| --- Day changed Sat May 31 2008 | ||
| kanzure | Okay, done with high school. Need to update my site now, or something. | 00:15 |
|---|---|---|
| Vedestin | how'd you go? | 00:26 |
| kanzure | Nothing to report. | 00:32 |
| Vedestin | good then | 00:32 |
| fenn | another fine product of hays county school corporation | 00:35 |
| kanzure | ugh | 00:39 |
| Vedestin | oh, it's that good is it/ | 00:43 |
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| -!- Topic for #hplusroadmap: http://heybryan.org/ http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/ http://heybryan.org/exp.html | krebs is now servicing the channel. try !help | 00:52 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [] [Tue Apr 29 18:54:31 2008] | 00:52 | |
| [Users #hplusroadmap] | 00:52 | |
| [ fenn] [ kanzure] [ nsh] [ Splicer] [ Vedestin] [ ybit] | 00:52 | |
| -!- Irssi: #hplusroadmap: Total of 6 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 6 normal] | 00:52 | |
| -!- [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup | 00:52 | |
| -!- Channel #hplusroadmap created Sat Mar 22 15:44:12 2008 | 00:52 | |
| kanzure | wb | 00:52 |
| -!- Irssi: Join to #hplusroadmap was synced in 30 secs | 00:52 | |
| fenn | power surge confused the DSLAM i guess | 00:53 |
| kanzure | fenn: Vedestin just linked over to a ted talk about 'open source economics' | 00:53 |
| fenn | link link | 00:53 |
| kanzure | http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/247 | 00:53 |
| kanzure | "So when you open up the paper and you see a new fight about intellectual property, it's not because of the technical issue, it's about human sharing." <-- Stallman tried to make this point. It didn't work out. | 01:14 |
| kanzure | I wonder if you can make people understand that point. | 01:19 |
| kanzure | They hold on pretty tightly to money. | 01:19 |
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| kanzure | http://benkler.org/ | 01:20 |
| fenn | i like the 'difficult sentences' wiki page contributed by readers of his book | 01:29 |
| kanzure | heh | 01:30 |
| kanzure | interesting person | 01:31 |
| kanzure | surprised I haven't seen him before | 01:31 |
| fenn | "the leading intellectual" heh | 01:33 |
| fenn | yo, leading intellectual, tell us what to do so we can scoff at it | 01:33 |
| kanzure | ye | 01:33 |
| kanzure | I'd like to be a leading intellectual, sounds fun | 01:33 |
| kanzure | where do I apply? | 01:33 |
| fenn | harvard | 01:33 |
| kanzure | Maybe I should just assert it. | 01:33 |
| kanzure | From now on, I am the leading intellectual in everything. | 01:33 |
| kanzure | oh | 01:33 |
| kanzure | so, in ##neuroscience, bohemian was telling me that I should be sending 'letters of interest' to profs that are doing work vaguely related to mine, even if I don't want to physically work at their labs | 01:35 |
| kanzure | I don't know how these letters of interest work, is this common? from your perspective | 01:35 |
| fenn | i think "intellectual" is something like "whipping boy" or "scapegoat", its someone you're supposed to ignore | 01:36 |
| fenn | i dont know anything about getting around in academia | 01:36 |
| kanzure | heh, that's right | 01:36 |
| kanzure | the spam filters | 01:37 |
| * fenn grumbles | 01:37 | |
| Vedestin | academics drink beer | 01:45 |
| Vedestin | and shit | 01:45 |
| Vedestin | and breathe | 01:45 |
| kanzure | http://www.bentham.org/open/toimej/index.htm Open access manufacturing engineering journal? | 01:45 |
| kanzure | 'at attractive open access fees!' wtf | 01:46 |
| kanzure | http://iciil.blogspot.com/2007/05/open-industrial-and-manufacturing.html | 01:47 |
| kanzure | http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Mechanical-Engineering/2-008Spring2004/Syllabus/ | 01:47 |
| fenn | hmm tornado sirens at 2 am | 01:49 |
| kanzure | sirens, outside? | 01:49 |
| fenn | ya | 01:50 |
| Vedestin | what triggers tornado sirens? | 01:50 |
| kanzure | people. | 01:50 |
| Vedestin | are they manual? | 01:50 |
| Vedestin | right | 01:50 |
| kanzure | oh, network | 01:50 |
| Vedestin | could vandals do it? | 01:50 |
| kanzure | anybody smart enough would probably value silence ;-) | 01:51 |
| fenn | no, looks like the storm will hit the north side of town but not me | 01:51 |
| Vedestin | oh well | 01:54 |
| fenn | better luck next time, vedestin | 01:54 |
| Vedestin | with? | 01:58 |
| fenn | destroying my underground laboratory using your soviet weather modification technology | 02:04 |
| Vedestin | ahhh | 02:06 |
| Vedestin | i'll get you next time | 02:06 |
| * Vedestin redirects his ionic heater | 02:07 | |
| Vedestin | *ionospheric rather | 02:07 |
| fenn | sharper image sells weather modification tech now? | 02:07 |
| Vedestin | yep | 02:10 |
| Vedestin | pretty expensive | 02:10 |
| fenn | "Sharper Image™ presents The Inflatable Lair" http://www.villainsource.com/lairs.html | 02:10 |
| kanzure | "Whether I shall turn out to be the hero of my own life, or whether that station will be held by anybody else, these pages must show." | 02:14 |
| fenn | marshallbrain.com turns out to be very pro-h+ and robotics, despite what i originally thought was 'scare tactics' | 02:36 |
| kanzure | oh shit, where's my stack of stuff | 02:38 |
| fenn | my hoard! where's my hoard! | 02:39 |
| kanzure | I was at a restaurant and left it | 02:40 |
| kanzure | should we try contacting Brain? | 02:40 |
| fenn | he seems very interested in open source development, but it looks like he has no real first-hand reports of what it's like | 02:41 |
| fenn | i think fernhout linked to his site, that's how i found it | 02:42 |
| kanzure | uh | 02:42 |
| kanzure | 'A manual for rebooting a crashed civilization back to 21st century technology' | 02:42 |
| kanzure | http://www.keepthelightson.net/tiki/tiki-index.php | 02:42 |
| kanzure | 'Forbidden - you have no access' | 02:43 |
| fenn | just bad webmastering | 02:43 |
| kanzure | 'security through self-sufficiency', yeah some self-sufficiency *that* webmaster has :) | 02:44 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20070416232103/http://keepthelightson.net/tiki/tiki-index.php <-- the problem | 02:44 |
| kanzure | why would you possibly insert a new user on page load | 02:44 |
| kanzure | oh, sessions | 02:44 |
| kanzure | http://web.archive.org/web/20061206001336/http://keepthelightson.net/tiki/tiki-index.php | 02:44 |
| kanzure | ‘It is necessary to any originality to have the courage to be an amateur.’ | 02:45 |
| kanzure | — Wallace Stevens | 02:45 |
| fenn | http://web.archive.org/web/20060515042017/keepthelightson.net/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Manual | 02:47 |
| * kanzure is more interested in the contact info | 02:48 | |
| kanzure | '' | 02:49 |
| kanzure | Articles: Civilization-in-a-box... available now! | 02:49 |
| kanzure | second result on Google: the Singularity Institute. | 02:49 |
| fenn | Alex Future Bokov | 02:49 |
| kanzure | http://www.singinst.org/ourresearch/publications/GISAI/paradigms/seedAI.html | 02:49 |
| kanzure | specifically Yudkowsky | 02:50 |
| kanzure | yeah, I've met Bokov | 02:50 |
| kanzure | in person | 02:50 |
| fenn | san antonio, texas; +1.2109490128 nwfarxr02@sneakemail.com | 02:50 |
| kanzure | oh, is that his wiki? Keep the Lights On? | 02:50 |
| kanzure | yes | 02:50 |
| kanzure | he just got his PhD | 02:50 |
| fenn | thats who the domain is registered to | 02:50 |
| kanzure | he also did a group called 'Transhumanism NOW' | 02:50 |
| fenn | is his middle name really future? | 02:51 |
| kanzure | he's currently: "alexbokov42" <f1r3br4nd@hotmail.com> | 02:51 |
| kanzure | yep | 02:51 |
| kanzure | okay, email sent | 02:53 |
| kanzure | stupid convergence - I was hoping it was somebody new | 02:54 |
| kanzure | I met Bokov at an Alcor meetup at Shannon Vyff's house. | 02:54 |
| kanzure | it's also where I met Sean, the UT sociology student doing web 2.0 development | 02:54 |
| kanzure | I think he's the only guy I've met in person, ever, who could top me in spitting out popular website names | 02:54 |
| fenn | ah but you've got more bookmarks! | 02:55 |
| kanzure | :) | 02:55 |
| kanzure | I actually don't have many bookmarks on social-networking websites | 02:56 |
| kanzure | hm | 02:56 |
| * kanzure is doing a recursion through WikiIndex | 02:56 | |
| kanzure | let me post what I have | 02:56 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/mediawiki/index.php/Wiki_index | 02:57 |
| kanzure | especially anything in bold | 02:57 |
| fenn | gah now that we have the internet and basically unlimited bandwith and page space, why do people insist on using initials in their references? | 02:57 |
| kanzure | tradition nonsense | 02:58 |
| kanzure | I'd totally go with a one-word name/identifier if it was socially acceptable | 02:58 |
| fenn | there must be a thousand engineering professors named 'C. Zhang' | 02:58 |
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| Vedestin | it is socially acceptable | 03:04 |
| Vedestin | madonna is a very well known academic | 03:04 |
| kanzure | Madonna? | 03:04 |
| fenn | the popular sex image theorist? | 03:05 |
| Vedestin | yes | 03:05 |
| ybit | "[Fri May 30 2008] [00:31:20] <kanzure>I'm planning on some automated cloning machines + automated education machines. | 03:06 |
| ybit | [Fri May 30 2008] [00:31:23] <kanzure>think stormtrooper" | 03:06 |
| fenn | her models have been conclusively disproven by lil'kim et al | 03:06 |
| ybit | i misread that as starship trooper | 03:06 |
| fenn | um, i mean, l. kim | 03:06 |
| ybit | and spent nearly 45 mins watching that movie before being disguisted and reading the wikipedia entry looking for the technology introduced in the film, etc... just realized that it was stormtrooper o.O | 03:07 |
| Vedestin | hahahahha | 03:09 |
| kanzure | ybit: Hahah. :) | 03:09 |
| fenn | ybit: the thing to understand about that film: it has no relation to the book, and it's actually a satirical comedy | 03:09 |
| kanzure | ybit: You never saw Starship Troopers? | 03:09 |
| ybit | never until now and still didn't watch all of it | 03:09 |
| ybit | fenn: is that so? because i truly was laughing | 03:09 |
| fenn | well i dont know if it was ever advertised that way, but it must be | 03:10 |
| ybit | that would make sense | 03:10 |
| ybit | it's how i perceived it | 03:10 |
| fenn | in starship troopers the little wet lump of flesh is the biggest liability of their combat machine | 03:11 |
| ybit | konversation and kopete need built-in spell-checkers | 03:11 |
| fenn | god i cant believe that fucking film is more popular than the book | 03:14 |
| ybit | kanzure: what did you write which appeared in Make? | 03:17 |
| * kanzure doesn't like Heinlein much, even though he did read some of his work. | 03:17 | |
| kanzure | ybit: the open biohacking kit introduction and link | 03:17 |
| kanzure | when I released the link. | 03:17 |
| ybit | ah, that did spread | 03:18 |
| kanzure | We need joshcryer to get in here. | 03:20 |
| kanzure | (2008-05-31 02:26:13) joshcryer: kanzure, Gingery machine, made my own homemade forge and all. | 03:21 |
| fenn | here we go.. getting better at this: | 03:23 |
| fenn | I just want to remind you apes that each and every one of you has cost the gov'ment, counting weapons, armor, ammo, instrumentation, and training, everything, including the way you overeat -- has cost, on the hoof, better'n half a million. Add in the thirty cents you are actually worth and that runs to quite a sum." He glared at us. #So bring it back! We can spare you, but we can't spare that fancy suit you're wearing. | 03:23 |
| kanzure | hm? | 03:24 |
| fenn | so, cloning is pretty useless in the starship troopers universe | 03:24 |
| kanzure | heh, | 03:26 |
| kanzure | in Star Wars, cloning was automated, with automated education | 03:27 |
| kanzure | and super-cheap manufacturing of the resources to arm the troopers, throw on some armor, etc. | 03:27 |
| fenn | how educated do you need to be to get cannon-foddered for some teddy bears? | 03:29 |
| kanzure | which one is the name: balter, baldo, balder, bolder, a middle name. | 03:30 |
| fenn | depends on the first and last name | 03:30 |
| kanzure | last name is of Polish descent | 03:30 |
| fenn | i'd say balter with no further information though | 03:30 |
| fenn | just because the others have silly meanings in english | 03:31 |
| fenn | and baldor is trademarked :P | 03:31 |
| kanzure | (2008-05-31 02:35:15) joshcryer: kanzure, the paper is entitled, "Exponential Growth of Large Self-Reproducing Machine Systems" | 03:32 |
| kanzure | I think that's Lathner. | 03:32 |
| kanzure | Lackner, rather. | 03:33 |
| kanzure | joshcryer thinks the skdb project is 'uncomputable' | 03:39 |
| kanzure | (2008-05-31 02:49:38) joshcryer: He can't do the whole of the project alone because the element seperation cycle, the IC manufacturing, all of those are going to require outside specialized involvement. | 03:45 |
| kanzure | (2008-05-31 02:49:38) kanzure: I mean, just saying "And then magic happens here!" is not a good design strategy. | 03:45 |
| kanzure | (2008-05-31 02:49:54) joshcryer: It is a perfect design strategy thank you very much! | 03:45 |
| kanzure | talking about the reprap nozzle | 03:46 |
| kanzure | fenn: #space please | 03:46 |
| ybit | suppose i should go to bed | 03:49 |
| ybit | 'night | 03:49 |
| kanzure | night | 03:49 |
| * kanzure is going through his photos trying to find an image | 04:05 | |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/camera/IMG_4400_3.JPG sister | 04:05 |
| kanzure | http://heybryan.org/camera/IMG_7709_2.JPG <--- Summary of my high school experience. | 04:08 |
| kanzure | That's what I was looking for. | 04:08 |
| fenn | so, senior year would be piles of papers covered in tiny black letters all in capitals | 04:12 |
| fenn | and computer monitors everywhere | 04:12 |
| kanzure | well, that was junior year too | 04:13 |
| kanzure | senior year would be piles too, although I don't know where the piles have gone, they're kind of "lost" and "absorbed" into the rest of the piles in the room | 04:13 |
| kanzure | I lost track of organization of school work in my senior year when I stopped caring | 04:14 |
| kanzure | joshcryer's main objection seems to be that "it all looks incoherent" | 04:16 |
| kanzure | so we need a way to convey to people that yes, it's actually coherent | 04:16 |
| kanzure | fenn: http://lists.extropy.org/pipermail/extropy-chat/2008-May/043812.html this is a good intro to extropy | 04:19 |
| kanzure | in #space, did my BS detector just click? | 04:22 |
| fenn | click clik clkckkkkckkkkkkchhhhhhh | 04:27 |
| kanzure | eh? | 04:27 |
| kanzure | beep, I mean. | 04:27 |
| fenn | get outta thar she goanna blow! | 04:27 |
| kanzure | heh | 04:27 |
| kanzure | but he did mention he does RepRap and gingery machines | 04:28 |
| kanzure | and he mentioned the extropians | 04:28 |
| kanzure | so I was figuring I found a good convergent source | 04:28 |
| kanzure | however, he doesn't seem to think that actually getting stuff done is a good idea | 04:28 |
| fenn | he's enthusiastic at least | 04:28 |
| kanzure | true. | 04:28 |
| Splicer | on starship troopers: there was a reason they sent people instead of just bombed the panets which the they easily could have done and later did. I think one needs to know why it had to be people to understand the movie. | 06:27 |
| Vedestin | why did it have to be people? | 06:31 |
| Vedestin | i forget the movie | 06:31 |
| Splicer | To me it's associated with ideas from the 30:ies... they are probably older, I don't know... it has to with that a country/society is forged throug war.. | 06:33 |
| Vedestin | ohh | 06:33 |
| Vedestin | i thought you meant there was a plot device | 06:33 |
| Splicer | no... just that the movie is actually very well written, but people don't have the referencepoints | 06:34 |
| Vedestin | it's a novel | 06:34 |
| Vedestin | and that would come out better in the novel | 06:34 |
| Splicer | some of the stuff is from 'mein kampf' | 06:35 |
| Splicer | like the idea that citizenship comes with military service not before | 06:35 |
| Vedestin | Through Rico's eyes, Heinlein examines moral and philosophical aspects of suffrage, civic virtue, the necessities of war and capital punishment, and the nature of juvenile delinquency.[3] | 06:35 |
| Vedestin | that comes from spartan society Splicer | 06:35 |
| Splicer | yeah.. i believe you | 06:35 |
| Vedestin | oh sorry, that's from the wikipedia page on the novel | 06:36 |
| Vedestin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_troopers | 06:36 |
| Splicer | the idea was that every generation has to have a war... if you had an enemy that was womderful.. otherwise you had to create one to have the war. | 06:37 |
| Vedestin | interesting idea | 06:38 |
| Splicer | starship troopers is full of these references | 06:38 |
| Splicer | for people who don't know about them it just becomes a stupud move about bugs in space. | 06:39 |
| Vedestin | yeah ok | 06:41 |
| fenn | the movie was about ww2 in czechoslovakia, read the director's interviews | 06:41 |
| Vedestin | pretty sure it's about bugs, fenn | 06:41 |
| fenn | why were they wearing plastic helmets and shooting machine guns then? | 06:42 |
| Vedestin | http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/19 Kevin Kelly: How does technology evolve? Like we did | 06:42 |
| fenn | running around on foot | 06:42 |
| fenn | on another planet ferchrissakes | 06:42 |
| Vedestin | czechoslovakia isn't on another planet | 06:42 |
| Vedestin | as much as you might have wanted it to be | 06:43 |
| fenn | you're being intentionally dense | 06:43 |
| Vedestin | facetious is the term | 06:43 |
| Vedestin | yes, i am | 06:43 |
| fenn | heinlein barely even mentions bugs in the book | 06:43 |
| Vedestin | you're talking about a movie | 06:44 |
| Vedestin | the book is not the movie | 06:44 |
| fenn | yeah, and the movie is about ww2 in czechoslovakia | 06:44 |
| fenn | the book is mostly about life in the military, but also about infantry combat in the space age, which is where the movie totally falls flat on its face for no particular reason except the director/producers wanted to be a bunch of dicks | 06:46 |
| fenn | i think he brought up the bugs just because he had this great idea about bombing cities with meteors and wanted to use it somehow | 06:47 |
| Splicer | Dizzy: My mother always told me that violence doesn't solve anything. | 06:48 |
| Splicer | Jean Rasczak: Really? I wonder what the city founders of Hiroshima would have to say about that. | 06:48 |
| Splicer | [to Carmen] | 06:48 |
| Splicer | Jean Rasczak: You. | 06:48 |
| Splicer | Carmen: They wouldn't say anything. Hiroshima was destroyed. | 06:48 |
| Splicer | Jean Rasczak: Correct. Violence has resolved more conflicts than anything else. The contrary opinion that violence doesn't solve anything is merely wishful thinking at its worst. | 06:48 |
| fenn | well, all i gotta say is that's not in the book | 06:50 |
| fenn | well, not the hiroshima reference at least | 06:50 |
| fenn | i say well too much | 06:51 |
| fenn | rawr | 06:51 |
| Splicer | Maybe, Paul Verhooven has his own visions... I like his movies.. they are usually very good social commentaries weaved into satire | 06:52 |
| Splicer | maybe not usually.. but some of them | 06:53 |
| fenn | According to Heinlein, his desire to write Starship Troopers was sparked by the publication of a newspaper advertisement placed by the National Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy on April 5, 1958 calling for a unilateral suspension of nuclear weapon testing by the United States. | 07:01 |
| fenn | so he would really have to be an asshole to put in the hiroshima reference | 07:01 |
| Vedestin | didn't he start a group in direct opposition to that group? | 07:04 |
| Vedestin | like they wanted to ban nuclear testing and he wanted to continue it or something | 07:04 |
| fenn | yep | 07:05 |
| fenn | apparently it was a "Non-notable minor organization totally forgotten except by fans of Heinlein" | 07:07 |
| Vedestin | i read it on his wiki page | 07:11 |
| Vedestin | not his | 07:11 |
| Vedestin | the books | 07:11 |
| fenn | ah i knew it! "Verhoeven admits that he never finished reading the actual book." | 07:16 |
| kanzure | Vedestin: Kevin Kelly is a good guy to keep track of. http://kk.org/ it's how I learned about how Gingery and ultimately fenn. | 09:36 |
| kanzure | I'm not impressed with Heinlein, for the record. | 09:38 |
| kanzure | Barely impressed with Asimov (except his work ethic -- 9 hours a day of pure typing). | 09:38 |
| kanzure | ooh | 09:55 |
| kanzure | http://www.wikiindex.org/Let.sysops.be instead of NPOV it's ntPOV -- new troll point of view. | 09:56 |
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| fenn | aka skepticism | 10:04 |
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| fenn | a lot of old things are no longer as impressive because we've been inundated with imitations and spinoffs of the original | 10:07 |
| fenn | lord of the rings for example | 10:07 |
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| kanzure | http://howstuffismade.org/ it's like howstuffismade.com except includes 'human labor conditions' | 11:09 |
| kanzure | even though it's about, uh, manufacturing | 11:09 |
| kanzure | https://wikis.nyu.edu/xdesign/mediawiki/index.php/American_Flag haha, human flags made by human hand | 11:13 |
| kanzure | brilliant | 11:13 |
| kanzure | (specifically, the Chinese) | 11:13 |
| kanzure | eat it | 11:13 |
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| kanzure | http://www.communitywiki.org/odd/MadScientist/HomePage mad scientist wiki | 11:35 |
| kanzure | hey, look, it's David Cary :) | 11:35 |
| kanzure | http://david.carybros.com/html/mad_science.html | 11:36 |
| kanzure | he has a list of other mad scientists | 11:37 |
| kanzure | friend of David Cary per the recentchanges - http://www.communitywiki.org/cw/MattisManzel - which cites lionkimbro ... hm. | 11:39 |
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| kanzure | http://carybros.com/ <-- impressive family? | 12:06 |
| Splicer | cool creature: http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/10/natures-great-survivors-water-bears.html | 12:16 |
| Splicer | (tardigrades) | 12:17 |
| Splicer | it says they can be frozen to "at -272 degrees Celsius for a couple of minutes, or at -200 degrees Celsius for days on end"... what would be the thing that hat happened in it after being frozen for a year as opposed to 2min in -272 deg celsius? | 12:23 |
| kanzure | extremophiles :) | 12:44 |
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| Phreedom | bad news guys: the other person involved in my project how is out of the game for 2-8 weeks due to injury :( | 16:32 |
| Phreedom | but we're going to finish it anyways | 16:32 |
| kanzure | Phreedom: /me still does not know what this project of yours is. | 16:56 |
| Phreedom | I'm 100% sure I tried explaining it at least once | 16:57 |
| * kanzure goes back to the logs | 16:57 | |
| Phreedom | it's a cheap high-precision positioning system capable of driving anything from a cnc milling machine to STM/dna assembler and other nanotech stuff | 16:58 |
| Phreedom | by cheap I mean no more than $100-$150 per axis | 16:58 |
| Phreedom | eventually can get as low as $50 | 16:58 |
| Phreedom | which means ATM/AFM can be as cheap as $300(depends on how cheaply you can make a vacuum pump, chamber etc) | 16:59 |
| Phreedom | it will be based on piezo motors and interfeometers | 17:00 |
| Phreedom | piezos can provide unlimited resolution. in practice resolution depends on the resolution of your position feedback system and control electronics | 17:00 |
| Phreedom | interferometers can automatically compensate for most of manufacturing and assembly defects but need very fine polishing on optics surfaces | 17:01 |
| Phreedom | this can be tackled as well with magnetorheological polishing | 17:02 |
| Phreedom | there will be two varietes of the system. one optimized for macro stuff and other optimized for nanotech | 17:02 |
| Phreedom | both quite similar in fact | 17:03 |
| Phreedom | it's just the choice of parameters/dimensions and electronic components | 17:03 |
| Phreedom | perhaps I wrote too much too early :P | 17:57 |
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