| --- Day changed Sat May 17 2008 | ||
| kanzure | fenn: where's mesh->unfold ? specifically 'mesh' | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | I'm in 2.4.4 or something, | 00:01 |
| kanzure | so mesh isn't a menu at the top | 00:01 |
| kanzure | hm, I was there a few minutes ago | 00:02 |
| kanzure | ah, so it's in Edit Mode | 00:02 |
| kanzure | hrm | 00:06 |
| kanzure | fenn: maybe it needs a texture ? | 00:28 |
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| fenn | in the upper right there's a box/menu thingy that you can pull down and select 'scripts' | 00:43 |
| fenn | but i figured you'd already done that since you have an svg file | 00:43 |
| fenn | actually its the lower left of most view windows | 00:45 |
| fenn | bad explanation. i'm out of phase | 00:46 |
| fenn | just logged on because i was laying in bed thinking 'matter compiler' isnt quite right, what we're really doing is a 'design compiler' | 00:46 |
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| kanzure | fenn: 'matter compiler' was in the context of figuring out how to use the instruments in the fablab to make a defined object | 00:56 |
| kanzure | 'design compiler' sounds more like something that would compile designs | 00:56 |
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| kanzure | huh, blender's doing a blender repository | 13:29 |
| kanzure | http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?p=1118231#post1118231 <-- so I posted. I suck at writing, by the way. | 13:29 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/BlenderDev/DbBlender | 13:30 |
| kanzure | ew, a repo via mysql | 13:31 |
| kanzure | http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=123108 | 13:31 |
| kanzure | http://www.blender-materials.org/ | 13:31 |
| kanzure | http://www.ece.fr/~schroder/showPlace/BlenderRepoProj/ | 13:32 |
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| fenn | a program compiler turns abstract source code into concrete machine code, design compiler turns abstract designs into concrete physical artifacts | 14:57 |
| fenn | but a compiler doesn't have to go all the way to machine code, can go to some bytecode (and design compiler doesnt have to physically realize the artifact either) | 14:57 |
| kanzure | that works, I agree now | 14:57 |
| kanzure | right, the design compiler could ideally go all the way up to the point where all of the machines can have the programs downloaded (or managed by a scheduler for the network; whatever) | 14:58 |
| * kanzure has been watching blender vids, but hasn't been going far | 15:00 | |
| kanzure | *getting far | 15:00 |
| fenn | i think html tutorials are better | 15:00 |
| fenn | they actually tell you what the keystrokes are, etc | 15:01 |
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| fenn | blender file format is the worst thing ever | 15:04 |
| Phreedom | fenn: legacy stuff can be scary | 15:55 |
| kanzure | fenn: I seem to be able to absorb personalities from others. | 16:02 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: absorb? | 16:11 |
| * Phreedom runs away and hides | 16:11 | |
| kanzure | Maybe I mean understand. Hm. Anyway, /me gets back to blender. | 16:13 |
| kanzure | It shouldn't be this hard to make a hexapod. | 16:13 |
| fenn | heh | 16:54 |
| fenn | i watched two engineers from ndsu spend a couple hours in pro/e trying to make a hexapod model and not get anywhere | 16:55 |
| kanzure | this is retarded | 16:55 |
| fenn | you might have better luck in a more "mathematical" 3d modeler like k3d or one of the many POV modelers | 16:57 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/shots/2008-05-17.png <-- following the instructions to move a vertex | 16:59 |
| kanzure | 170 MB. hahah | 16:59 |
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| kanzure | Hey Biopunk. | 17:01 |
| Biopunk | hi kanzure | 17:02 |
| Biopunk | seen this: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978371 ? | 17:03 |
| Biopunk | and this: http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978433 | 17:03 |
| kanzure | Nope, but it's neat | 17:03 |
| fenn | so.. what's that blobby thing? | 17:03 |
| kanzure | fenn: my pathetic attempts at vertex modifying a sphere | 17:04 |
| fenn | oo oo is it a brain? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | nah | 17:04 |
| kanzure | just playing around | 17:04 |
| fenn | well, for one thing, nurbs seems like a more appropriate way to do it | 17:04 |
| kanzure | but that's a good idea | 17:04 |
| kanzure | nurbs? | 17:04 |
| fenn | add->surface->nurbs sphere | 17:05 |
| Biopunk | blender? | 17:05 |
| fenn | ya | 17:05 |
| Biopunk | cool | 17:05 |
| fenn | and if you are a die-hard mesh addict, check out the catmull-* subdivision | 17:06 |
| kanzure | hurray, I got a loop | 17:11 |
| fenn | on purpose? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | yeah | 17:13 |
| kanzure | amazing | 17:13 |
| kanzure | this is like hour 9 | 17:13 |
| kanzure | so at this rate I'll be a master in a few decades | 17:13 |
| fenn | if you're trying to recreate the torus knot thingy, should know that i drew it out as a nurbs curve first, then extruded a triangle along it and then converted to a mesh | 17:13 |
| kanzure | how do you convert to mesh? | 17:15 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/pub/irc/nurb-curve.png | 17:15 |
| fenn | alt-c | 17:15 |
| fenn | i was following this tutorial (sorta) http://chronosphere.home.comcast.net/~chronosphere/tut-blend-knot.htm | 17:16 |
| fenn | dunno wtf he is talking about empties and hooks though | 17:16 |
| fenn | oh ya 'c' makes the curve cyclic | 17:17 |
| kanzure | I ended up with a flat surface :) | 17:17 |
| fenn | hm? the curve? or the unfolded mesh | 17:17 |
| kanzure | curve | 17:18 |
| kanzure | lemme just follow the tutorail | 17:18 |
| kanzure | *tutorial | 17:18 |
| fenn | ok. i would just move the nurbs control points around in edit mode instead of making hooks | 17:19 |
| fenn | its much easier to understand | 17:19 |
| kanzure | btw, the Google 3D model repository isn't useful | 17:20 |
| kanzure | there's no good Google Sketchup 5 or 6 -> blender conversion script | 17:20 |
| fenn | lamesauce | 17:20 |
| fenn | google doesn't exactly cooperate | 17:20 |
| kanzure | it wouldn't take much effort | 17:21 |
| fenn | the sketchup interface has some neat ideas | 17:22 |
| fenn | i'd definitely want to steal some of them | 17:22 |
| --- Log closed Sat May 17 17:30:12 2008 | ||
| --- Log opened Sun May 18 00:18:20 2008 | ||
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| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help | 00:18 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008] | 00:18 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 00:18 | |
| [ Biopunk] [ fenn] [ kanzure] [ krebs] [ ybit] | 00:18 | |
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| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 00:19 | |
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| kanzure | We are going to need to start off with some good storage space, some machinery of our own and so on. This isn't going to go well if all we can do is just use printers. | 01:09 |
| kanzure | At the very least some good server space. | 01:15 |
| fenn | i'm sure we can scrounge up a git host somewhere (savannah or berlios?) | 01:23 |
| fenn | or both | 01:24 |
| kanzure | right, but we need to be doing standardized manufacturing, so we'll actually need to be working with some equipment | 01:26 |
| kanzure | unless we expect other people to pick up our slack for us | 01:26 |
| kanzure | which is not the way projects are typically done :) | 01:26 |
| fenn | sure, well, i'd love to have a datron dynamics raptor, but we gotta keep it realistic | 01:26 |
| fenn | and 99% of hobbyists dont have machinery of any sort (maybe a drill press) | 01:27 |
| kanzure | oh, right, we could use one of the common diy drill press projects | 01:27 |
| fenn | what common diy drill press projects? | 01:27 |
| kanzure | one of those open source microcontroller kits + drill + some high powered servo from digikey | 01:28 |
| kanzure | oh, stuff | 01:28 |
| kanzure | hold on | 01:28 |
| fenn | to do.. what? | 01:28 |
| kanzure | to make more tools | 01:28 |
| fenn | aha | 01:28 |
| kanzure | hm, Opera was dead in the background | 01:28 |
| kanzure | so not just a sec :( | 01:28 |
| kanzure | I have a good number of links to diy cnc, lathes, etc. | 01:28 |
| fenn | ok, no need to spam me then | 01:28 |
| kanzure | k | 01:29 |
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| fenn | if plain threaded rod works out for a beginner hexapod, then you only need a cnc hotwire to make the hexapod, and from there the world's your rowboat | 01:30 |
| fenn | (and a manual drill press of course) | 01:31 |
| Vedestin | hexapod? | 01:31 |
| kanzure | it's a byproduct of fenn's brain | 01:31 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/machines/hexapod/ | 01:31 |
| fenn | it's not my idea, just my passion | 01:31 |
| kanzure | it's secreted in the dorsal lateral subsection of the hypothalamic cortical circuits | 01:31 |
| fenn | oops one sec | 01:31 |
| kanzure | haha, I thought the server was dead ? | 01:31 |
| fenn | oh, heh. http://fennetic.net/machines/hexapod | 01:32 |
| fenn | i set it back up | 01:32 |
| Vedestin | why do you need this | 01:34 |
| kanzure | why do you need to breath? | 01:35 |
| fenn | because it's better than a milling machine, more appropriate for people who dont own a house + pickup-truck | 01:35 |
| kanzure | fenn: I think he's asking more broadly than that | 01:35 |
| kanzure | not sure though | 01:35 |
| fenn | a lot of people dont understand the underlying premise of building things yourself | 01:35 |
| kanzure | isn't that peculiar. | 01:36 |
| fenn | my parents for example | 01:36 |
| kanzure | I mean, really. they understand sex | 01:36 |
| fenn | sex isnt about self replication, it's about error correction | 01:36 |
| kanzure | no, I mean building | 01:37 |
| fenn | um.. what? | 01:37 |
| kanzure | you said that people don't seem to understand the idea of building things themselves | 01:37 |
| kanzure | the premise of building things on your own, or i.e. the basis of plowing women | 01:38 |
| fenn | i dont really see the connection | 01:38 |
| kanzure | 'basis' is probably a little strong | 01:38 |
| kanzure | the connection is that they want to do it | 01:38 |
| kanzure | and that they are the ones that have to get it happening | 01:38 |
| kanzure | yes? | 01:38 |
| kanzure | bad example | 01:39 |
| fenn | indeed | 01:39 |
| Vedestin | so you're going to build one of these platforms and mount it under a radial drill | 01:39 |
| Vedestin | to use as a milling machine | 01:39 |
| fenn | no, more likely i'll put a milling spindle on the platform | 01:39 |
| fenn | see hextatic | 01:39 |
| fenn | er, http://fennetic.net/machines/hextatic | 01:39 |
| fenn | this way all the forces are contained within the machine structure | 01:40 |
| fenn | no need to bolt to a concrete slab or whatever | 01:41 |
| fenn | kanzure: i really think the cultural lack of wanting to build things is going to be a big obstacle | 01:42 |
| kanzure | what about the maker culture? | 01:42 |
| kanzure | it seems to be growing | 01:42 |
| fenn | they're dilettantes | 01:42 |
| kanzure | or at least exhibiting itself | 01:42 |
| fenn | nothing practical ever comes out of make | 01:42 |
| kanzure | synthetic biology | 01:43 |
| fenn | where | 01:43 |
| Vedestin | bolting things to a concrete slab is pretty cheap | 01:43 |
| fenn | Vedestin: only if you have a concrete slab | 01:43 |
| Vedestin | yeah | 01:43 |
| Vedestin | laying a concrete slab is a bit more expensive... | 01:44 |
| kanzure | http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/02/an_open_source_synthetic.html | 01:44 |
| kanzure | oh shit | 01:44 |
| kanzure | that's me. | 01:44 |
| fenn | rofl | 01:44 |
| kanzure | there's a channel somewhere near hplusroadmap in terms of number of users that does openstreetmapping or something | 01:46 |
| kanzure | might be good for resource mapping | 01:46 |
| fenn | what sort of resources? | 01:48 |
| Vedestin | thats pretty interesting fenn | 01:49 |
| Vedestin | the hextatic | 01:49 |
| kanzure | fenn: stuff in the area, metals, stuff under the ground, geotagging, whatever gets us our stuffs | 01:50 |
| kanzure | was it you who mentioned homeless people in a soc-net ? | 01:50 |
| kanzure | anyway, we could use homeless mobs to do geotagging | 01:50 |
| kanzure | plus tell them where to get free food at the same time | 01:50 |
| fenn | hey this arduino nano looks halfway decent: http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/05/arduino_nano.html | 01:51 |
| kanzure | arduino the microcontroller kit | 01:51 |
| fenn | arduino the meme | 01:51 |
| kanzure | hm | 01:51 |
| fenn | oh, fifty bucks, nevermind :P | 01:53 |
| fenn | anyway it'd make a good prototyping tool at the cost of components | 01:54 |
| kanzure | yes | 01:55 |
| kanzure | btw, I think an alternative computing architecture (not silicon) is a priority -- eventually | 01:55 |
| kanzure | certainly not now, and certainly not when things start to roll | 01:55 |
| kanzure | but the idea of maybe using graphene to sketch out circuits on a flake is much easier to implement than silicon manufacturing | 01:55 |
| fenn | i'm sure the journal of unconventional computing has an idea or two | 01:58 |
| fenn | eh maybe not | 02:00 |
| fenn | hmmm.. http://www.paper-wars.com/?q=news/n | 02:03 |
| kanzure | oh, I know! | 02:03 |
| kanzure | smoke signals! | 02:03 |
| fenn | yes, all we need is a couple acres of forest and some homeless people (indians) | 02:04 |
| fenn | i mean.. wait, how's that supposed to solve anything? | 02:04 |
| kanzure | mapping out resources | 02:06 |
| kanzure | so that we can use them | 02:06 |
| kanzure | but smoke signals was meant as a solution to computing without silicon | 02:06 |
| Vedestin | smoke signals? | 02:26 |
| kanzure | sure, it's just flipping bits | 02:27 |
| Vedestin | im not sure it's really computing | 02:27 |
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| kanzure | http://www.directededge.com/Bungipedia-Linus.jpg | 03:10 |
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| Phreedom | fenn: are there any news re: your hexapod? are you going to/building it already? | 06:00 |
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| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Societal_engineering_knowledge_database#2008-05-14:_pepakura New additions made (scroll down) | 14:45 |
| kanzure | Although for some reason my brain isn't making the leap that it has to. Very werid. | 14:45 |
| kanzure | *weird. | 14:45 |
| nsh | should | 15:00 |
| nsh | try making a | 15:00 |
| nsh | (*racks brain for name...*) | 15:00 |
| nsh | it's the midpoint of a particular family of sphere eversions | 15:01 |
| nsh | although, that might be difficult because of the self-intersection | 15:01 |
| nsh | ah, Morin surface | 15:04 |
| kanzure | blender has so thoroughly wooped my ass | 15:18 |
| kanzure | I spent way too many hours yesterday on it | 15:18 |
| kanzure | so now I'm left wondering what it is that I am going to do next | 15:18 |
| kanzure | putting blender in between you and your goals is a *bad* idea | 15:18 |
| nsh | indeed | 15:20 |
| kanzure | hexayurts = very cheap houses | 16:51 |
| kanzure | (according to Noah) | 16:51 |
| fenn | yeah but... something | 16:51 |
| fenn | better than many designs | 16:52 |
| fenn | huh. the radio antenna on hexayurt.com looks exactly like the solar concentrators i was looking at yesterday | 16:53 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/pipermail/hplusroadmap/2008-May/thread.html <-- new stuffing | 16:53 |
| fenn | hexayurt.com is conspicuously missing the actual design files | 16:56 |
| fenn | i.e. "dont make it out of isocyanurate" but wtf do they make it frmo? | 16:56 |
| fenn | this is as close as it gets to a plan: "Look at the picture and go through the steps in your mind again. You get the boards and you get the tape. Then you cut some of the boards into triangles, and tape them together to make the roof, and then you tape the roof to the walls and you are done. You just built a Hexayurt." | 16:58 |
| kanzure | that sucks | 16:59 |
| kanzure | but otherwise it looks interesting | 16:59 |
| kanzure | wait | 17:00 |
| kanzure | http://www.appropedia.org/Hexayurt_schematics | 17:00 |
| kanzure | hm, "Appropedia - the sustainability wiki" | 17:00 |
| kanzure | they must hate me :) | 17:00 |
| fenn | yes i'm looking at that page - there's no plans on it | 17:00 |
| fenn | its all just "this is a hexayurt. this is easy. if you mess up you must be a fucking retard" | 17:01 |
| kanzure | the second image is "How to build it" | 17:01 |
| fenn | not so | 17:02 |
| fenn | look at the triangles on the roof, they're actually made of two triangles | 17:02 |
| fenn | but in the drawing it's just one triangle - how does that nest from a 4x8 sheet | 17:02 |
| kanzure | wait, what? | 17:03 |
| fenn | roof panels approximate an equilateral triangle (with beveled edges maybe) | 17:03 |
| fenn | i'm just saying there's lots of opportunity to mess up because there isnt enough information | 17:04 |
| fenn | oh crap i was looking at http://www.appropedia.org/Hexayurt_Playa | 17:05 |
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| fenn | the world’s first commercially available automatic electric solar powered hybrid robotic lawn mower. The mower will cut for around 40 minutes, and then charge for 40 minutes in its charging station. http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/13290/14314/hysqvarna-auto-mower-solar-power.phtml | 18:07 |
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| fenn | ok, so, not as cool as i thought | 18:10 |
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| kanzure | Heh heh, focus :) | 18:48 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/2008-05-18 | 18:48 |
| kanzure | trying to write the essay for Sirius' H+ magazine. | 18:48 |
| nsh | can't stop the signal, mal | 19:08 |
| * nsh goes to sleep dreaming of hang drums and infrasound helmholtz resonance in quartz crystals at the great pyramid of giza | 19:08 | |
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| -!- ybit [n=u1@unaffiliated/ybit] has quit [Remote closed the connection] | 19:27 | |
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| kanzure | So, I got my graduation present, or at least knowledge of it. | 19:53 |
| kanzure | As it turns out, my grandmother wishes to purchase all of my first year college textbooks. | 19:53 |
| kanzure | This is rather problematic, considering I was planning on stealing all of them. | 19:53 |
| fenn | normally, i'd say "what a lame graduation present" but it's understandable, given your book mania | 20:07 |
| kanzure | I suppose so | 20:07 |
| kanzure | but I was going to steal them anyway | 20:08 |
| kanzure | hrm | 20:08 |
| kanzure | so maybe I can get into first year classes that I actually want the books to | 20:08 |
| kanzure | instead of some stupid curriculum | 20:08 |
| fenn | you need to explain why ubuntu/debian is relevant to skdb | 20:11 |
| kanzure | I could do a "look at how well it works" tie-in | 20:12 |
| fenn | in the big blank space between debian quotage and 'concerns of the ai symbol grounding problem' | 20:12 |
| kanzure | there? or before the debian quotage? | 20:12 |
| fenn | dunno, there is just this big non-sequitur | 20:13 |
| fenn | this sentence doesn't really work (not enough semantic content, maybe an example?) "The community needs to start with some tools, some resources. Then we can make some more tools with those resources, and give them to other people." | 20:16 |
| kanzure | hrm, that is kind of bad | 20:17 |
| kanzure | I was trying to get across the idea that we can bootstrap the community via tooling ourselves up | 20:17 |
| kanzure | and then by installing more labs by either shipping tools or giving out instructions and where to get the parts, we could make it into a loop | 20:17 |
| kanzure | erm, loop | 20:17 |
| fenn | right, but the reader doesnt know that, they might misinterpret it as saying 'free lunch for everyone' | 20:17 |
| kanzure | as in the way that we download the debian distro | 20:17 |
| kanzure | ah | 20:17 |
| kanzure | that's a good point | 20:17 |
| kanzure | really it's a matter of who we want to give it to *until* we get SR going | 20:18 |
| kanzure | but at the same time | 20:18 |
| kanzure | if somebody wants to copy the information and do it themselves | 20:18 |
| kanzure | that's very easy for them to do. | 20:18 |
| fenn | human-assisted self replication is close enough | 20:18 |
| * fenn dons his honeybee outfit | 20:18 | |
| kanzure | hah | 20:18 |
| kanzure | good analogy | 20:20 |
| fenn | heh 'financial obesity' | 20:21 |
| kanzure | kfljadlkfjdkl | 20:35 |
| kanzure | I did not need to learn how much money the HS peers earned | 20:35 |
| kanzure | a friend just got back from the 'awards ceremony' | 20:35 |
| kanzure | where they announce scholarships, awards, money, grants, etc., that students at the high school have received | 20:35 |
| kanzure | just fyi, I've seen not a single cent or sign of recognition from anybody whatsoever, and I'm definitely "up there" when in it comes to the numbers | 20:36 |
| kanzure | so I've learned that a certain person got $500k + recommendation from Bush, | 20:36 |
| kanzure | another guy got $50k, | 20:36 |
| kanzure | didn't need to learn this. | 20:36 |
| kanzure | I wish them well, but :-/ | 20:36 |
| kanzure | http://youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo (the end of the life of brian) | 20:36 |
| fenn | i dont really get scare-mongering like this http://www.marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm | 20:49 |
| fenn | as if "joblessness" is the worst thing that could possibly happen to someone | 20:49 |
| fenn | $500k out of high school? really? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | yes | 20:51 |
| fenn | how does that work? | 20:51 |
| kanzure | no fucking clue | 20:52 |
| kanzure | is it his ability to process information? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | no, not really | 20:52 |
| kanzure | is it his ability to do good projects? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | he did nothing like that | 20:52 |
| kanzure | so what are they funding there? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | the military, I guess. | 20:52 |
| fenn | what was the money for/from? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | for west point. | 20:53 |
| fenn | is that how much tuition costs? | 20:53 |
| kanzure | from something - whatever it was, he was endorsed by the president | 20:53 |
| kanzure | no, but let me double check | 20:53 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://admissions.usma.edu/MoreInfo/obligations.cfm | 20:56 |
| kanzure | tuition is free | 20:56 |
| kanzure | do you know how much we could get done with $500k ? | 20:59 |
| fenn | hmm i doubt that "initial deposit" is $500k either | 20:59 |
| fenn | you should ask him what the money is for | 20:59 |
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| kanzure | yes, I suppose I should | 21:00 |
| kanzure | the valedictorian also got $50k or $100k, I don't know which | 21:01 |
| kanzure | he flies around the world in jets to go to skiing competitions. | 21:01 |
| kanzure | so is typically not in school | 21:01 |
| kanzure | but somehow still maintains two women | 21:02 |
| fenn | well, that should be obvious enough | 21:02 |
| kanzure | hm? | 21:02 |
| kanzure | smart enough to maintain his women, I guess | 21:03 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/cheat_sheet_writing.pdf <--- fallacious arguments | 21:12 |
| ybit | heh, i <3 the life of brian :) | 21:43 |
| ybit | ..the movie | 21:43 |
| Vedestin | not bryan | 21:51 |
| kanzure | heh | 21:51 |
| kanzure | silly new email dumped on the mailing list re: intentional programming | 22:30 |
| fenn | looks like you've been busy today | 22:35 |
| kanzure | http://cns.utexas.edu/current_students/degrees/ | 23:12 |
| kanzure | Natural Sciences students initially enroll in an entry-level major. After completing some of the courses required for the degree, each student selects the major and the option he or she plans to pursue." | 23:12 |
| kanzure | "For example, all applicants interested in a career in physics apply to the entry-level Physics major. | 23:12 |
| kanzure | After completing entry-level courses, the student chooses to pursue either the Bachelor of Arts in Physics or the Bachelor of Science in Physics with an option in physics, computation, radiation physics, space sciences, or teaching. | 23:12 |
| kanzure | so basically they are forcing you down a specific path | 23:12 |
| kanzure | with only a limited number of options | 23:12 |
| kanzure | as opposed to me paying for the classes that I want to take | 23:12 |
| kanzure | why can't I just take the classes I want to take? | 23:12 |
| kanzure | my dad took a writing class at UT last year, | 23:13 |
| kanzure | so why can't I just pile on classes like that ? | 23:13 |
| Vedestin | they're not forcing you | 23:13 |
| Vedestin | they're just saying that's what you have to do in order for them to give you that degree | 23:14 |
| kanzure | why do I want a degree ? | 23:14 |
| kanzure | heh, they actually have 'interdiscplinary science' as a narrow, degree. | 23:15 |
| kanzure | http://www.utexas.edu/student/registrar/catalogs/ug06-08/ch11/ch11e.html#Bachelor.of.Science.in.Interdisciplinary.Science | 23:15 |
| kanzure | oh, it's only for teachers | 23:16 |
| Vedestin | you don't want a degree | 23:20 |
| Vedestin | you should be able to study any course you want as a non award student | 23:20 |
| kanzure | this is at least four years of "dad pays for your education, take as much as you want" | 23:21 |
| Vedestin | just do science man | 23:21 |
| fenn | kanzure: you want a degree because otherwise you never graduate | 23:22 |
| fenn | and that is worse than not going to college mmkay? | 23:22 |
| kanzure | oh, you have to have a degree to graduate? | 23:22 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:22 |
| Vedestin | yes, yes you do | 23:22 |
| Vedestin | but, if you don't want a degree you don't have to study in any structured way | 23:23 |
| Vedestin | actually, you can get an arts degree by not studying in any structured way | 23:23 |
| Vedestin | you just look at it at the end, identify the common trend and say that's your major | 23:23 |
| kanzure | yes, but they want you to follow the exact curriculum | 23:24 |
| fenn | usually with 'individualized major programs' you have to explain what you're doing first, not figure out what you did | 23:24 |
| kanzure | but UT doesn't have these | 23:26 |
| Vedestin | come study over here, it's much more free | 23:27 |
| kanzure | where? | 23:28 |
| Vedestin | australia | 23:28 |
| kanzure | oh man | 23:29 |
| kanzure | we're so racist | 23:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.utexas.edu/ | 23:29 |
| kanzure | Black Engineers student group wins award | 23:29 |
| kanzure | Chapter of National Society of Black Engineers named "National Large Chapter of the Year." | 23:29 |
| kanzure | "Well. We couldn't think of anything else to award them. And they're big. And black. So." | 23:29 |
| fenn | it's not "racist" it's "affirmative" ;) | 23:29 |
| kanzure | ah, right | 23:29 |
| fenn | maybe the large part is like little leage softball | 23:30 |
| fenn | to make competition fair, so large chapters arent competing with small chapters | 23:31 |
| fenn | i mean, that's the point of societies, to win awards, right? | 23:31 |
| fenn | maybe we could include awards in skdb | 23:32 |
| fenn | societal engineering society award | 23:32 |
| kanzure | oh boy | 23:33 |
| kanzure | http://registrar.utexas.edu/students/degrees/ida/ | 23:33 |
| kanzure | "online degree audit" | 23:33 |
| kanzure | in other words, it's a logic state system | 23:33 |
| kanzure | "You fail, you don't pass go - stick to the rules" | 23:33 |
| kanzure | fenn: sure, but it has to mean something to other peopl | 23:33 |
| kanzure | *people | 23:33 |
| Vedestin | we don't do that | 23:34 |
| kanzure | I mean, internally, we know who does good work | 23:34 |
| kanzure | 'IDA is the interactive degree audit system for students pursuing degrees at UT Austin. Using IDA you may view and request degree audits online, project how future courses might apply toward your degree, and locate advising resources.' | 23:34 |
| kanzure | 'Prospective students may use the IDA planner to estimate how courses from other institutions might apply to UT Austin degrees. IDA provides a computer-generated report of your progress toward completion of the requirements for a specific program at UT Austin. If changes to your record have occurred since your last audit was run, you must create a new audit for those changes to be included. | 23:34 |
| kanzure | this is retarded | 23:34 |
| Vedestin | a lot of universities do similar things kanzure | 23:34 |
| fenn | kanzure: lol at IU when you go to your "academic advisor" they just sit down and play the computer game and talk to you | 23:34 |
| kanzure | computer game? | 23:34 |
| kanzure | "Ah, I see this fits ... not." | 23:34 |
| kanzure | that thing? | 23:35 |
| fenn | right | 23:35 |
| fenn | i mean they just open up your entry in the db and run the logic engine with you | 23:35 |
| fenn | but you can do the same thing without having to make an appointment etc | 23:35 |
| kanzure | retarded | 23:35 |
| fenn | yeah and that was the "honors" advisor, apparently the normal ones are even worse | 23:36 |
| fenn | i mean, there's nothing wrong with a computerized requirements checker, but come on, at least gimme something in return for those $k's | 23:37 |
| kanzure | http://cns.utexas.edu/students/advising/frequently_asked_questions.asp "there will be no questions" | 23:37 |
| Vedestin | lol | 23:37 |
| Vedestin | sounds like great fun | 23:37 |
| Vedestin | NO QUESTIONS! ONLY LECTURES! | 23:38 |
| Vedestin | why are you going to Texas, kanzure | 23:38 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: I was accepted only by two schools, Wisconsin and Texas. | 23:38 |
| Vedestin | what's wrong with your grades? | 23:38 |
| kanzure | my grades are fine | 23:38 |
| kanzure | they are fantastic | 23:38 |
| Vedestin | then why didn't they accept you? | 23:38 |
| kanzure | I applied all over the place | 23:38 |
| kanzure | who? | 23:38 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/school/edu.html | 23:39 |
| Vedestin | the better schools | 23:39 |
| kanzure | dunno :) | 23:39 |
| kanzure | maybe it's because I'm white | 23:39 |
| Vedestin | well, you don't seem like an incapable sort of student, i don't know why they wouldn't want to have you | 23:39 |
| fenn | wouldnt it be nice if they said why | 23:39 |
| Vedestin | could be | 23:39 |
| kanzure | and didn't do a bagjillion community service activities | 23:39 |
| kanzure | fenn: same with women | 23:39 |
| kanzure | you will never, ever be told 'why' | 23:39 |
| Vedestin | we don't do that here... | 23:39 |
| fenn | most women dont know why | 23:39 |
| Vedestin | we have an admission index | 23:39 |
| fenn | otherwise they probably wouldnt stick with assholes so often | 23:39 |
| Vedestin | your academic results are calculated in to that index and you're accepted based on that | 23:40 |
| fenn | 'he reminds me of my abusive father' | 23:40 |
| Vedestin | some things have interview processes | 23:40 |
| Vedestin | like medicine | 23:40 |
| kanzure | basically I didn't do any community activity in the local area | 23:40 |
| Vedestin | so? | 23:40 |
| kanzure | and they don't count internet stuff | 23:40 |
| fenn | well duh, the internet is a threat | 23:41 |
| kanzure | even though I've been what I suspect has been a very helpful person | 23:41 |
| kanzure | right | 23:41 |
| Vedestin | i don't see why community activity matters? | 23:41 |
| kanzure | "what if everybody got free educational support! blasphemy!" | 23:41 |
| kanzure | well, I am active in communities, but it's a larger community | 23:41 |
| kanzure | not just the local carwash or whatever | 23:41 |
| Vedestin | you should go to sydney or melbourne | 23:41 |
| kanzure | or dog fair or whatever it is this month | 23:41 |
| fenn | also it's hard to explain the difference between chatting on a topical mailing list and chatting on some forum about bmw's | 23:41 |
| kanzure | yeah, I have a few friends in Melbourne that I should meet | 23:41 |
| kanzure | yes, that's true | 23:41 |
| kanzure | and 'chatting' isn't the right word either | 23:42 |
| Vedestin | go there and talk to the universities in melbourne | 23:42 |
| kanzure | I don't think they understand how useful an open source genetic engineering kit is | 23:42 |
| kanzure | or what it *means* | 23:42 |
| kanzure | implies, at least | 23:42 |
| Vedestin | go to monash | 23:43 |
| Vedestin | or atleast look at monash | 23:43 |
| kanzure | I should have picked Wisconsin | 23:43 |
| kanzure | it's an intense engineering/sci school :) | 23:43 |
| kanzure | good weather | 23:43 |
| fenn | heh hope you like snow | 23:43 |
| kanzure | kind of expensive, especially since I got no money from them | 23:43 |
| kanzure | snow is much better than 100 deg F | 23:43 |
| kanzure | I can't think in heat | 23:43 |
| kanzure | I suspect if I ever move north my IQ will effectively double | 23:44 |
| fenn | hmm | 23:44 |
| Vedestin | i bet austin has air conditioners | 23:44 |
| kanzure | it has on the occassions that I have vacationed up there | 23:44 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: yes, I live in Austin | 23:44 |
| kanzure | or just south of it, really | 23:44 |
| kanzure | and you do *not* live here without A/C | 23:44 |
| kanzure | 'not having AC' is an unheard of concept | 23:44 |
| Vedestin | i live in australia kanzure | 23:44 |
| Vedestin | i know what heat is | 23:44 |
| fenn | what's your electric bill like? do you know? | 23:44 |
| kanzure | I was very surprised to learn that people in Boston don't have AC installed by default | 23:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: it's $200~ | 23:44 |
| kanzure | >$200 | 23:45 |
| Vedestin | per week? month? quarter? | 23:45 |
| kanzure | month | 23:45 |
| kanzure | shit-processing is $60/mo, it's more expensive than the water bill itself | 23:45 |
| fenn | surprised there isnt more work on solar air conditioning | 23:45 |
| fenn | why? water shortage? | 23:45 |
| kanzure | no | 23:45 |
| kanzure | there is no reason *why* | 23:46 |
| kanzure | this place just sucks :) | 23:46 |
| fenn | it's probably just an austin thing | 23:46 |
| Vedestin | lol, they keep building desal plants here | 23:46 |
| Vedestin | it's piss funny | 23:46 |
| kanzure | no competition with internet cabling either, it's all Time Warner, so we get kicked in the ass a lot | 23:46 |
| fenn | that's something that seems so easy to change | 23:46 |
| kanzure | same with electricity | 23:46 |
| kanzure | how's that ? | 23:47 |
| kanzure | lay new copper? | 23:47 |
| kanzure | or fiber, really | 23:47 |
| fenn | give people a wireless mesh node, jumpstart the system by spreading them in key locations.. | 23:47 |
| kanzure | sure | 23:47 |
| kanzure | but who will foot the bill for the pipe that it has to be connected to? | 23:47 |
| fenn | charge them for access, silly | 23:47 |
| kanzure | you can't have a 100-person mesh | 23:47 |
| kanzure | but they will say that's illegal | 23:47 |
| Vedestin | you can with freenet | 23:47 |
| kanzure | of course, not if they don't know about it | 23:47 |
| fenn | wtf, start your own ISP | 23:47 |
| kanzure | fenn: yeah, but who will I plug into? | 23:47 |
| fenn | the fucking backbone! | 23:48 |
| kanzure | don't you need to be FCC compatible etc.? | 23:48 |
| fenn | um.. no? | 23:48 |
| Vedestin | for wireless? | 23:48 |
| kanzure | no, for the backbone plugging, Vedestin. | 23:48 |
| kanzure | where's the backbone then? | 23:48 |
| Vedestin | oh | 23:48 |
| kanzure | I mean, the major node that I need to connect to? | 23:48 |
| fenn | FCC doesnt apply to the internet does it? | 23:48 |
| kanzure | I thought so? | 23:48 |
| Vedestin | fcc is airways | 23:48 |
| kanzure | maybe not | 23:48 |
| kanzure | yes, but | 23:48 |
| fenn | if it did, then you wouldnt be allowed to cuss on irc :) | 23:49 |
| kanzure | it was my understanding there was a good reason why we had no local competition | 23:49 |
| kanzure | i.e., because the backbone here is all *owned* by the same company giving out access | 23:49 |
| fenn | ah, so they probably laid the fiber from dallas or wherever | 23:49 |
| kanzure | yeah | 23:50 |
| Vedestin | you could lay your own cable to japan | 23:50 |
| fenn | one could feasibly piggyback microwave transmitters on cellphone towers | 23:50 |
| Vedestin | hmmm, what sort of latency would you have | 23:50 |
| fenn | i mean, how much latency is tolerable? | 23:50 |
| fenn | 25ms to google | 23:51 |
| fenn | 86ms to freenode | 23:51 |
| fenn | i know nothing about microwave router latency | 23:51 |
| Vedestin | neither do i | 23:52 |
| kanzure | I guess the latency would be in decoding/encoding ? | 23:53 |
| kanzure | since it's all photons | 23:53 |
| kanzure | how long before a data packet would be transmitted? | 23:53 |
| kanzure | ah, a good test is to go find somebody with a phone | 23:53 |
| kanzure | do some triangulation and so on | 23:53 |
| Vedestin | or ask someone who knows | 23:55 |
| fenn | in switched packet networks you have to receive the whole packet before forwarding it? | 23:57 |
| kanzure | hm | 23:57 |
| fenn | or at least have to receive the destination part of the packet | 23:57 |
| kanzure | that's a good question | 23:57 |
| kanzure | 'packet streaming' ? | 23:57 |
| fenn | meh. | 23:57 |
| kanzure | internet-streaming is just streaming-of-discrete-packets, not continuous packets | 23:57 |
| kanzure | but that's not what you asked. | 23:57 |
| fenn | just speculating on where latency comes from | 23:58 |
| kanzure | my router. | 23:58 |
| kanzure | although I can't figure out where my current latency is coming from | 23:58 |
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