| --- Day changed Thu May 15 2008 | ||
| fenn | i said that because he had a vi cheat sheet on his home page | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| fenn | and you can do stuff with vi like.. not put any line wraps into your email | 00:02 |
| kanzure | heh | 00:05 |
| kanzure | I'm sure they have a key-press to fix that | 00:05 |
| fenn | :set wrap | 00:05 |
| ybit | yikes, didn't see all the responses before posting a response | 00:13 |
| kanzure | haha :) | 00:17 |
| kanzure | ybit: where? | 00:18 |
| kanzure | http://mailman.mit.edu/pipermail/oww-discuss/2008-May/thread.html#427 | 00:18 |
| ybit | err... i think i replied directly to him | 00:57 |
| ybit | kanzure, you have gmail | 00:57 |
| kanzure | hm | 00:58 |
| ybit | *doesn't participate much in email discussions* | 00:58 |
| ybit | but um.. i guess i just need to put the mailist address in the to: field | 00:58 |
| ybit | gmail responded directly to him | 00:58 |
| kanzure | hehe | 00:59 |
| kanzure | yes | 00:59 |
| kanzure | ybit: you also need to sign up to the mailing list, probably | 00:59 |
| kanzure | http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/oww-discuss | 00:59 |
| ybit | alright sent | 01:01 |
| ybit | i've already signed up which is how i knew russell responded.. i thought he was spam though until i got a response from him just now telling me that i sent the email directly to him instead of to the mailing list | 01:02 |
| kanzure | ah, I see it. | 01:04 |
| ybit | it just seems odd that he would have those statements on OPEN|WETware.org. Though openwetware is mostly used by university students and professors, it's associated with Biobricks which advocates free biological parts. And then hist statement concerning businesses not interested in open and wet is bull. Codon Devices is betting on the biobrick parts | 01:05 |
| ybit | *being open | 01:05 |
| ybit | i didn't want to hit him too hard, it's not my style | 01:06 |
| ybit | we all make mistakes sometimes | 01:06 |
| ybit | for me, it's often :) | 01:06 |
| kanzure | Russell replied onlist | 01:09 |
| ybit | i see you've already handled it :) | 01:12 |
| ybit | *shudders at his response* | 01:13 |
| kanzure | I wonder what Russell is thinking. | 01:13 |
| kanzure | g'night | 01:14 |
| ybit | gn kanzure | 01:15 |
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| fenn | modular open-source personal gadget: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVC53pO08oo | 17:51 |
| kanzure | uhh, "if I have no app that tells it to launch rocket at head, well." | 17:55 |
| kanzure | rather interesting example.. | 17:56 |
| kanzure | now, it talks about "all of the community's apps that correspond with your components" | 17:56 |
| kanzure | what does this mean, debian repository setup, or what? | 17:56 |
| fenn | mumble mumble java sdk | 18:00 |
| kanzure | for their platform? | 18:00 |
| kanzure | I dunno if I like the idea of a java sdk/repo combo | 18:00 |
| kanzure | I dislike java in general, but Paul was suggesting jython to me, a way to use python within java | 18:01 |
| kanzure | but again, it's questionable in my opinion | 18:01 |
| fenn | http://bugcommunity.com/wiki/index.php/Download_an_application_from_BUGnet | 18:01 |
| kanzure | it's proprietary, it's to be expected | 18:02 |
| kanzure | even though it's open source | 18:02 |
| kanzure | "log in to BUGnet" | 18:02 |
| kanzure | just sounds like it to me. | 18:02 |
| fenn | well.. i dunno | 18:02 |
| fenn | i dont think its malicious, just unaware | 18:03 |
| fenn | they dont teach distributed open development in school, ya know | 18:03 |
| kanzure | definitely not malacious | 18:03 |
| kanzure | fenn: well they should | 18:03 |
| kanzure | :) | 18:03 |
| kanzure | "How to be a good person" | 18:03 |
| fenn | uh, how exactly would that work? | 18:03 |
| fenn | 'for your final project, you have to come up with something and/or join a project already in existence and possibly achieve something (in cooperation with other people who may or may not exist) | 18:04 |
| fenn | school fails completely in all the places where distributed open development shines | 18:05 |
| fenn | it's too big | 18:07 |
| fenn | the bug platform thingy | 18:07 |
| kanzure | the platform is too big ? | 18:07 |
| kanzure | or you mean the possibilities are too broad? | 18:08 |
| fenn | yeah it's just over pocket sized | 18:08 |
| fenn | you can increase functionality within a form factor, but changing a form factor is hard (especially when you set out to create an industrial ecology) | 18:08 |
| kanzure | oh, I need to go read the latest oww emails if any | 18:09 |
| fenn | not much | 18:09 |
| kanzure | blah, none | 18:09 |
| fenn | did they have first robotics at your school? | 18:13 |
| kanzure | yes, and it sucked | 18:14 |
| kanzure | the compiler sucked | 18:14 |
| kanzure | hurray for proprietary software | 18:14 |
| kanzure | "If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together" | 18:14 |
| kanzure | They did it so that you wouldn't, you know, do any *real* programming. | 18:15 |
| kanzure | and have an unfair advantage | 18:15 |
| kanzure | 'unfair' | 18:15 |
| fenn | thats what i expected but then someone i know was talking about doing C++ programming for first and i was like "what?" | 18:16 |
| kanzure | http://www.pythoncad.org/ <-- seen it? thoughts? | 18:16 |
| kanzure | yeah, you do some C/C++ variant for it | 18:16 |
| kanzure | but you must use their library calls - which isn't a bad thing, but you can't add in your own components to the hardware | 18:16 |
| fenn | pythoncad shoots low, and didnt achieve its goals (the interface sucks) and the code is way too complicated for its own good | 18:16 |
| kanzure | IIRC. It was my freshman year, so it's a bit fuzzy at the moment. | 18:16 |
| fenn | thancad is better | 18:16 |
| fenn | they should just let people do whatever they can with the $500 | 18:18 |
| fenn | i'd love to see people "cheat" by using something that costs less and works better | 18:19 |
| fenn | if it costs half as much, you get to field two robots | 18:19 |
| fenn | if they finagle a deal with a local business, so much the better | 18:19 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:23 |
| kanzure | I think that it's very much about the people that are assigned to help you out | 18:23 |
| kanzure | you're supposed to get engineers from your local community | 18:23 |
| kanzure | but around here that means somebody from Freescale, AMD, etc. Which is fine, but nobody necessarily knows anything about robotics, automation, etc. That's stuff the north-east of the country. | 18:23 |
| kanzure | *country knows about. | 18:24 |
| fenn | hmm no fabs nearby? | 18:24 |
| fenn | they have regional competitions right? | 18:24 |
| kanzure | I haven't entirely investigated it, but if you look at maps you'll see the north-east is *packed* with fabs | 18:24 |
| kanzure | yes | 18:24 |
| kanzure | Region 13 is basically all of Texas though | 18:24 |
| kanzure | fenn: what's next? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | I've lost my way. | 18:31 |
| kanzure | just work on agx-get ? | 18:31 |
| kanzure | and improve my own presentation of the whole system (because apparently I suck :-)) ? | 18:32 |
| fenn | heh | 18:34 |
| fenn | uh, example metadata file | 18:34 |
| kanzure | ah, right | 18:57 |
| kanzure | but we already did that | 18:57 |
| kanzure | with the example python class | 18:57 |
| kanzure | brb, cleaning cat stuff | 18:57 |
| kanzure | http://twitter.com/kanzure <-- it's like crack, except it's my braindroppings | 18:58 |
| fenn | so, er.. these are just text.. /me wanna link! | 19:04 |
| fenn | i'm interested in the discussion with anissimov | 19:05 |
| fenn | where did the word 'metarepo' come from? | 19:06 |
| fenn | hmm interesting fernhout arrived at the papercraft conclusion independently | 19:10 |
| kanzure | no, | 19:24 |
| kanzure | he suggested origami | 19:24 |
| kanzure | I suggested origami to you | 19:24 |
| kanzure | you modified with papercraft | 19:24 |
| kanzure | and it somehow got to him | 19:24 |
| fenn | i guess i should sign up to openvirgle | 19:24 |
| kanzure | fenn, I've been thinking. The big problem with information management is seeing everything at once on a screen, and organizing all of it. | 19:24 |
| kanzure | I never quite have enough deskspace | 19:25 |
| kanzure | fenn: also see the recent messages; I have a reply cooking up in another window at the moment | 19:25 |
| fenn | ya engelbart had the right idea | 19:25 |
| kanzure | So, because of the deskspace problem, | 19:25 |
| fenn | zooming interface | 19:25 |
| kanzure | yeah, but also | 19:25 |
| kanzure | I was thinking a few moments ago about a hanging interface | 19:25 |
| kanzure | the floor is really a lot of good space | 19:25 |
| fenn | not just 'floating 3d square with 2d graphics on it' zooming, but semantic zooming | 19:25 |
| kanzure | (yes, I agree with semantic zooming; could be improved with information gradients within brain and mindbots to elaborate; but that's not what I'm talking about) | 19:26 |
| kanzure | I mean physically hanging, | 19:26 |
| kanzure | like you're hanging from the ceiling | 19:26 |
| kanzure | and the information is below you | 19:26 |
| fenn | hey why not just float in a tank of water | 19:26 |
| kanzure | the floor's made up of either lots of CRTs or a giant screen, either way | 19:26 |
| kanzure | where's the data? | 19:26 |
| fenn | all around you! | 19:26 |
| kanzure | .. | 19:26 |
| kanzure | you don't like the hanging idea? :( | 19:27 |
| fenn | babelfish! | 19:27 |
| kanzure | because you could be moved from place to place with automated rollers, easily enough | 19:27 |
| kanzure | screenspace wouldn't be an issue | 19:27 |
| fenn | how about a robocrane | 19:27 |
| kanzure | that seems more complicated | 19:27 |
| kanzure | but serves same function | 19:27 |
| kanzure | I need to upload my logs with TheWOLPRO, we were discussing some alternative computer interfaces | 19:28 |
| fenn | i dont really get it, sorry.. it's always going to be easier to move pictures around a screen than to move the viewer from screen to screen | 19:28 |
| kanzure | such as the setup in The Matrix (not Neo's) | 19:28 |
| kanzure | so you could do a rotating chair I guess | 19:28 |
| fenn | wait, which setup? the keyboards and crt's everywhere or shelves of stuff flying past you? | 19:28 |
| kanzure | keyboards and crt's | 19:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/interfaces.html | 19:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Brainstate_augmentation_setup would be paired with it obviously (a biotech way of maintaining your programming session at all costs) | 19:29 |
| fenn | i like those interactive touch tables, cross that with a drafting table and you'd have something usable | 19:29 |
| fenn | but as my friend with 2x24" lcd's points out, when the viewing angle gets too high your eyes and neck start to hurt from looking around too much | 19:30 |
| kanzure | yep | 19:30 |
| fenn | so he prefers higher res smaller monitors after all | 19:30 |
| kanzure | hanging would work pretty well | 19:30 |
| kanzure | body-support, it'd be pretty comfortable | 19:30 |
| kanzure | I wonder if Google would fund the [[brainstate augmentation setup]] project ... surely they have some 'super programmers' that they want to suck every penny out of | 19:31 |
| fenn | ever seen a logarithmic mapping? will try to find some pictures to explain.. | 19:31 |
| kanzure | fisheye views? | 19:31 |
| fenn | you know those hyperbolic tiling? sorta like that | 19:33 |
| kanzure | yeah, okay | 19:33 |
| kanzure | I've wanted something like that for a while now | 19:33 |
| fenn | this img looks similar to what i remember http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.neverendingbooks.org/DATA/dedekind1877.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.neverendingbooks.org/index.php/tag/hyperbolic&start=32&h=321&w=550&sz=27&tbnid=tnlyJSUmpMpEsM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=133&hl=en&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhyperbolic%2Binterface%26start%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN&um=1 | 19:34 |
| fenn | oh ffs url spam | 19:34 |
| fenn | grar ok nevermind, cant find it | 19:36 |
| fenn | hmm i can think of some main things that kick you out of 'the mode' | 19:38 |
| fenn | mostly, sharp unpredictable noises associated with anxiety or threats | 19:38 |
| kanzure | yes | 19:38 |
| kanzure | I have been discovering that 'faces' are high up there on the list | 19:39 |
| kanzure | also, not knowing what to do next | 19:39 |
| fenn | hmm | 19:39 |
| fenn | faces? like faces of people you recognize or any faces? | 19:39 |
| kanzure | for me it seems to be either, but I need to do more experimenting | 19:39 |
| kanzure | for example, I can try flashing up a random face on my screen when I'm writing code | 19:39 |
| kanzure | and see what that does | 19:39 |
| kanzure | or the rate at which it starts to be a problem | 19:40 |
| fenn | well, it would be distracting | 19:40 |
| kanzure | I suppose. | 19:40 |
| fenn | simply because you have some random thing popping up | 19:40 |
| kanzure | I think I can handle images of faces | 19:40 |
| kanzure | images are images | 19:40 |
| kanzure | real people are annoying and don't have a clue :( | 19:40 |
| fenn | ya the cat is squeaking at me, doesnt have a clue | 19:40 |
| kanzure | sometimes :) | 19:40 |
| kanzure | hrm, I can sometimes deal with cats | 19:40 |
| fenn | this cat is annoying | 19:40 |
| kanzure | for many years I had a rather smart cat in a drawer beside me | 19:41 |
| kanzure | haha | 19:41 |
| kanzure | and he'd just sit there and wait for me to press compile to scratch his ears | 19:41 |
| kanzure | do not - under any circumstance - teach a kitten to talk | 19:41 |
| kanzure | he'll be yapping all the time | 19:42 |
| fenn | take this transform, apply it to your virtual desktop, and do head-tracking to move the 'zoom' point around http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://picard.ups-tlse.fr/~cheritat/GalII/mof6js.png&imgrefurl=http://picard.ups-tlse.fr/~cheritat/GalII/galery.html&start=6&h=600&w=800&sz=311&tbnid=ucUjLQrLGWSIRM:&tbnh=107&tbnw=143&hl=en&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dconformal%2Bgrid%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG&um=1 | 19:51 |
| fenn | it should work in 3d too | 19:52 |
| fenn | oops sry this one: http://picard.ups-tlse.fr/~cheritat/GalII/mof6js.png | 19:53 |
| fenn | you wouldn't see the grid while using it of course | 19:59 |
| kanzure | http://dx.doi.org/10.1109/E-SCIENCE.2007.72 | 20:02 |
| kanzure | http://ai.isi.edu/div3/pubs/papers/gil2007wings.pdf | 20:02 |
| fenn | "nanochip plans to make MEMS cantilever arrays to store 100GB on a chip by 2010" | 20:04 |
| fenn | using polarization to store data | 20:05 |
| kanzure | fenn: I found something interesting. | 21:10 |
| kanzure | A relative of mine. I never knew her last name, but just got it via facebook. | 21:11 |
| kanzure | http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Judy+Farrin%22 | 21:11 |
| kanzure | "A programming model for automated decomposition on heterogeneous clusters of microprocessors" | 21:13 |
| fenn | by sean peisert and scott baden? | 21:14 |
| fenn | i dont see the connection | 21:15 |
| fenn | oh, she was his school teacher | 21:16 |
| kanzure | she also gave me a collection of C books back when I was 12 | 21:51 |
| kanzure | after asking, of course | 21:51 |
| kanzure | fenn: looks like we might have a publication opportunity | 21:51 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.U._Sirius | 21:51 |
| kanzure | R.U. Sirius is running a new magazine and he's offered me 600 to 1k words, if it's dense + accessible. re: SKDB. | 21:51 |
| kanzure | "The Revolution Party" | 21:52 |
| kanzure | "The Open Source Party" | 21:52 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/2008-05-15_bioscenarios.html <-- I guess I was babbling a bit. | 23:44 |
| kanzure | fenn, nsh, ybit - http://heybryan.org/2008-05-15_bioscenarios.html <-- I guess I was babbling a bit. It's my analysis of a paper on the future of biotechnology and the perceived threats of the tech on govt and people etc. | 23:46 |
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