |
| kanzure | fenn: would you be willing to call into the OpenWetWare steering commitee phonecall and put in a few words about what SKDB provides and why OpenWetWare should convert? | 18:46 |
| fenn | um, no | 18:55 |
| fenn | 1) i hate telephones 2) i dont know what openwetware has or what they are trying to do 3) skdb is still vapor | 18:56 |
| kanzure | k | 19:00 |
| kanzure | btw, Paul got back to me and suggested not only paper models but also rube goldberg machines | 19:00 |
| kanzure | I said "eh" to him, it's ok I guess, but good luck trying to make a mechanical system out of folded paper | 19:01 |
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| kanzure | Hi h2i. | 20:11 |
| kanzure | Ah, ybit. | 20:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: Drew Endy might be onboard SKDB. | 20:12 |
| kanzure | On Wednesday 14 May 2008, Drew Endy <endy@mit.edu> wrote: | 20:12 |
| kanzure | > The subject of your email might seem to be disingenuous. You are not | 20:12 |
| kanzure | > proposing "doing slightly more." You are proposing a transition | 20:12 |
| kanzure | > from a monolithic, linear code base to a network-based development | 20:12 |
| kanzure | > community, which would be very exciting. Bill F. and I are going to | 20:12 |
| kanzure | > discuss your ideas in some detail over the next few days and report | 20:12 |
| kanzure | > back. | 20:12 |
| h2i | test | 20:31 |
| h2i | woah | 20:31 |
| h2i | ha | 20:31 |
| * h2i didn't realize i had switched to wireless mode | 20:31 | |
| kanzure | h2i: Did you see the Endy quote? | 20:32 |
| h2i | indeed | 20:34 |
| h2i | that's very exciting | 20:34 |
| kanzure | Why can't I find a "Good news everybody" futurama quote on youtube. | 20:34 |
| h2i | hahaha | 20:35 |
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| kanzure | http://www.antlr.org/ | 21:21 |
| fenn | boo hiss | 21:22 |
| kanzure | why's that? | 21:23 |
| fenn | code generation's a bad idea | 21:23 |
| fenn | and it's java :\ | 21:23 |
| kanzure | oh, java | 21:23 |
| kanzure | code generation -> then what about compiler-compilers? | 21:24 |
| fenn | let's see someone try to do this with origami: http://fennetic.net/pub/camera/DCP_0805.JPG | 21:24 |
| kanzure | woah, that's awesome | 21:24 |
| * kanzure goes to work on his printer | 21:24 | |
| fenn | i had more trouble with the inkjet printer than anything | 21:24 |
| kanzure | Epson *has* to work at some point, right? | 21:24 |
| fenn | srsly | 21:25 |
| kanzure | xsane hasn't worked with the Epson scanner yet, but maybe I didn't spend enough time on it | 21:25 |
| fenn | it was supposed to be r/g/b but i had to fall back to laserjet | 21:25 |
| kanzure | inc. the config files etc. | 21:25 |
| fenn | these paper models are sorta self-assembling | 21:26 |
| fenn | it would be interesting to try different substrates | 21:27 |
| kanzure | Grace Murray Hopper invented the compiler? wtf? sounds false | 21:27 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper | 21:27 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-0_programming_language | 21:29 |
| kanzure | ah, that was just the implementation | 21:29 |
| kanzure | looks like an interpreter | 21:29 |
| fenn | "converted the specification into machine code that could be fed into the computer a second time to execute the program." sounds like a compiler to me | 21:30 |
| fenn | i wonder why they say the moth story is the origin of the term 'debugging' when it clearly says right below the moth "first actual case of a bug being found" | 21:32 |
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| ybit | kanzure: i'm curious what d. endy's response is | 22:02 |
| kanzure | ybit: Me too. I think he'll like it. | 22:02 |
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| kanzure | especially since I've volunteered to single-handedly do the codebase. | 22:02 |
| kanzure | Hi Radcore. | 22:02 |
| ybit | who is bill f.? | 22:02 |
| Radcore | hey | 22:03 |
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| kanzure | ybit: Apparently it's a partner. | 22:03 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: :( I thought you were somebody new. | 22:03 |
| Vedestin | yeah, i know | 22:03 |
| Vedestin | i didn't want to let you down | 22:03 |
| ybit | what exactly was your proposal to him? | 22:12 |
| Vedestin | being a new person | 22:12 |
| ybit | o.O | 22:13 |
| * ybit was speaking to kanzure :P | 22:13 | |
| kanzure | ybit: My proposal. Hm. Let me go find the link. | 22:13 |
| ybit | but i'll talk with you, Vedestin, if you want :) | 22:13 |
| ybit | i'm guessing: http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Skdb | 22:14 |
| kanzure | http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/oww-discuss/2008-May/000427.html | 22:14 |
| ybit | or not | 22:14 |
| kanzure | but it is. | 22:15 |
| fenn | dammit kanzure you wrote the same crappy email and made all the same mistakes | 22:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: shit | 22:34 |
| ybit | so did you email him specifically, because i'm not seeing his response on the mailing list | 22:34 |
| kanzure | fenn: you're going to have to beat me into it | 22:34 |
| kanzure | ybit: he emailed me privately in response | 22:34 |
| fenn | kanzure: first, you have to explain what your idea is, what the idea behind debian is (not just meaningless statistics saying how huge and unmanageable it is) and why this is a good strategy that a reasonable person would want to put effort towards | 22:35 |
| kanzure | "Hi, I think this is a good idea because we can collaborate and do stuff together. Debian does this. They're doing pretty damn well. And even a small guy can profit, example here" | 22:36 |
| kanzure | that format? | 22:36 |
| fenn | example of what NOT to put in your email: "It's incredible that Debian Distribution and Development hasn't fallen into a big steaming heap of broken pieces, with administrators, users and ISPs all screaming at each other and wanting to scratch each others' eyes out on the mailing lists and IRC channels, only to find that those aren't there either. | 22:37 |
| Vedestin | so...you were holding Debian up as an example of how to collaborate? | 22:38 |
| * ybit was happy to see an improvement with Gentoo mentioned ;) | 22:39 | |
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| kanzure | fenn: I didn't write that, but I won't include it. | 22:45 |
| fenn | but.. it's in the email. it's hard for someone skimming through to see what's a quote and what's your writing | 22:46 |
| fenn | end result: confusion and annoyance | 22:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: should I go back to the '>' prefix to lines that aren't mine no matter what? | 22:47 |
| fenn | um.. you should just use less quotes | 22:52 |
| fenn | how do i post a reply to a thread without having any headers? | 22:54 |
| kanzure | that's a good question | 22:55 |
| kanzure | I've thought about that before, and sometimes I think that you should be able to fake the headers | 22:55 |
| kanzure | with telnet, at worst | 22:57 |
| kanzure | http://www.bglug.ca/articles/replyto_header_notes.html | 22:57 |
| kanzure | erm, nevermind with that link | 22:57 |
| kanzure | fenn: I can't really forward you the message as received by mit.edu, since gmail doesn't let me get messages I send to mailing lists | 22:59 |
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| Vedestin | forward it somewhere else and on from there | 23:03 |
| kanzure | how would I forward it if I only have the copy I originally sent? | 23:04 |
| kanzure | it doesn't have the headers that gmail assigned it | 23:04 |
| Vedestin | ok | 23:06 |
| fenn | "appropriately" high barrier - hmph! | 23:26 |
| fenn | i hope he isnt serious | 23:26 |
| fenn | crap i forgot to link back to skdb | 23:26 |
| fenn | oh well | 23:26 |
| kanzure | Russell Hanson? | 23:28 |
| fenn | ya | 23:28 |
| fenn | is he trolling? | 23:28 |
| kanzure | "It seems Bryan can't write an email in plain english, so I feel obligated | 23:28 |
| kanzure | to explain for him:" heh | 23:28 |
| kanzure | Russell? I doubt it. | 23:28 |
| kanzure | http://hansonr.org/ | 23:28 |
| fenn | heh looks much less old and crusty than i pictured | 23:29 |
| kanzure | well, would somebody old type out that much in a single paragraph? | 23:30 |
| kanzure | hrm, I wouldn't know how to answer that question | 23:30 |
| fenn | i bet he writes email in VI | 23:31 |
| ybit | he uses windows and mac osx i do believe | 23:49 |
| ybit | just a guess | 23:50 |
| -!- Vedestin [n=Radcore@d58-111-90-12.sbr3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby"] | 23:50 | |
| ybit | so he's probably not a vi user nor an OS advocate | 23:50 |
| kanzure | what happens when the Mac OS X people realize what their kernel is | 23:52 |
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