| --- Day changed Wed May 21 2008 | ||
| kanzure | http://www.experienceproject.com/ | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | http://experienceproject.com/ - they are aggregatting 'experiences' that people write down and share anonymously | 00:06 |
| kanzure | oops, ignore | 00:06 |
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| kanzure | blog updates | 00:36 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/~bbishop/cgi-bin/blosxom.cgi/ | 00:36 |
| * fenn studiously ignores that link | 00:37 | |
| kanzure | probably a good idea | 00:39 |
| kanzure | interface sucks | 00:39 |
| kanzure | oh, fenn | 00:45 |
| kanzure | I came up with an interesting way to uh, do the 'hook' for the article I was hoping to write | 00:45 |
| kanzure | since I've not really felt that it was anywhere near 'right' for a wide audience | 00:45 |
| kanzure | why not bring up something equivalent to the Manhatten Project as an analogy? the Manhatten Project is commonly held in public perception as a 'very massive, very awesome feat' | 00:45 |
| kanzure | but it's also govt + funded + => nuketech / destruction, which isn't the point of anything related to skdb | 00:46 |
| fenn | the _hy-u-o-_ook_-kuh_ | 00:49 |
| fenn | i think manhattan project has been flogged to death in these types of discussions, and not very appropriate either since it's a distributed, basically non-funded effort | 00:49 |
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| fenn | above mispronunciation from 'cats cradle' courtesy of 13130 books collection | 00:50 |
| fenn | having all the books you've ever read and more in a searchable format on your hard drive is awesome | 00:50 |
| fenn | stupid pdf's | 00:51 |
| kanzure | heh | 00:52 |
| kanzure | some stupid pdfs are plaintext | 00:52 |
| fenn | i had to use 'pdftotext' on this one, why can't they at least name all the commands similarly.. hrmph | 00:53 |
| fenn | so, i've read about a million essays where some nerd is whining about how a concerted manhattan project in <insert project here> would change the world | 00:55 |
| fenn | mostly space AI and anti-aging | 00:55 |
| fenn | it's not that they're wrong, but obviously it's not the way to get funding | 00:56 |
| kanzure | hrm | 00:57 |
| kanzure | well, it's a social aggregation project | 00:57 |
| kanzure | I don't know how to describe that. | 00:57 |
| fenn | what's the intended audience? | 00:58 |
| kanzure | maybe starting off with "This is completely new, there's nothing really like this, sorry -- tough, bite my ass." wouldn't be too bad? | 00:58 |
| kanzure | well, there's the Sirius H+ magazine | 00:58 |
| kanzure | for transhumanism, sort of, but I think Sirius has a broader context in mind than just transhumanism | 00:58 |
| fenn | 'just transhumanism' eh | 00:58 |
| kanzure | well, probably a magazine about tech updates and developments | 00:59 |
| fenn | i'm not entirely sure it's a totally new idea, just a new way to look at it? | 00:59 |
| kanzure | he doesn't seem like the type of guy to just dump a bunch of guys masturbating each other | 00:59 |
| kanzure | if it's a new way, then what was the old way? | 00:59 |
| fenn | expert system AI coded by some research institute | 00:59 |
| kanzure | no, this isn't a spiell against ai though | 01:00 |
| kanzure | is it? | 01:00 |
| kanzure | I mean, it's easy to hate on ai :) | 01:00 |
| fenn | eh? i dunno, it's an expert system | 01:00 |
| kanzure | hah, a different type of expert system | 01:00 |
| kanzure | where anybody becomes an expert [sort of] | 01:00 |
| fenn | right | 01:00 |
| kanzure | certification in the mail within 2 to 3 weeks? | 01:00 |
| fenn | we could ordain people as popes | 01:01 |
| fenn | pope of inflatable solar collectors | 01:01 |
| fenn | pope of paper bicycles | 01:02 |
| fenn | origami bicycle? | 01:02 |
| kanzure | would origami bicycles be | 01:02 |
| kanzure | I don't even know how to ask this, | 01:02 |
| fenn | i bet you could evolve one | 01:02 |
| kanzure | evolvable origami ? what would the GA be like? | 01:03 |
| fenn | a GA that folds paper | 01:03 |
| fenn | origami strikes me a lot like protein folding | 01:03 |
| kanzure | wouldn't paper have too much friction? | 01:04 |
| fenn | not if it's, uh, low-friction paper! | 01:04 |
| kanzure | heh | 01:04 |
| fenn | sry for the tangent | 01:04 |
| kanzure | right, well, | 01:04 |
| kanzure | too many ways to introduce it ... | 01:05 |
| kanzure | oh | 01:05 |
| fenn | how would beethoven do it.. | 01:05 |
| kanzure | I remember now, earlier today while watching The Empire Strikes Back, I realized that I might just have to say 'screw it' and just make it an announcement | 01:05 |
| fenn | an announcement? like communist propaganda style? | 01:06 |
| kanzure | and an announcement basically sucks, but you just say "HERE IS WHAT I AM DOING. What it can do, will do, is doing. Here's some historical background. You can help if you want, but whatever." | 01:06 |
| fenn | ATTENTION ALL ABLE-MINDED HACKERS: YOUR COMRADES NEED YOU | 01:06 |
| kanzure | ATTENTION ALL MINDHACKERS | 01:06 |
| kanzure | wait | 01:06 |
| kanzure | ATTENTION ALL ATTENTION-MINDHACKERS | 01:07 |
| fenn | er.. i think we mostly need computer hackers at this point | 01:07 |
| kanzure | now I'm confused | 01:07 |
| kanzure | sure | 01:07 |
| kanzure | okay, that's an interesting way of doing it, just a community recruitment announcement | 01:07 |
| fenn | hmmm nah it sucks | 01:07 |
| kanzure | why's that? | 01:07 |
| fenn | it's boring | 01:08 |
| kanzure | I mean, it's a social project, no? | 01:08 |
| fenn | it would make it easier to fend off accusations of being communist, just be like "yeah, whatever man" | 01:09 |
| kanzure | haha, communist :) | 01:10 |
| kanzure | yes, we'll make everybody show up to work for 9 hours a day | 01:10 |
| kanzure | and read a questionable news-source | 01:10 |
| kanzure | hail hitler? other random memes to confabulate with communism, etc. | 01:10 |
| kanzure | *Heil | 01:10 |
| kanzure | now an introduction | 01:11 |
| fenn | i like fernhout's "achieving a star-trek society" | 01:11 |
| kanzure | there are accusations out there on the net about Star Trek being communist | 01:11 |
| kanzure | even though they are post-scarcity, they still fly around in a monopolistic federation, that sort of thing | 01:11 |
| kanzure | but perhaps that was the best that Star Trek could have done, considering | 01:12 |
| fenn | we dont really see much of the federation society, just their military | 01:12 |
| kanzure | the Rebel Alliance probably wouldn't have flied well on cable television | 01:12 |
| * kanzure is obviously a Rebel sympathizer. | 01:12 | |
| fenn | i think all you people are totally immature | 01:12 |
| kanzure | hm? | 01:12 |
| fenn | squabbling over a piece of dirt | 01:13 |
| kanzure | what dirt? | 01:13 |
| fenn | what are you rebelling against/for? | 01:13 |
| kanzure | oh, I see | 01:13 |
| kanzure | no, I mean their group -- they were just a group of people that assembled more or less randomly to do something they wanted to do | 01:13 |
| fenn | is "Rebel Allance" something specific i dont know about? | 01:14 |
| kanzure | in Star Wars, | 01:14 |
| kanzure | you have the Empire, and the Rebel Alliance, the make-shift team of what seems to be open source advocates ;-) | 01:15 |
| fenn | "The Alliance to Restore the Republic (commonly known as the Rebel Alliance)" | 01:15 |
| fenn | fuck that | 01:15 |
| kanzure | yes, fuck *that* | 01:15 |
| kanzure | but luckily that's not actually emphasized in the movies | 01:15 |
| kanzure | off topic again | 01:16 |
| fenn | unfortunately a real galactic empire would be a lot more sinister and harder to fight against | 01:16 |
| fenn | not just flying around in airplanes | 01:16 |
| kanzure | :) | 01:16 |
| kanzure | especially since they have clone troops | 01:16 |
| fenn | clones, hell, mind-control and nanotech, man | 01:16 |
| kanzure | if you have a billion troopers per star system ready to be deployed within however long it takes to sling-shot around, | 01:17 |
| kanzure | well, nanotech wasn't assumed, although mindtech is an interesting alternative | 01:17 |
| kanzure | I'm sure that would be via mass media | 01:17 |
| kanzure | although if you have nanotech, why the hell have people | 01:17 |
| kanzure | seriously, what are they doing for you ? | 01:17 |
| fenn | well.. that would certainly make it harder for the rebellion now wouldnt it | 01:17 |
| kanzure | you have all of these fantastic robots and automated machinery, lots of intelligence shackled up in places like the Maw, etc. | 01:17 |
| fenn | vinge has these not-quite-nanotech distributed sensor networks called "localizers" that can measure your pulse, skin conduction, some EEG stuff, cameras, microphones. and basically do a continuous surveillance lie-detector test | 01:19 |
| fenn | it all seems quite near-term to me, whereas he was trying to play it off as some 5000 year in the future technology | 01:19 |
| fenn | they're basically RFID tags on steroids | 01:20 |
| kanzure | so an intro, do I want to go with something like (title: What's the community cooking?) and then something like | 01:20 |
| kanzure | "Since there aren't many good analogies or historical examples of what we're doing here (maybe we're uninformed), this is a community announcement for an open source, free, automated manufacturing project. That's a mouthful. Here's what we're talking about" | 01:20 |
| kanzure | yep | 01:21 |
| kanzure | I was in #wrongplanet the other day, and these kids are going stark-crazy about that sort of stuff | 01:21 |
| fenn | replace "automated manufacturing" with "personal manufacturing"? | 01:21 |
| kanzure | ooh, yes | 01:21 |
| kanzure | not just RFID, but the tagging databases, where autists are required to be noted in | 01:21 |
| kanzure | and so they fear that if there is a cure, the govt will force it upon them | 01:21 |
| fenn | maybe do the personal computer revolution spiel | 01:21 |
| kanzure | then what's the enabling platform ? | 01:22 |
| kanzure | there's not a single enabling platform to be analogous to | 01:22 |
| kanzure | "The computer is personal again -- much more personal." or something, heh | 01:22 |
| kanzure | I guess it's still based on computers anyway | 01:22 |
| kanzure | ah, okay | 01:22 |
| kanzure | "The personal computer took the mainframe and put it on your desk, your pockets. And now for the rest of the industrial infrastructure." | 01:23 |
| fenn | um, well, err.. read this http://fennetic.net/pub/emc/bfi/bfi-draft.txt | 01:23 |
| kanzure | ^ see last line I wrote there | 01:23 |
| kanzure | good? | 01:23 |
| fenn | yeah | 01:23 |
| fenn | cut "your pockets" | 01:23 |
| fenn | that's a good tagline if any | 01:24 |
| fenn | the bfi entry was limited to some pathetically small number of words | 01:24 |
| fenn | i'd like to rewrite it and flesh out a lot | 01:25 |
| fenn | but i'm lazy and stupid :( | 01:25 |
| kanzure | oh, the personal fabrication spiell | 01:27 |
| fenn | i dont really know how to convince a computer nerd that making stuff is cool | 01:27 |
| kanzure | to most people all of these machines and processes are "very distant" as if another world away, and in truth they are, but it doesn't have to be that way | 01:28 |
| kanzure | hm | 01:28 |
| fenn | i mean how can you compete with "this best of all possible worlds"? (points around at the ether) | 01:28 |
| fenn | heh leibniz | 01:30 |
| kanzure | well, there is a way to compete with that | 01:30 |
| kanzure | part of Leibniz's argument was that his optimism is no reason to become a sloth | 01:32 |
| kanzure | suppose this: if this is in fact the best of all possible worlds, of all that could have been possible and has now become existent, | 01:32 |
| kanzure | then what's left to optimize but the self ? | 01:32 |
| kanzure | 'optimize' in the sense of optimism, not necessarily Vulcan-let's-be-robots :) | 01:32 |
| kanzure | http://www.google.com/googlegroups/archive_announce_20.html the Stallman link is still broken | 01:35 |
| kanzure | Google has no "report a broken link" feature | 01:36 |
| kanzure | hm. Henry Spencer is thanked on a Google page ? | 01:36 |
| kanzure | guess I need to give Henry some more respect :) | 01:36 |
| kanzure | he's already the internet's most prolific spacetech enthusiast, but I've only seen him in the context of his replies to my thoughts on spacetech development on the arocketry mailing list | 01:36 |
| kanzure | he wrote regex? | 01:37 |
| fenn | sorta, i know regex incorporates some stuff from earlier grammar notations | 01:39 |
| kanzure | http://groups.google.com/group/net.unix-wizards/msg/4dadd63a976019d7 | 01:39 |
| kanzure | "Starting this Thanksgiving I am going to write a complete | 01:40 |
| kanzure | Unix-compatible software system called GNU (for Gnu's Not Unix), and | 01:40 |
| kanzure | give it away free to everyone who can use it. Contributions of time, | 01:40 |
| kanzure | money, programs and equipment are greatly needed." | 01:40 |
| kanzure | seemed to work for him ... | 01:40 |
| fenn | ah i see | 01:40 |
| fenn | also notice that stallman had already written a very popular editor | 01:41 |
| kanzure | emacs? | 01:41 |
| fenn | ya | 01:41 |
| kanzure | also, he had MIT credentials | 01:41 |
| kanzure | not that it matters | 01:41 |
| kanzure | but it put him at the right place at the right time, at least | 01:41 |
| fenn | his MIT credentials did not matter much, he was a "technician" more or less... programmers didnt get _any_ respect in those days (except for among programmers but they all worked at big institutions so meh) | 01:42 |
| fenn | so now you see where the meritocracy comes frmo | 01:43 |
| kanzure | meritocracy | 01:44 |
| kanzure | it'd be nice if I was more hostile | 01:45 |
| kanzure | it'd be easy to do a quick writeup and show how a professor at some institution as failed re: personal fabrication | 01:45 |
| kanzure | and say "this project deserves his place" | 01:45 |
| kanzure | [avoiding the issue of tenure] | 01:45 |
| fenn | hah | 01:46 |
| fenn | just make sure my name isnt on it ;) | 01:47 |
| fenn | tenure is such bull crap | 01:47 |
| fenn | they only give tenure to narrow-minded people who agree with the status quo, so that when they get tenure they'll come up with crazy ideas that would normally get you kicked out? that doesnt make sense | 01:48 |
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| fenn | egads "From 1983 to 2007 Spencer has posted over 34000 message to the sci.space.* newsgroups." | 01:54 |
| fenn | that's an average of about 4 a day | 01:54 |
| kanzure | Hi h2i. | 02:01 |
| kanzure | oh, ybit. | 02:01 |
| kanzure | there's another guy out there, Keith F. Loyd or something. | 02:01 |
| kanzure | Ketih F. Lynch. | 02:01 |
| kanzure | http://keithlynch.net/ | 02:01 |
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| kanzure | he's a bit of an oddball, but he's another prolific poster | 02:02 |
| fenn | good advice: http://keithlynch.net/weight5.html | 02:09 |
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| kanzure | http://www.kainic.com/search.htm $100 for 10 mg of kainic acid | 07:23 |
| Vedestin | yeah, biochem stuff is really expensive | 07:24 |
| Vedestin | friend of mine is doing his honours in biology | 07:24 |
| Vedestin | cost him like $2000 in dye to do his experiments | 07:25 |
| kanzure | http://neuromorphs.net/ | 07:26 |
| kanzure | hm | 07:26 |
| kanzure | guess I'll have to make it myself | 07:26 |
| kanzure | http://methpedia.org/ | 07:28 |
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| kanzure | https://wiki.brown.edu/ | 07:32 |
| kanzure | Huh. | 07:32 |
| Vedestin | don't make meth | 07:32 |
| Vedestin | the cops will raid you | 07:32 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.case.edu/ | 07:34 |
| kanzure | http://wiki.wsu.edu/ | 07:34 |
| kanzure | http://qwiki.stanford.edu/wiki/Complexity_Zoo | 07:34 |
| kanzure | heh, I'll subscribe to all of their recent-changes | 07:36 |
| kanzure | http://wiserwiki.com/Main_Page | 07:38 |
| kanzure | http://slork.stanford.edu/ Stanford Laptop Orchestra | 07:44 |
| Vedestin | whose benefit is this for, kanzure? | 07:46 |
| kanzure | Mine. | 07:46 |
| Vedestin | this is your notepad? | 07:46 |
| kanzure | Still trying to find some cheap kainate, or methods of synthesis. | 07:46 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: hm? | 07:46 |
| Vedestin | why are you posting all these wikis | 07:47 |
| kanzure | I'm pointing out a trend in .edu universities obtaining wikis | 07:47 |
| kanzure | this is something new :) | 07:47 |
| kanzure | and it can be exploited to our benefit very easily | 07:47 |
| kanzure | since wikis typically have an rss feed | 07:47 |
| kanzure | http://www.caymanchem.com/app/template/Product.vm/catalog/78050/a/z;jsessionid=DA97E651BC5C45D3A89A7A72C6779D30 kainate - 5 mg for $30 | 07:48 |
| kanzure | hrm | 07:48 |
| kanzure | http://www.nanocs.com/kainic_acid.htm 10 mg for $70 | 07:49 |
| kanzure | I wonder what it would take to purify it. | 07:49 |
| kanzure | http://kainoids.com/Product.htm $6/mg | 07:50 |
| Vedestin | you mean growing some of that algae, chucking it in a blender and extracting the kainate with some sort of solvent? | 07:50 |
| kanzure | aha - http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:173275 | 07:51 |
| kanzure | yes | 07:51 |
| kanzure | 'Domoic acid and its potent excitotoxic analogues glutamic acid and kainic acid, are synthesized by marine algae such as seaweed and phytoplankton. ' | 07:52 |
| kanzure | heh, I can do some growth tanks | 07:52 |
| Vedestin | yeah, then what's the process for refining it? | 07:52 |
| kanzure | "Development of rapid and sensitive high throughput pharmacologic assays for marine phycotoxins." | 07:52 |
| kanzure | 'Synthesis of (−)-kainic acid using chiral lithium amides in an asymmetric dearomatizing cyclization' | 07:53 |
| kanzure | http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6THR-45JYJND-5&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a1d43481bc28009aefc662d22536cb7f | 07:53 |
| kanzure | one of the search results - http://www.curehunter.com/public/showTopPage.do - semantic 'cure hunter' | 07:53 |
| kanzure | http://pubs.acs.org/cen/business/7810/7810bus3.html "Producers strive to bring kainic acid back on the market." | 07:55 |
| kanzure | crap. | 07:55 |
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| kanzure | uhh | 19:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.sustainable.gatech.edu/research/initiatives.php | 19:20 |
| kanzure | "Expanding closed-loops" | 19:20 |
| kanzure | http://www.fis.marc.gatech.edu/srff/samples/sample1.srff | 19:29 |
| kanzure | National Electronics Manufacturing Initiative. | 19:32 |
| kanzure | I find it kinda suck that gatech.edu is funding these things, | 19:32 |
| kanzure | but oh well :) | 19:32 |
| kanzure | very big names here. | 19:32 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/pipermail/hplusroadmap/2008-May/000538.html Powered exoskeletons, Iron Man and transhumanism | 20:24 |
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| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Neurochem_kit -- so that we don't have to pay companies for neurotransmitters | 20:58 |
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| JoeLlama | neato :) | 21:33 |
| kanzure | Hi all. | 21:34 |
| kanzure | So we can keep the neuro stuff in #neuroscience for the moment | 21:34 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:34 |
| kanzure | but all the other stuff can go here ;-) | 21:34 |
| kanzure | like the automated manufacturing tech | 21:34 |
| * kramer3d is eager to hear kanzure 's idears | 21:34 | |
| JoeLlama | I have done a lot of work on manufacturing equipment in my life.. I'm 49 so I'm kinda old :) | 21:35 |
| kramer3d | ah! | 21:35 |
| kramer3d | youre old O_O | 21:35 |
| JoeLlama | old enough :) | 21:35 |
| JoeLlama | mostly I work with amusement ride control systems now including hydraulics and pneumatic systems. | 21:35 |
| JoeLlama | it's an aspie thing for me I think | 21:36 |
| kanzure | oops, please excuse me | 21:36 |
| kanzure | trying to multitask hehe | 21:36 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: ah, good | 21:36 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: http://heybryan.org/exp.html | 21:36 |
| kanzure | if you don't understand it, please feel free to yell at me | 21:36 |
| kanzure | basically if you know anything about debian you'll understand what I'm doing here | 21:36 |
| kanzure | I'm doing it with all of my projects | 21:36 |
| JoeLlama | wow you are a busy bee :) neat | 21:37 |
| kramer3d | what in the hell | 21:37 |
| JoeLlama | self-replicating machines | 21:37 |
| JoeLlama | machiens to build machines | 21:37 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:37 |
| JoeLlama | cool :) | 21:38 |
| JoeLlama | I'm mostly into ferris wheels and flume rides now. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | it's a convergence of transhumanism, recursive self-improvement, future-tech, and building stuff | 21:38 |
| JoeLlama | I guess that's because I'm older. | 21:38 |
| JoeLlama | I like recursion | 21:38 |
| kanzure | I'm writing an article at the moment for the inclusion in a magazine later this month or year, I'm not sure which | 21:38 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: I like recursion too. | 21:38 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/recursion.html | 21:38 |
| kanzure | unless you meant the document | 21:38 |
| kanzure | which I like too, of course | 21:39 |
| JoeLlama | no I do a lot of programming and recursion is your friend :) heh | 21:39 |
| JoeLlama | Mostly into state machines and finite state automata | 21:39 |
| JoeLlama | it's my thing | 21:39 |
| kanzure | yes | 21:39 |
| kanzure | I like CA too | 21:39 |
| JoeLlama | cool :) | 21:39 |
| kanzure | in fact, it's my summer project | 21:39 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: what the hell ... im still on the first link | 21:39 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/In_vitro_liquidwars | 21:39 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: exp.html? | 21:39 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: okay, I can explain it to you, if you can tell me what you think it might be | 21:40 |
| JoeLlama | huh interesting | 21:40 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:40 |
| JoeLlama | hopefully you won't blow apart and end up doing amusement ride engineering | 21:40 |
| JoeLlama | :( | 21:40 |
| JoeLlama | heh :) | 21:40 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: nothing wrong with amusement | 21:40 |
| kanzure | even better when it's the ride engineering, sounds neat | 21:40 |
| JoeLlama | no I'm attracting to spinny shiney flashy objects.... I love blinky lights :) heh | 21:41 |
| JoeLlama | ah well... | 21:41 |
| kanzure | so, kramer3d | 21:42 |
| kramer3d | ya | 21:42 |
| kanzure | basically the idea is kind of like linux | 21:42 |
| JoeLlama | u r a b-z b | 21:42 |
| kanzure | linux's community has distributions for operating systems | 21:42 |
| kramer3d | mhmm | 21:42 |
| kanzure | like http://debian.org/ or http://ubuntu.org/ or http://gentoo.org/ - pick any of them | 21:42 |
| kanzure | according to Wikipedia, debian has an accumulative value of $10 billion | 21:42 |
| kanzure | and this is mostly because of the social aggregation that they are doing under the hood | 21:42 |
| kanzure | it's a completely free software project, you see | 21:43 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:43 |
| kanzure | so the volunteers assemble 'packages' of software from the internet | 21:43 |
| kanzure | and you download them with simple <apt-get install 'software name here'> and *that's it*, you're done :) | 21:43 |
| kanzure | program installed :) | 21:43 |
| kanzure | so, I'm doing the same thing with manufacturing, do-it-yourself / homebrew stuff, etc. | 21:43 |
| kanzure | it's called SKDB | 21:43 |
| kanzure | for 'socialized engineering knowledge database' | 21:43 |
| kanzure | this is mostly because the problem of personal fabrication and diy isn't so much the engineering as the knowledge | 21:44 |
| kanzure | most of the knowledge is locked up in proprietary systems and lots of dead guys | 21:44 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:45 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/SKDB | 21:45 |
| kanzure | http://oscomak.net/ for another introduction to the project (sort of) - it's basically the same project | 21:45 |
| kanzure | so, fenn and I have been working on it | 21:45 |
| kanzure | right now I still have to write up some documents and do some pythoning | 21:45 |
| kanzure | but fenn has successfully demonstrated paper-folding through the system :) | 21:46 |
| kanzure | the real first steps will be taken when we can wire up robotic arms that can make some more robotic arms | 21:46 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:46 |
| kanzure | or when we can get others submitting semantic standards etc. | 21:46 |
| JoeLlama | You certainly seem to have perseverative features kanzure... You aren't an aspie? | 21:47 |
| kanzure | I'm going to be dumping everything from my roadmap into this databse/repository, no doubt about it. http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap (of course, there's not a lot of datafiles here, anyway) | 21:47 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: Heh. :) | 21:47 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html for an interesting take on autism spectrum disorders. | 21:47 |
| JoeLlama | I dunno you seem to have similar features like I do | 21:47 |
| JoeLlama | okee doke I look :) | 21:47 |
| JoeLlama | I have my own ideas. | 21:47 |
| kanzure | Apparently I'm ADHD, the H stands for hyperactive, but really also hyperfocusing and H+ (transhumanism ;-) | 21:47 |
| kramer3d | so basically its self replicating machines via open source engineering ? | 21:47 |
| JoeLlama | both a disorder AND evolution | 21:47 |
| JoeLlama | I am also ADHD however asperger's trumps ADHD | 21:48 |
| kanzure | But I'm pretty sure I have aspergers as well - some of the anxiety [which I selectively take advantage of], the obvious babbling, etc. | 21:48 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yes | 21:48 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:48 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: but to get to the self-replicating part, we need lots of work beforehand :) | 21:48 |
| JoeLlama | if you have asperger's you dont' have ADHD even though you have all symptoms of it.... but that's just teh DSM-IV which I take with a LARGE grain of salt. | 21:48 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: let me tell you in concept it sounds very exciting :) | 21:48 |
| kanzure | so that's why I'm supposed to be writing some papers. | 21:48 |
| kramer3d | i wish u good luck | 21:48 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: :) | 21:48 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure do you have hypergraphia too> | 21:48 |
| JoeLlama | ? | 21:48 |
| JoeLlama | I have hypergraphia and hyperblabbia | 21:49 |
| JoeLlama | hypertypia :) | 21:49 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: No hypergraphia, although I seem to have hyperlexia/hyperbabblia. | 21:49 |
| kanzure | hypertypia, sure. | 21:49 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: is your python stuffs open source? | 21:49 |
| JoeLlama | you seen to type a lot kanzure | 21:49 |
| kramer3d | cause id love to read some code :D | 21:49 |
| JoeLlama | hypertypia is hypergraphia I think | 21:49 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yes, but it's nowhere near ready, it's just a few lines | 21:49 |
| kanzure | hold on | 21:49 |
| kramer3d | ok | 21:49 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: hypergraphia =~ synesthesia, right? The word highlighting. | 21:49 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure writing, typing, and talking all seem to come from the same part of the brain so I don't consider a big difference between the three. | 21:50 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: http://heybryan.org/docs/agx-get.py might be it | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure no | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | wiki hypergraphia | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | I also have hyperblabbia | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | It's how I live my life sometimes. | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | I mean, I talk regardless of the dangers sometimes. | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | I mean.... | 21:50 |
| JoeLlama | I talk to people and I seek people out specifically to talk to those people. | 21:51 |
| JoeLlama | and sometimes....... | 21:51 |
| JoeLlama | I get into trouble | 21:51 |
| kanzure | Sure. | 21:51 |
| kanzure | I mean, I've had my close calls too | 21:51 |
| kanzure | A year ago I was in my first chem class. The class was discussing melting points. | 21:51 |
| JoeLlama | But the benefits outweigh the possible (and probable) dissadvantages. | 21:51 |
| kanzure | Somebody spoke up and asked "What's the melting point of a human?" | 21:51 |
| kanzure | I saw the opportunity and ran with it: "What's the melting point ... OF A JEW?" | 21:52 |
| JoeLlama | heh | 21:52 |
| JoeLlama | oh | 21:52 |
| kramer3d | hmm idle on mac sucks | 21:52 |
| kanzure | that had to be one of the less good ideas I've had. | 21:52 |
| JoeLlama | yeah that would be a bad thing to say in a neurotypical environment. | 21:52 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure do you have anything against jews? | 21:52 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: luckily I am jewish (only because my mother is (only because her mother is (ad naseum)), so I got to call racial immunity or some bullshit like that | 21:52 |
| kramer3d | lol | 21:52 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: nope, not at all | 21:52 |
| JoeLlama | and yes, that was an incredable "foe pah" I dont' spell well. | 21:53 |
| JoeLlama | ok good :) | 21:53 |
| JoeLlama | you seem aspie to me... | 21:53 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: It was just something that had to be said, you see. Many of them were burned alive. :( | 21:53 |
| JoeLlama | You seem ADHD and aspie which I can relate to I am that way. | 21:53 |
| JoeLlama | I have symptoms of both (in spades) | 21:53 |
| kanzure | yeah, actually my great grandfather on my mother's side (the jewish side) was aspie | 21:53 |
| JoeLlama | I have learned a lot over the years to mimic behaviors. | 21:53 |
| JoeLlama | and become what I need to be in this neurotypical world. | 21:54 |
| kanzure | He died with Alzheimer's too, so I have that to look forward to. I'm the first male on that side of the family since him. | 21:54 |
| JoeLlama | But I still make mistakes... | 21:54 |
| JoeLlama | all the time. | 21:54 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure I take preventative measures against alzheimers but not on direcdt purpose. | 21:54 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: what do you plan on studying in undergrad? | 21:54 |
| kanzure | The inattentiveness due to ADHD keeps me normal when I'm aimless etc. | 21:54 |
| JoeLlama | Not that I won't get it.... | 21:55 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: Chemical engineering, http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/UT | 21:55 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: but I might switch to something else | 21:55 |
| JoeLlama | actually, I wish to prevent the type of death that my mother had. | 21:55 |
| kanzure | UT doesn't let me pick my own classes | 21:55 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: neat i reccomend EE | 21:55 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yeah, but nobody knows anything about EE anymore | 21:55 |
| kramer3d | huh? | 21:55 |
| JoeLlama | My mother basically her brain malfunctioned very badly | 21:55 |
| kanzure | by this I mean that there's no connection down to subatomic particle physics with EM fields and so on | 21:55 |
| JoeLlama | anyways.... | 21:55 |
| kanzure | so it's hard for me to understand | 21:55 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: whats that supposed to mean? | 21:55 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure lemme see if I can describe some of your features :) | 21:55 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: There's no way for me to connect it to my understanding of QED, so it's hard to understand at times. Just seems kind of ridiculous. | 21:56 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: But I wouldn't be opposed to it. | 21:56 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure are you intensely organized? | 21:56 |
| kanzure | I mean, I've done digital electronics before :) | 21:56 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: force yourself to learn it | 21:56 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: Hm. That depends. | 21:56 |
| JoeLlama | I do digital electronics. | 21:56 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yes | 21:56 |
| JoeLlama | Ah... | 21:56 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: Let's see. | 21:56 |
| kanzure | physically, no | 21:56 |
| kramer3d | i wish i could do double major neuro + engineering | 21:56 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure depends on what it is? I bet your file systems are well oroganized. | 21:56 |
| kramer3d | but i just cant fit into my skedule | 21:56 |
| kanzure | digitally, no, although I do hoard links into collections | 21:56 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: well, look at my bookmarks on my site | 21:56 |
| kramer3d | maybe after undergrad i might do something | 21:56 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/bookmarks/bookmarks-old2/ | 21:57 |
| JoeLlama | well I make sure I put my car keys in the same place each day so I know where they are... If I don't do that I will not find them immediatelly. | 21:57 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: neuro + engineering would be awesome | 21:57 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: I'd like to do computational neuroscience + mechanical engineering, or something like that. | 21:57 |
| kramer3d | ya thats my ideal education | 21:57 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure I an mostly NOT organized. | 21:57 |
| kramer3d | but right now it looks like neuro + math | 21:57 |
| kanzure | I have a list of the main classes in the engineering curriculum that I want to take - like the mechanical industrial stuff, the processes that are used in manufacturing, etc. But then the other stuff, like p-chem, I can learn on my own via reading the papers and mathematical models | 21:58 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: The majority of my ideas are scattered throughout 25+ megabytes of plaintext journaling logs, over the web ( http://google.com/search?q=kanzure ), and on hundreds of sheets of densely packed pieces of paper | 21:58 |
| kanzure | I use blank, white printer paper (8.5x11) and write densely in black ink | 21:58 |
| JoeLlama | I bet kanzure gets "hyperfocus" which he has periods of time where he get's so focused on a project that all time seem to slow down. He might think it's 20 minutes yet it's been two or three hours. | 21:59 |
| kanzure | I've been fitting 100 lines per sheet-side, and have a very large stack that admittedly I will never go through entirely :) | 21:59 |
| kramer3d | anything requiring hands on stuff is what id take if i was u | 21:59 |
| kramer3d | cause the rest u can learn on ur own especially maths | 21:59 |
| kanzure | JoeLlama: sure, time dilation | 21:59 |
| kramer3d | if youre dedicated that is :) | 21:59 |
| JoeLlama | yes seems like time dilation | 21:59 |
| JoeLlama | *grin* | 21:59 |
| JoeLlama | someone might even say your name and you won't hear them... your focus isi so intense... | 22:00 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: the [[UT]] link on the wiki there ... is evidence of dedication, methinks. I'm going through the entire friggin' curriculum before I show up for day one. | 22:00 |
| JoeLlama | you mnight get three days of work done in a period of several hours. | 22:00 |
| JoeLlama | That is a symptom of ADHD | 22:00 |
| kanzure | yep | 22:00 |
| kanzure | that's me, sure | 22:00 |
| JoeLlama | of asperger's I'm not sure. | 22:00 |
| JoeLlama | with some they have it. | 22:00 |
| JoeLlama | asperger's is an autistic specturm disorder whereas ADD/ADHD is an affective spectrum disorder | 22:00 |
| JoeLlama | but I've seen both in people (regardless of what the DSM-IV says) | 22:01 |
| kanzure | here's what I was focusing on today - http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Sustained_attention | 22:01 |
| kanzure | nah, ADHD is on the autism spectrum | 22:01 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: my goal is to achieve whats already shown alot in sci fi films and that is cyborgs :) | 22:01 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/intense_world_syndrome.html talks about ADHD in relation to ASDs. | 22:01 |
| JoeLlama | I think the only way to define asperger's is asperger's with or without ADD/ADHD | 22:01 |
| JoeLlama | symptoms | 22:01 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yeah, cyborgorization is neat stuff sometimes. | 22:01 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: Kevin Warwick and so on. | 22:02 |
| JoeLlama | kanzure I will have to read it. | 22:02 |
| kramer3d | i want a full understanding of brain so that i can hook up electronics to it and do whatever i want | 22:02 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yeah, you might be interested in http://www.innerspacefoundation.org/ - it has the 'first' cyborg (Kevin Warwick) and a few other guys sponsoring the IF Prize | 22:02 |
| JoeLlama | You type a lot on many channels I think kanzure | 22:02 |
| JoeLlama | you multitask it's what "floats your boat" | 22:02 |
| kanzure | the Innerspace Foundation Prize -- it's a neurohacking competition | 22:02 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: how well do you do in school? gpa etc | 22:03 |
| kramer3d | sorry if im being personal :P | 22:04 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: I used to do near perfectly, until I realized I didn't care | 22:04 |
| kramer3d | ok thats good | 22:04 |
| kanzure | that's why everything is digitzed on my website | 22:04 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/todo.html is back when I cared - it was my *total* todo list, day by day, minute by minute, I was an extremist, but also sort of delluded at the time hehe | 22:04 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: i was same, like junior year i stopped giving a damn but that was due to personal reasons | 22:04 |
| kramer3d | now i have realised i need to stop the lazyness :) | 22:04 |
| kramer3d | # | 22:05 |
| kramer3d | * I need to write a ToDo List for going between houses. | 22:05 |
| kanzure | well, the trick is to separate the laziness due to school versus the laziness due to personal issues | 22:05 |
| kramer3d | LOL | 22:05 |
| kanzure | kramer3d: yeah, be careful there | 22:05 |
| kanzure | that's a rather personal document | 22:05 |
| kanzure | I don't link to it on the web because of the content, really | 22:05 |
| kramer3d | ok | 22:06 |
| kanzure | Hm. we died out | 22:14 |
| kanzure | I was going to do some other things tonight, I can't quite remember what | 22:14 |
| kanzure | I was going to write a few emails, one pointing out the lack of criticism against Iron Man as a transhuman | 22:14 |
| kanzure | and then another one on the lack of molecular science backing up 'basic physical fitness' propaganda | 22:15 |
| kramer3d | kanzure: suppose i wanted to cut up like a bug | 22:23 |
| kramer3d | and put electrodes in it so it would control a little motor instead of moving its leg | 22:23 |
| kramer3d | how can i get started | 22:23 |
| kramer3d | lol i just laughed | 22:23 |
| kramer3d | XD | 22:23 |
| kramer3d | i cant believe i typed that but oh well | 22:23 |
| kanzure | well, | 22:27 |
| kanzure | we've talked about this on the mailing list before | 22:27 |
| kanzure | or something close to it. Hm. | 22:27 |
| kanzure | Anyway, the problem with cutting up a bug is that it's so small. You're not going to be able to easily wire up electrodes. And even if you could, do you have small electrodes on you? Probably not. | 22:28 |
| kramer3d | :{ | 22:28 |
| kanzure | The smallest MEAs (microelectrode arrays) are maybe 1/10th the size of a quarter, and they have at least 10x10 arrays | 22:28 |
| kanzure | so it's just kinda hard | 22:28 |
| kramer3d | i can get some $4 mice from petco | 22:28 |
| * JoeLlama says, "moo" | 22:28 | |
| kanzure | but there was a setup where there was an MEA hooked up to a cockroach | 22:28 |
| kramer3d | but thatd be cruel | 22:28 |
| kanzure | so you might want to look at that | 22:28 |
| kanzure | hah | 22:28 |
| kramer3d | MEA? | 22:28 |
| kanzure | yes, if you do animal research please know what you are doing | 22:29 |
| kanzure | MEA = microelectrode array | 22:29 |
| kramer3d | ya | 22:29 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/docs/neuro/ | 22:29 |
| kramer3d | ok | 22:29 |
| JoeLlama | moo | 22:45 |
| -!- JoeLlama [n=snork@unaffiliated/joellama] has quit ["Education is what remains after one has forgotten everything one learned in school --=Albert Einstein"] | 22:45 | |
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