| --- Day changed Thu May 29 2008 | ||
| kanzure | Constructional features of a 15-litre home-made bioreactor for fed-batch fermentations.pdf | 00:38 |
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| kanzure | http://www.academicjournals.org/AJB/PDF/Pdf2003/AugustPDFs2003/Gueguim-Kana et al.pdf | 00:39 |
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| Phreedom | /nickserv identify help | 12:12 |
| Phreedom | grrrr | 12:12 |
| Phreedom | ybit: ping | 12:12 |
| ybit | pong | 12:19 |
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| kanzure | Had a bit of a crisis. Hard drive was full again. Was out all day with family (graduation stuff). But I did get a hefty load of books. | 15:50 |
| kanzure | Acquired: The World's Greatest Fix (nitrogen tracing), Schleif's genetics and mol-bio, A laboratory guide to the mammalian embryo, Burnell's postcards from the brain museum, biotech, Flow cytometry, some protocols, Napoleon's buttons, and Phikal. | 15:52 |
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| kanzure | U.S. Plan for 'Thinking Machines' Repository | 16:44 |
| kanzure | Posted by samzenpus on Wednesday May 28, @07:19PM | 16:44 |
| kanzure | from the save-those-ideas-for-later dept. | 16:44 |
| kanzure | An anonymous reader writes "Information scientists organized by the U.S.'s | 16:44 |
| kanzure | NIST say they will create a "concept bank" that programmers can use to build | 16:44 |
| kanzure | thinking machines that reason about complex problems at the frontiers of | 16:44 |
| kanzure | knowledge - from advanced manufacturing to biomedicine. The agreement by | 16:44 |
| kanzure | ontologists - experts in word meanings and in using appropriate words to | 16:44 |
| kanzure | build actionable machine commands - outlines the critical functions of the | 16:44 |
| kanzure | Open Ontology Repository (OOR). More on the summit that produced the | 16:44 |
| kanzure | agreement here." | 16:44 |
| kanzure | fenn: ever read the pikhal books ? | 17:23 |
| nsh | pihkal? | 18:15 |
| nsh | & tihkal | 18:15 |
| Splicer | a friend of mine was into that stuff | 18:26 |
| Splicer | (i think the names come from an old carlos castandea book... new age stuff) | 18:28 |
| kanzure | The guy is somewhat of a legend for experimenting on himself. But I'd call him stupid for not making a neural slice setup instead. And *then* moving up to his own brain. | 18:39 |
| kanzure | http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal.shtml <-- the second part of the book I mentioned. | 18:52 |
| kanzure | The entire erowid.org site needs to be 'vamped up' to be more technically literate -- i.e., automated experimentation and toxicity testing, 'brain sandboxing' and whatnot. | 18:52 |
| Splicer | They are still remarkable considering the culture they stem from | 18:58 |
| * nsh frowns | 19:01 | |
| kanzure | nsh: indeed | 19:06 |
| nsh | coupla things: (a) erowid is a contributor-based site. the organisers have very little to do with the production of content. (b) the vast majority of the substances under their purview are illegal [ (c) pihkal and tihkal are acronyms, (phenethylamines¦tryptamines i have known and loved) ] | 19:06 |
| kanzure | nsh: These drug-takers, like from erowid.org etc., they don't seem too serious about their brains. The point is the brain, not necessarily the moment-by-moment experience or highs they get out of it. So that's why it's such a backwash culture. | 19:07 |
| kanzure | right | 19:07 |
| * nsh smiles | 19:07 | |
| kanzure | They are amateurs, but they aren't professional amateurs. | 19:07 |
| kanzure | Does that even make sense? | 19:07 |
| nsh | sure | 19:08 |
| kanzure | I think the 'professional' and 'amateur' aspects might counteract each other and you're back to zero, but that's another issue entirely. | 19:08 |
| nsh | i'm not certain what you meant by 'the point is the brain', though | 19:08 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Bioreactors <-- I posted an email. | 19:08 |
| kanzure | At least in my work. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | I suppose I might refer to goal orientation. | 19:10 |
| kanzure | but they do have goals -- self-wankery, right? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | I don't know how to characterize it; is this bad? And does it mean that my distinction is flawed? | 19:10 |
| kanzure | I'm *pretty sure* that injection of hallucinogenics, paralytic-agents, etc., is a bad idea. But hey, I might be wrong. | 19:11 |
| * nsh contemplates | 19:11 | |
| nsh | eating isn't for eyeballs | 19:12 |
| kanzure | is this a koan? :/ | 19:14 |
| nsh | something like that | 19:14 |
| kanzure | I mean, should I decode/decrypt, or just leave it at that? | 19:14 |
| nsh | what's a good idea for some people isn't a good idea for others, in the context of a greater pattern | 19:14 |
| nsh | subjectivity of expedience | 19:17 |
| kanzure | it's bad systems management practice to volunteer for a virus | 19:17 |
| kanzure | (I might point out that viruses are chemical, not biological, and so have more relation to these erowid.org's hallucinogenics than otherwise.) | 19:18 |
| * nsh smiles | 19:18 | |
| kanzure | Though the dispute between bio/chem in the context of viruses is rather silly ... they self-replicate, no? | 19:18 |
| nsh | right | 19:19 |
| nsh | like turns of phrase | 19:19 |
| Splicer | nsh: you're right.. and I can't find the castaneda reference | 19:21 |
| kanzure | So, I'd have to argue that the erowid.org contributors are wild and stupid in most cases (there's actually a few chemicals on there that I suspect have been, in fact, experimentally verified and so on, which is fine, i.e. water), but ... anyway. :) | 19:24 |
| Splicer | (.. n enjoyed the koan) | 19:24 |
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| kanzure | Woah, this is an amazing generalization of money-centric thinking: http://3trillion.org/categories/7-health-beauty | 19:47 |
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| Splicer | time to sleep.. cu | 20:10 |
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| kanzure | fenn, this was all a stupid idea. KDE is now incredibly slow. | 21:44 |
| ybit | kanzure: that was a nice message in diybio | 23:09 |
| ybit | it was a good read while bored @ work :P | 23:10 |
| kanzure | ybit: Thank you :) | 23:10 |
| kanzure | Oh was it? :) | 23:10 |
| ybit | would have been good even without work of course :) | 23:10 |
| ybit | that's quite a creative concept | 23:10 |
| ybit | have you been developing a bio lab @ your house? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | Have any ideas on what you'd use it for? | 23:10 |
| kanzure | Heh, perhaps ;-) | 23:11 |
| kanzure | I'm barely anywhere near completed, especially since I'm totally broke. | 23:11 |
| ybit | i'm hoping to get some materials for a lab soon with mi money | 23:11 |
| ybit | phreedom: http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/t/b5adcd35fd1072c | 23:12 |
| kanzure | You should read through the biohacking kit, there's a lot of really, really cheap ideas. | 23:14 |
| kanzure | For example, the centrifuge is my favorite at the moment. It's a broken bicycle. You peddle to make it spin. | 23:15 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: actually it makes sense to have an assortment of electric motors in any lab | 23:17 |
| Phreedom | ybit: this is more or less along the lines of what I was thinking | 23:19 |
| kanzure | Phreedom: I agree about motors. But again, I'm broke. I have some servos laying around, but not much. I need to go garbage hunting soon. | 23:19 |
| Phreedom | ybit: the hardest part is to make the DNA assembler, but the tech that can make this assembler will produce the rest of the lab as well | 23:20 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: naturally used ones work just as fine | 23:20 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: actually a used bicycle is harder to find ;) | 23:20 |
| kanzure | Heh. | 23:21 |
| kanzure | btw, the DNA assembler is just a giant inkjet printer | 23:21 |
| kanzure | http://bioinformatics.org/pogo/ | 23:21 |
| Phreedom | with a $20k+ price tag | 23:21 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/DNA_synthesizer | 23:21 |
| kanzure | price tag? | 23:22 |
| kanzure | We're talking about building it. | 23:22 |
| Phreedom | hmm... I thought they had a bill of materials somewhere | 23:22 |
| kanzure | Yeah, they do, I don't remember it being that high. | 23:22 |
| kanzure | it's in one of the PDFs. | 23:22 |
| Phreedom | I think 20k comes from their pdf | 23:23 |
| Phreedom | but it not a big deal | 23:23 |
| Phreedom | most of the cost is positioning system and control electronics | 23:23 |
| Phreedom | exactly what I'm working on | 23:23 |
| Phreedom | and it can be made orders of magnitude cheaper | 23:23 |
| kanzure | Woah, you're right. $23k. | 23:24 |
| kanzure | yes, I agree | 23:24 |
| kanzure | that $20k pricetag is completely outrageous | 23:25 |
| Phreedom | but notice that 16k goes towards positioning+electronic | 23:25 |
| Phreedom | I think I can get it into $500-1000 range | 23:25 |
| kanzure | $4k motion table ? wtf? | 23:25 |
| Phreedom | also they have inflated the price of a pentium III PC :) | 23:25 |
| Phreedom | high-precision stuff costs money | 23:25 |
| kanzure | weird, $450 for the wiring for the drivers / power supply | 23:26 |
| Phreedom | probably lots of cables, stands | 23:26 |
| ybit | p3 inflation, hehe | 23:26 |
| * ybit was distracted | 23:26 | |
| Phreedom | they had to buy metallic cases and other stuff you could make cheaper | 23:26 |
| kanzure | Phreedom: So where's your work on that, anyway? | 23:26 |
| kanzure | right, they did it in a nitrogen atmosphere | 23:27 |
| Phreedom | where? in my lab of course | 23:27 |
| ybit | ..with a girl :| ..believe it or not though, she wasn't asian | 23:27 |
| kanzure | so they had a pretty tight container system going on there | 23:27 |
| Phreedom | I think ybit once tried to make me tell more about the project :) | 23:27 |
| ybit | hehe, more than once if i recall correctly ;) | 23:28 |
| * kanzure isn't saying anything, but "is now the new webmaster of" http://transhumanism.org/ wouldn't be too far from a truth. Now, how the *hell* do we fix this site? Ethics? WTF. | 23:28 | |
| Phreedom | ybit: more like 10 times | 23:29 |
| ybit | 100 | 23:29 |
| ybit | 10x100 ..anyone catch that? | 23:29 |
| ybit | man, i'm smooth | 23:29 |
| * Phreedom thinks ybit caught the p3 inflation bug | 23:29 | |
| ybit | :P | 23:29 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: I need a webmaster too :) | 23:29 |
| Phreedom | and a site | 23:30 |
| Phreedom | and an actually working device :) | 23:30 |
| kanzure | Heh :) | 23:30 |
| ybit | first, you need information my friend | 23:30 |
| Phreedom | working on the device though | 23:30 |
| ybit | blueprints | 23:30 |
| kanzure | But really, these guys have, uh, money. | 23:30 |
| kanzure | yes, we have those | 23:30 |
| kanzure | I have those, at least. | 23:30 |
| kanzure | or am working towards it, and know who to hit up to make sure I'm not talking out my ass | 23:30 |
| Phreedom | blueprints are not enough | 23:30 |
| kanzure | of course | 23:30 |
| kanzure | it's just that this website entirely sucks | 23:30 |
| Phreedom | you need blueprints you can actually use at home | 23:31 |
| kanzure | if you're a techie, your immediate urge is to click off | 23:31 |
| kanzure | yeah, that's true | 23:31 |
| Phreedom | and you need to bootstrap the process | 23:31 |
| kanzure | Phreedom: So that's where the automated manufacturing project comes into play. | 23:31 |
| kanzure | yes, that's where the bioreactor can come into play re: bootstraping | 23:31 |
| kanzure | *bootstrapping | 23:31 |
| kanzure | or possibly the philanthropical bootstrapping of apt-get downloads of the fablab/skdb | 23:31 |
| kanzure | but I'm not sure if I should just flat out assert a hostile takeover of the website | 23:32 |
| * ybit will bbl. me needs some veggies | 23:32 | |
| Phreedom | the site looks like a typical corporate crap | 23:32 |
| Phreedom | offering solutions for vaguely defined problems | 23:32 |
| Phreedom | with lots of fuzzy stuff intermingled with meaningless crap | 23:33 |
| * Phreedom quits bitching | 23:33 | |
| kanzure | yeah, exactly | 23:36 |
| kanzure | this is supposed to be 'transhumanism' -- i.e., the people that are hacking their brains and doing augmentation, ai, neuroscience, clanking replicators, nanotech, space exploration, etc. etc. | 23:36 |
| kanzure | but instead it's this crappy website that, somehow, is making more money than I do, by doing -less- | 23:36 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: they're doing more to get funding :P | 23:47 |
| kanzure | *for what* ? :-p | 23:56 |
| kanzure | they're not doing anything | 23:56 |
| Phreedom | kanzure: but where does money come from? | 23:59 |
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